Past #35: Aaron Black - 50 NM games - 64 goals - traded to Geelong for pick 92 in '16 trade period

[Moti]

Wood can't play key position and Durdin is two big pre-seasons away from having a body capable of play as a key tall. We are very thin on the key forward sat the minute

Have a look at Gunstan, not exactly a big boy. Wood has him size wise easily, yet Gunstan is considered a KP forward, even though not a monster KP forward.

We could run two KP forwards with Wood and Ziebell as other marking targets and run a very effective forward line. Just look at the Hawks.

My preference is 2 KP forwards, 2 mid sized marking forwards and have Maj as the ruck/forward.

 

[scooby1279]

NAB Trade Radio ‏@traderadio 10m10 minutes ago
.@NathanBrown_07: "I'd take Jack Watts over Aaron Black." Do you agree?

 

[King Corey]

Have a look at Gunstan, not exactly a big boy. Wood has him size wise easily, yet Gunstan is considered a KP forward, even though not a monster KP forward.

We could run two KP forwards with Wood and Ziebell as other marking targets and run a very effective forward line. Just look at the Hawks.

My preference is 2 KP forwards, 2 mid sized marking forwards and have Maj as the ruck/forward.

Hawthorn don't play Gunstan in a manner he has to stop and mark a skied ball while 3 opponents hang off him.

We would.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Hawthorn don't play Gunstan in a manner he has to stop and mark a skied ball while 3 opponents hang off him.

We would.

Bingo.

This is the exact reason why Wood was played on a wing (due to his running ability) our gameplan just does not suit those of Black/Woods types in the Forward 50.

Bomb it on the triple towers (sorry muricans) and hope for them to be taller than their opponent and clutch a mark.

Most of our goals on the lead are when we've got a free just outside 50 or one of our smalls takes a daisy cutter and then passes it off, we don't look for options between 50 and 35 as a priority.

Black should have been moved to a wing also but he was parked at HF, then in the VFL played as the tall forward of the team and went crap because he took the tall defender every week, FINALLY got moved to a wing by NB coaching toward the end of the season and his output went up. Came in at the end in the 1s and again parked at HF, lead all day but balls travelling 10m over his head to the goal square.

If we continue with this strategy AND Black stays, he must be allowed to roam the wings like he was in 2013.

 

[TooUglyForFugly]

Is that bad news for Wood, then? : nervous :

 

[GarnerSmash]

Is that bad news for Wood, then? : nervous :

Not really.

Wood has the capability to be a wing/half forward as well as third tall forward, and can play those roles, imo, better than Black. Wood needs to make himself a well rounded footballer (defensive running, consistent effort in the contest, team oriented) before he can play through the wing/half forward consistently at AFL level. If he does that he could be a real weapon for us because he clearly has some excellent offensive tools. Black is somewhat more limited I think, but at his best is a very good hit up forward.

 

[TooUglyForFugly]

Not really.

Wood has the capability to be a wing/half forward as well as third tall forward, and can play those roles, imo, better than Black. Wood needs to make himself a well rounded footballer (defensive running, consistent effort in the contest, team oriented) before he can play through the wing/half forward consistently at AFL level. If he does that he could be a real weapon for us because he clearly has some excellent offensive tools. Black is somewhat more limited I think, but at his best is a very good hit up forward.

=_=

Meesa cannot read. I took the sentence about the gameplan the wrong way.

 

[SpearPass]

All of those saying it's the game plan and our ball movement responsible for Black's drop in form seem to forget that in 2013 his contested marking was more than above par. Indeed, many of his goals in his two big games (5 and 4 goals against St Kilda and Brisbane respectively) were him clunking it in a pack or holding his own in a wrestle and managing to get the dukes on it. This part of his game has completely disappeared, as seen in round 23 when he got outbodied by a player half his size.

 

[King Corey]

Can't think of anything that may have affected Black's overhead prowess between 2013 and now.

 

[jess_1804]

All of those saying it's the game plan and our ball movement responsible for Black's drop in form seem to forget that in 2013 his contested marking was more than above par. Indeed, many of his goals in his two big games (5 and 4 goals against St Kilda and Brisbane respectively) were him clunking it in a pack or holding his own in a wrestle and managing to get the dukes on it. This part of his game has completely disappeared, as seen in round 23 when he got outbodied by a player half his size.

Just like you seem to have forgotten about his shoulder injury and subsequent shoulder reco?

