Past #23: Kieran Harper - delisted by the club (29/10) - will miss '16 VAFA season, surgery on ankle

[Tas]

Club has him listed as not returning from his ankle injury till mid December.

So, 2 week injury?

 

[Engimal]

He's so good when he's firing. I don't really understand what happened to him.

 

[nelroo]

He's so good when he's firing. I don't really understand what happened to him.

Its been mentioned before, confidence/self esteem issues outside of football for which he is seeing a pyschologist plus dodgy ankle/s haven't helped.

 

[Liam Boy]

One more season. We have to believe.

 

[Event Horizon]

His main problem is finding the ball.

His tackling stats are fine.

His main problem is his ankle.

 

[Deadeyeroo]

Seeing that highlight video wow that goal from the boundary line was something else. I'm sure I watched that game as I never miss one but I cant remember it. The boy is a serious talent and I really hope he can get back to his best. A lot of his problem is his mental state in a game. If he done all the 1%'ers and focused more on the basics I think that will give him confidence again, you can see him out there his confidence is shot.

 

[Dirty_11]

Hopefully he can get a decent run with injuries and have a real crack at it next year. Not holding to much hope for him with the progression of others on the list though.

 

[Black2Blue]

There have been a few cases of clubs making it known that they will rookie a delisted player and other clubs haven't snapped them up. I wonder if this would be the case with Kieran. Could see him grabbed by another club if we risked this strategy.

 

[KangaRooster]

Im sure the club mimics all of our hopes for Kieran, and won't cut him loose until they are 100% sure his potential can't be realised - he won't be lighting it up at another club (except in my nightmares).

If I could choose one player currently on our list to have his injury issues miraculously fixed I would nominate #23 immediately and without second thought.

I'm still holding out serious hope for our boy.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

Harper...

 

[R00StaR]

Watching those videos its hard to imagine Harps is where he is today. Geez he made some of those players look like a goose.

Hopefully its the club making a loud and clear wake up call and we give him 1 more year to come good.

 

[Johndory]

I'd be pretty surprised if north fully delist him but he does deserve a wake-up call. He started playing off hb in the vfl towards the tail end of the season and apparently showed some promising signs so hopefully he finds his feet again.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Not going to get anything for him, so keep him let him play out his contract. If he has a big pre-season he could be like a new recruit.

Would prefer to keep Harper than Garner or McKenzie.

 

[roodav]

If we need to delist and rookie someone to get list space I would rather it was McMahon

 

[Kimbo]

There have been a few cases of clubs making it known that they will rookie a delisted player and other clubs haven't snapped them up. I wonder if this would be the case with Kieran. Could see him grabbed by another club if we risked this strategy.

Stupid that you can't just demote someone without the process of delisting and re-rookie-ing.

 

[adas]

Harper CANNOT be delisted or traded.

I will completely lose interest in footy if I see him playing well in another teams' colours.

Despite not having played in 2 years, he is still my favourite player.

The medical staff need to get his F$%*ing ankle right, and let him play unimpeded. Still has a lot to offer.

 

[Black Diamond]

There are some fairly irrational and reactive posts in this thread, especially the one preceding mine. You aren't going to "completely lose interest in footy" if he leaves.

All the "effort" and "desire" in the world means nothing if he can't get the ball. A guy like Bastinac who is often accused of lacking interest is far more valuable to us picking up 18-20 lazy touches than Harper is getting it five times and making seven tackles. You don't reward effort, you reward results. It's harsh and a little unfair, but it's also the reality. Otherwise you might as well draft a fan to play, because you know the effort you are going to get.

The role Harper was playing for us in 2012 is most comparable to what Turner does now. A rookie listed player who is a little unpolished but has more awareness is giving us more. It also looks like Wood has some similar attributes to Harper. One is coming off a pretty good VFL year and the other looked like he should have been in the Werribee reserves. Upcoming preseason notwithstanding, who deserves first preference in 2015?

Sure, Harper has elements which make him worth persisting with. But you could say the same about Jesse White. You could say the same about Ben Jacobs if you are being fair, and Jacobs has actually performed in the VFL. For some reason Jacobs is a VFL player who is not up to AFL standard, but Harper who is barely VFL standard on form is an AFL quality player? Yeah, nah.

