3rd ODI Australia v Pakistan, November 10 1400hrs @ Perth Stadium

[ROOTA#6]

Your first look at Aaron Hardie? He's played for Australia 20 times and has almost 2,000 first-class runs.

Don't you watch cricket?

2000 first class runs…wow. Take me back to when blokes had to make 10,000 before they got a look in.

Given the team we put out today the game should not be considered an international match

 

[aussierulesrules]

Did we win?

 

[PhatBoy]

any footage or links to this incident?

There’s heaps, just Google Warner Joel Wilson Sri Lanka DRS. It was everywhere.

Even the CA website references him yelling towards Wilson as he left the field.

‘Annoyed, frustrated’: Warner vents over DRS calls | cricket.com.au

Veteran complains about DRS delays, calling for greater accountability and transparency

www.cricket.com.au

 

[big_e]

2000 first class runs…wow. Take me back to when blokes had to make 10,000 before they got a look in.

Given the team we put out today the game should not be considered an international match

The long apprenticeship is the exception not the rule. Australian selectors have always picked players on potential - Steve Waugh had done **** all for NSW before playing for Australia, Shane Warne was a virtual unknown, Nathan Lyon had 14 FC wickets before debuting, etc etc.

People are getting worked up about nothing. There were two sides with different aims today - one had close to their best side, and the other used it as a trial game. We won a World Cup 12 months ago, and of we wanted to pick from the full squad, it would have been a different story.

 

[PhatBoy]

The long apprenticeship is the exception not the rule. Australian selectors have always picked players on potential - Steve Waugh had done **** all for NSW before playing for Australia, Shane Warne was a virtual unknown, Nathan Lyon had 14 FC wickets before debuting, etc etc.

People are getting worked up about nothing. There were two sides with different aims today - one had close to their best side, and the other used it as a trial game. We won a World Cup 12 months ago, and of we wanted to pick from the full squad, it would have been a different story.

The game before it Australia lost by 9 wickets with Pat Cummins and Mitchell Starc and Adam Zampa in that attack.

Green is not available full stop for the foreseeable future.
Warner has retired.
Smith played in Adelaide.
Maxwell played in Adelaide (and today)
Labuschagne played in Adelaide.

They got flogged by 9 wickets in Adelaide. Just saying ‘if we wanted to pick from the full squad it would have been a different story’ is not telling things exactly as they are.

Head, Marsh and Hazlewood are the only 3 main players who didn’t contest this series and Hazlewood has averaged 41 with the ball on ODI cricket this year and over 30 last year.

Marsh and Head are admittedly big outs based on the last two years of output

 

[The Casey Cat]

The long apprenticeship is the exception not the rule. Australian selectors have always picked players on potential - Steve Waugh had done **** all for NSW before playing for Australia, Shane Warne was a virtual unknown, Nathan Lyon had 14 FC wickets before debuting, etc etc.

People are getting worked up about nothing. There were two sides with different aims today - one had close to their best side, and the other used it as a trial game. We won a World Cup 12 months ago, and of we wanted to pick from the full squad, it would have been a different story.

Perhaps but it's not good how brainless and disgracefully inept the next in line (if that's what you want to call it) have played. These last two batting displays have been utterly shameful and I'd have no issue if near all of these pathetic, c#ck head batsmen never got a look in at 'international' (we didn't treat it that way) level again.

 

[Blues_Man]

Quite possibly the worst one day International team Australia have ever fielded, I could run through that Aussie batting line up . takes me back to the 1920 Rabbit plague , since i've seen that many bunnies in the one spot. .

 

[Jamz]

2. Just a total disrespect by CA Australia with the scheduling to the fans and to Pakistan. Yes its nice to see youngens given a go but if you are not going to play your best 11 why should the paying public rock up ??

They do this regularly, just that we usually have a couple of players in the team who can save the day.

This time we had Inglis, Maxwell and Stoinis. Maxwell and Stoinis are likely to get out and shrug their shoulders and say "it just wasn't my day", I tell you what Glenn, you don't have many days. Inglis, still trying to find his feet as a starter in the Aussie team, can't be sweating on him to pull one out of the fire. I expected a hell of a lot more from Maxwell but we've been living in that world for years now.

There were players in that team who will be looked at for future ODI campaigns, campaigns which will mean a lot to the fans. Without Warner, we need an opener, Short or McGurk did zilch here, nothing. I fear McGurk is another Maxwell, get out trying to hit everything out of the park and then shrug his shoulders "it just wasn't my day", make it your day.

Hardie was no good either, fair dinkum. That shot he played in the first game, as clueless as you will see. There was zero scoreboard pressure, the only pressure was the fact we kept losing wickets. He backs away exposing all 3 to try and carve one through point. That's not the play.

 

[Gough]

They do this regularly, just that we usually have a couple of players in the team who can save the day.