 

[GarnerSmash]

All of those saying it's the game plan and our ball movement responsible for Black's drop in form seem to forget that in 2013 his contested marking was more than above par. Indeed, many of his goals in his two big games (5 and 4 goals against St Kilda and Brisbane respectively) were him clunking it in a pack or holding his own in a wrestle and managing to get the dukes on it. This part of his game has completely disappeared, as seen in round 23 when he got outbodied by a player half his size.

In 2013 he took 12 contested marks for the year at an average of 0.7 per game. That put him outside the top 100 players in the comp that year, so no, he wasn't really above par for that year. He may have had some good moments but the vast majority of marks and goals were made from the space created by the sling shot style we played and his agility and pace when using that space.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

All of those saying it's the game plan and our ball movement responsible for Black's drop in form seem to forget that in 2013 his contested marking was more than above par. Indeed, many of his goals in his two big games (5 and 4 goals against St Kilda and Brisbane respectively) were him clunking it in a pack or holding his own in a wrestle and managing to get the dukes on it. This part of his game has completely disappeared, as seen in round 23 when he got outbodied by a player half his size.

Bullshit. 90 percent of his marks were taken on the lead. He's not a body player.

 

[SpearPass]

In 2013 he took 12 contested marks for the year at an average of 0.7 per game. That put him outside the top 100 players in the comp that year, so no, he wasn't really above par for that year. He may have had some good moments but the vast majority of marks and goals were made from the space created by the sling shot style we played and his agility and pace when using that space.

So his inability to hold off smaller players now despite being able to do so against larger players two years ago isn't a diminishing of his form in this aspect? His best games were when he was taking 2-3 CM. I'm not denying his best abilities are in space and on the lead, but you need your forwards to be able to hold their own in a contest when it comes to them.

2013
Vs. West Coast: 3 goals 1, 3 contested marks.
Vs. St. Kilda: 5 goals 3, 2 contested marks (I counted three watching the highlights but whatever).
Vs. Melbourne: 4 goals 1, 1 contested mark, 5 marks inside 50.

2014
Same pattern, his games where he has the most shots on goal are where he clunks a few CM.

I'm not saying he needs to be a contested marking machine or was a contested marking machine. But the games where he was clunking them were the games where he had the most shots on goal. Averages don't indicate that, nor does not watching the match. Maybe it was his peers having confidence in his after he grabbed one or two out of a pack or on a tight lead (this isn't indicated in CM stats).

He is not a Petrie and he is not a Waite, nor is he a Lachie Hansen. BUT, you need to be able to take grabs and hold your own in a contest. I was confident of this prior to 2015. I'm not confident of this now.

Just like you seem to have forgotten about his shoulder injury and subsequent shoulder reco?

Where did I forget about that? I suffer from a similar shoulder injury to Blacky and I empathise with him, but it's also seems apparent that his confidence in the contest has disappeared. I empathise with him with why that happened, but it doesn't mean he should be thrown games because we feels sorry for him.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Bullshit. 90 percent of his marks were taken on the lead. He's not a body player.

His bag of goals against us were when he was matched up on Jackson Ferguson - a former NSW Scholarship rookie making his debut. Poor Ferg was clearly was a long, long way off the pace of AFL footy, was subbed that game and delisted that year. Black burned him on the lead over and over again but I think most AFL players could have done that.

 

[Flawed Genius]

His bag of goals against us were when he was matched up on Jackson Ferguson - a former NSW Scholarship rookie making his debut. Poor Ferg was clearly was a long, long way off the pace of AFL footy, was subbed that game and delisted that year. Black burned him on the lead over and over again but I think most AFL players could have done that.

I remember that.

Blacky ended his career.

 

[SpearPass]

1st goal - he looks to engage body on body and wins comprehensively.
2nd goal - engages body to body and uses that to break away for a lead (this won't be a 'contested mark').
3rd goal - body on body, draws a free.
4th goal - good, short, sharp lead to the pocket.
5th goal - found himself in space. Not quite a lead but did well to create the space.

It's now our game style that made the first three goals non existent for Black. This is what I'm saying. He was confident in the contest and I was confident he could win a one-on-one.

 

[croode]

Maybe Black can become a defender. Trained to take Grima's role.

 

[SpearPass]

Yes, I'm aware that it was on ferguson.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

I remember that.

Blacky ended his career.

Granted, Black was good that day. But that was the year we were so desperate for key defenders that we played Rhys Stanley at full back for most of the year. Ferguson never should have been played; he wasn't much chop in the VFL either. I think Ferg's lack of understanding of the game ended his career.

 

[ChopChopDigDig]

Wood can't play key position and Durdin is two big pre-seasons away from having a body capable of play as a key tall. We are very thin on the key forward sat the minute

And neither can Black, so why keep both?