Fingers crossed he gets it together. It's concerning to me that he is yet to play a solid game for us. It's either highlight or bust with Kieran. A great tackle, goal of the year contender, bullet pass etc. He is rarely if ever just part of general play to make a linking handball or simple shepherd. I bet if we were to go and watch giantroo's goal packages from 2011 and 2012 that Harper is rarely if ever part of the scoring chain. McKenzie has Harper well and truly covered in that respect and has put in solid performances against good opponents. At 22 I wonder if Harper is beyond learning to do that stuff?

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

There are some fairly irrational and reactive posts in this thread, especially the one preceding mine. You aren't going to "completely lose interest in footy" if he leaves.

All the "effort" and "desire" in the world means nothing if he can't get the ball. A guy like Bastinac who is often accused of lacking interest is far more valuable to us picking up 18-20 lazy touches than Harper is getting it five times and making seven tackles. You don't reward effort, you reward results. It's harsh and a little unfair, but it's also the reality. Otherwise you might as well draft a fan to play, because you know the effort you are going to get.

The role Harper was playing for us in 2012 is most comparable to what Turner does now. A rookie listed player who is a little unpolished but has more awareness is giving us more. It also looks like Wood has some similar attributes to Harper. One is coming off a pretty good VFL year and the other looked like he should have been in the Werribee reserves. Upcoming preseason notwithstanding, who deserves first preference in 2015?

Sure, Harper has elements which make him worth persisting with. But you could say the same about Jesse White. You could say the same about Ben Jacobs if you are being fair, and Jacobs has actually performed in the VFL. For some reason Jacobs is a VFL player who is not up to AFL standard, but Harper who is barely VFL standard on form is an AFL quality player? Yeah, nah.

Fingers crossed he gets it together. It's concerning to me that he is yet to play a solid game for us. It's either highlight or bust with Kieran. A great tackle, goal of the year contender, bullet pass etc. He is rarely if ever just part of general play to make a linking handball or simple shepherd. I bet if we were to go and watch giantroo's goal packages from 2011 and 2012 that Harper is rarely if ever part of the scoring chain. McKenzie has Harper well and truly covered in that respect and has put in solid performances against good opponents. At 22 I wonder if Harper is beyond learning to do that stuff?

Harper AFL level > Jacobs AFL level.

 

[kangaspurs]

Harper AFL level > Jacobs AFL level.

But when you haven't shown that level in two years and don't even make the grade at VFL level is that really relevant? If one of those players had to be delisted tomorrow you would choose to delist Harper every day of the week.

There are some fairly irrational and reactive posts in this thread, especially the one preceding mine. You aren't going to "completely lose interest in footy" if he leaves.

All the "effort" and "desire" in the world means nothing if he can't get the ball. A guy like Bastinac who is often accused of lacking interest is far more valuable to us picking up 18-20 lazy touches than Harper is getting it five times and making seven tackles. You don't reward effort, you reward results. It's harsh and a little unfair, but it's also the reality. Otherwise you might as well draft a fan to play, because you know the effort you are going to get.

The role Harper was playing for us in 2012 is most comparable to what Turner does now. A rookie listed player who is a little unpolished but has more awareness is giving us more. It also looks like Wood has some similar attributes to Harper. One is coming off a pretty good VFL year and the other looked like he should have been in the Werribee reserves. Upcoming preseason notwithstanding, who deserves first preference in 2015?

Sure, Harper has elements which make him worth persisting with. But you could say the same about Jesse White. You could say the same about Ben Jacobs if you are being fair, and Jacobs has actually performed in the VFL. For some reason Jacobs is a VFL player who is not up to AFL standard, but Harper who is barely VFL standard on form is an AFL quality player? Yeah, nah.

Fingers crossed he gets it together. It's concerning to me that he is yet to play a solid game for us. It's either highlight or bust with Kieran. A great tackle, goal of the year contender, bullet pass etc. He is rarely if ever just part of general play to make a linking handball or simple shepherd. I bet if we were to go and watch giantroo's goal packages from 2011 and 2012 that Harper is rarely if ever part of the scoring chain. McKenzie has Harper well and truly covered in that respect and has put in solid performances against good opponents. At 22 I wonder if Harper is beyond learning to do that stuff?