 

[Massive Unit]

I struggle to understand why there is so much discussion about a bloke that clearly doesn't want to be at Arden Street. No point in debating it.
If his mind is made up, I won't be wasting any more time on him.

 

[Shagga is all Class]

NAB Trade Radio ‏@traderadio 10m10 minutes ago
.@NathanBrown_07: "I'd take Jack Watts over Aaron Black." Do you agree?

If it were a straight swap then yes, at this stage I would take Watts.

 

[GarnerSmash]

So his inability to hold off smaller players now despite being able to do so against larger players two years ago isn't a diminishing of his form in this aspect? His best games were when he was taking 2-3 CM. I'm not denying his best abilities are in space and on the lead, but you need your forwards to be able to hold their own in a contest when it comes to them.

2013
Vs. West Coast: 3 goals 1, 3 contested marks.
Vs. St. Kilda: 5 goals 3, 2 contested marks (I counted three watching the highlights but whatever).
Vs. Melbourne: 4 goals 1, 1 contested mark, 5 marks inside 50.

2014
Same pattern, his games where he has the most shots on goal are where he clunks a few CM.

I'm not saying he needs to be a contested marking machine or was a contested marking machine. But the games where he was clunking them were the games where he had the most shots on goal. Averages don't indicate that, nor does not watching the match. Maybe it was his peers having confidence in his after he grabbed one or two out of a pack or on a tight lead (this isn't indicated in CM stats).

He is not a Petrie and he is not a Waite, nor is he a Lachie Hansen. BUT, you need to be able to take grabs and hold your own in a contest. I was confident of this prior to 2015. I'm not confident of this now.



Where did I forget about that? I suffer from a similar shoulder injury to Blacky and I empathise with him, but it's also seems apparent that his confidence in the contest has disappeared. I empathise with him with why that happened, but it doesn't mean he should be thrown games because we feels sorry for him.

Despite finding a few examples of games in which he took half of his contested marks in 2013, you should potentially consider the 15 games that season in which he took the other half as providing a greater indicator of his contested marking abilities. TBH he never really had it, and since the reco last year seems to have gone further backwards. I guess its a moot point, but the reference to game style impacting his suitability to lining up every week is fair.

 

[chubbspeterson]

Brown takes alot of marks at the highest point of his leap/launch what he has recently struggled with is the defenders using their hips/chest to "legally tunnel" him out of taking a grab. I invite you to go through thie finals replays and see how many times he marked the ball and then goaled. Not many, can you recall him crumbing his dropped marks and then goaling?

I think youre right with Black's body language and demeanor its not pretty to watch.
i listen to alot of SEN radio and rohan connolly mentions that todays footballers aren't prepared to graft and earn their spots on the team. Its indicitive of todays society where you dont like it you go elsewhere or if its broke to throw it away and buy a new one. No one is prepared to fix things anymore, nor are they prepared to work hard and gain the respect around them. Or should I say there less people that are prepared to do it.

Yeah Brown's kicking has been off, might have something to do with him running towards the boundary line from set shots.
He doesn't crumb many of his own dropped marks but Browny is pretty handy in crumbing or setting up the odd goal.
Black used to be so clean with his hands and I've never seen him kick grubbers along the ground.
His confidence is shot, perhaps pressure got to him when he got his couple of chances in the ones.
I just don't like players who aren't prepared to do the work and fight for their spot.
Look at Scotty McMahon's attitude. Keep putting in the work, didn't sook about it.
Hopefully these players take a leaf out of Fyfe's book and put in the work to get better and actually want to dominate the game.

 

[kangaspurs]

Its not as simple as that chubbspeterson.........he isnt the same type of player as Brown and if you recall he produced many a lead but got ignored often because the team were instructed to hit up Petrie and Waite.

Brown and Black have different ways to get the ball into to them.

This is a massive assumption ozzy, and unless you actually know the teams instructions I think it highly unlikely. The more likely scenario is that Petrie and Waite simply lead to better spots and with better timing than Black and have a far better work rate in their repeat leads and patterns.

Waite may have been the one that filled Blacks spot in the team from last year, but he wasn't the one keeping him out; that was Black himself. This Black discussion is the perfect example of the prevailing attitude among some posters that it's better to be young that good. We can't just be gifting games to a bloke because he's young and when we've got a better option that will make the team stronger sitting in the stands. It's incumbent on that player to produce performances that demand selection. It could certainly be argued that gifting players games is a reason why the likes of Atley and Bastinac havent developed as strongly or as quickly as we would have liked because they weren't made to work for their spots.