This 100%. The posters on here hold different players to entirely different standards. Bastinac is a ridiculously superior player to Harper and Jacobs has shown incredibly more over the last two years yet some posters say these two should be dropped every week and just about every week there's posters saying Harper should be in even though he's shown absolutely nothing and it would be a massive kick in the teeth to players that have shown more at VFL level than him and havent been given a shot. I also don't buy the whole 'well he's not suited to VFL level but his game would be good at AFL level' nonsense. If he could do it in the AFL then he would be doing it in the VFL.
I really hope that he can get back to his 2014 form next year as at his best he would add a lot but he has been nowhere near that level over the las couple of years.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

But when you haven't shown that level in two years and don't even make the grade at VFL level is that really relevant? If one of those players had to be delisted tomorrow you would choose to delist Harper every day of the week.

I would take Harper over Jacobs. Without question.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

This 100%. The posters on here hold different players to entirely different standards. Bastinac is a ridiculously superior player to Harper and Jacobs has shown incredibly more over the last two years yet some posters say these two should be dropped every week and just about every week there's posters saying Harper should be in even though he's shown absolutely nothing and it would be a massive kick in the teeth to players that have shown more at VFL level than him and havent been given a shot. I also don't buy the whole 'well he's not suited to VFL level but his game would be good at AFL level' nonsense. If he could do it in the AFL then he would be doing it in the VFL.
I really hope that he can get back to his 2014 form next year as at his best he would add a lot but he has been nowhere near that level over the las couple of years.

You've been a great addition to this forum, ks, but I can't cop the bolded bit. And I am a Basti fan. Not so much Jacobs ...

I'm one of those posters who has pushed the 'well he's not suited to VFL level but his game would be good at AFL level' err, nonsense. I just think some (very few) players are better at the highest level and I include Harps in that.

And I suspect you mean his 2012 form. Yes, we all hope he can do that. I am holding the faith that he can, and what an addition to the 22 he would be if so.

 

[Kimbo]

If he could add some consistency, application and ballgettingness to the obvious talent he'd be a star, and I think us Kieran fans see this.

Of course the issue and question is "Can he add these things?" So far the evidence suggests no but his fans suggest the injuries and confidence are factors preventing this. Added to this is the development of the list over the past couple of years; the standard and competition for places has risen. He's got a big job ahead of him, even if his physical rehabilitation goes well.

I wish him well; there is no other player on the list who I'd rather reach their full 'potential' than Kieran. Let's hope hard work, improvement and opportunity align.

 

[kangaspurs]

You've been a great addition to this forum, ks, but I can't cop the bolded bit. And I am a Basti fan. Not so much Jacobs ...

I'm one of those posters who has pushed the 'well he's not suited to VFL level but his game would be good at AFL level' err, nonsense. I just think some (very few) players are better at the highest level and I include Harps in that.

And I suspect you mean his 2012 form. Yes, we all hope he can do that. I am holding the faith that he can, and what an addition to the 22 he would be if so.

Haha thanks for the first bit. Thats fair enough. Personally I value consistency at a middle, stable level level than a player who will turn it on for a quater or a week and then go missing for several, or a player who will stand out due to a freakish act but then contribute nothing for the rest of the game. Basti's probably not shown the same freakish ability as Harper but for the majority of his career so far (not so much this year) he's been a consistent valuable contributor.
I personally disagree, if you can do it at AFL level you should be able to do it at VFL level, and then theres players that can do it at VFL nut not AFL level (ie Anthony). I think it would be massively unfair to players such as Dumont and Wood who perform mostly week in week out at VFL level if a player that can't do it at that level got promoted over them.
Yeah, I did mean 2012 level, I've said before he was one of my favourite players that year and i really hope he can get back to that.

I would take Harper over Jacobs. Without question.

I respectfully disagree, as I said before I value consistency over the odd flash of brilliance. Also, I'd rather delist a player with seriously troublesome ankles who averages, what, ~10 touches a game at VFL level than someone who gets it 30 times a game in the VFL and was solid at AFL level towards the end of the season (excluding finals where he was poor). Regardless, after all of the conjecture regarding these 2 over the course of the year and their futures on the list I'm more than happy that both will be here next year as they're both young and if they both can be at their best i think they add a lot.

 

[Kimbo]

Just on the possession thing; yeah he does need to get it more often. But, at the same time, I think people may be basing it on some 20+ possession standard that isn't realistic for the sorts of role/s he plays.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I'd take serviceable 70% of the time over invisible 80% of the time.

Unless Harps can up his ability to be a serviceable player when he ain't being brilliant he will never make it.