This time we had Inglis, Maxwell and Stoinis. Maxwell and Stoinis are likely to get out and shrug their shoulders and say "it just wasn't my day", I tell you what Glenn, you don't have many days. Inglis, still trying to find his feet as a starter in the Aussie team, can't be sweating on him to pull one out of the fire. I expected a hell of a lot more from Maxwell but we've been living in that world for years now.

There were players in that team who will be looked at for future ODI campaigns, campaigns which will mean a lot to the fans. Without Warner, we need an opener, Short or McGurk did zilch here, nothing. I fear McGurk is another Maxwell, get out trying to hit everything out of the park and then shrug his shoulders "it just wasn't my day", make it your day.

Hardie was no good either, fair dinkum. That shot he played in the first game, as clueless as you will see. There was zero scoreboard pressure, the only pressure was the fact we kept losing wickets. He backs away exposing all 3 to try and carve one through point. That's not the play.

In Ricky Ponting's book he spoke about one of the biggest things to adjust to when they first started playing T20 was not valuing your wicket because it was counter intuitive to everything you'd ever learned about the game now we're seeing what happens when you have players who are brought up on the game with that attitude.

 

[PhatBoy]

They do this regularly, just that we usually have a couple of players in the team who can save the day.

This time we had Inglis, Maxwell and Stoinis. Maxwell and Stoinis are likely to get out and shrug their shoulders and say "it just wasn't my day", I tell you what Glenn, you don't have many days. Inglis, still trying to find his feet as a starter in the Aussie team, can't be sweating on him to pull one out of the fire. I expected a hell of a lot more from Maxwell but we've been living in that world for years now.

There were players in that team who will be looked at for future ODI campaigns, campaigns which will mean a lot to the fans. Without Warner, we need an opener, Short or McGurk did zilch here, nothing. I fear McGurk is another Maxwell, get out trying to hit everything out of the park and then shrug his shoulders "it just wasn't my day", make it your day.

Hardie was no good either, fair dinkum. That shot he played in the first game, as clueless as you will see. There was zero scoreboard pressure, the only pressure was the fact we kept losing wickets. He backs away exposing all 3 to try and carve one through point. That's not the play.

24 times in 118 innings Maxwell passes 50 batting at 5 or lower (which is where he’s spent the majority of his career; he’s only batted higher 15 times).

So every 4.9 innings he passes 50.

Marnus, to use a current example, passes 50 every 3.9 innings or thereabouts, batting at number 3. And his strike rate is 40 - yes, 40 per hundred balls lower than Maxwell.

I’d say for a number 5 batsman, Maxwell offers exactly what you would expect him to offer, except he leans to the match-winning side not the match-saving side.

A number 5 batsman is inherently not going to pass 50 as often because they are never going to get the same amount of opportunities to bat the same amount of time as the top 4. Especially with two players - Smith and Marnus - who are deliberate in constructing and pacing an innings, above them.

And by my count, of those 24 scores above 50, 15 of them have come when Australia has been 5-150 or during their innings (under 100 for the loss of the 4th wicket etc), and another one was when Australia was 5-167.

Yes he is hit and miss. All ultra attacking players will be.

But Christ he cops some heat.

 

[western royboy]

In Ricky Ponting's book he spoke about one of the biggest things to adjust to when they first started playing T20 was not valuing your wicket because it was counter intuitive to everything you'd ever learned about the game now we're seeing what happens when you have players who are brought up on the game with that attitude.

Many years ago i was fortunate to play with a very, very good player who managed a Test but shedloads of Shield runs. Our pom for the year was a young UK first class player who was very talented. He walked back to the group after being dismissed cheaply and uttered something along the lines of “doesn’t matter…I’ll make some tomorrow”

The senior man ripped him a new one and told him he’d never be any good with that attitude and that’s why England are no good.

It always stayed with me. The Pom went on to effectively invent the 100 in the Uk - he never learned the lesson

 

[akkaps]

Okay, my turn for and retrospective look into the series.

Pakistan, played well with a nearly full strength team. And yes their objective from this series was very different to that of that of Australia. With CT25 around the corner they are using this to figure out what their best XI could be for CT25. Siam Ayub impress, though I still have questions over he's focus and being able to play a game out. The small totals were good for him and for Pakistan because they like the chase and port better at it. That's why they bowled first yesterday.
Pakistan also had a massive issue with their side which Australia failed to exploit and that was to use their fifth bowler. Australia just needed to push the game to the 35th over and then they could have gone haywire on the bowling of Siam Ayub and Salman Ali Agha

As for Australia; whilst I understand wanting to keep a close unit together through all 3 formats, it shows a lack of depth and talent in Australian cricket. And with schedule becoming even more packed, this is something that needs to be looked at. Otherwise CA need to start declining series. Teams like India and England can produce two completely different squads for two different formats at the same time, and still be competitive. Australia have the funds to do this. Pakistan's Test XI that beat England had a completely different bowling attack to the one that beat Australia.

These younger players do need the International experience, and it only comes with more game time. They find that either playing County cricket, the rare Australian A series, or going around the T20 circuits. If you say these younger players are not of international quality, then what can be done about that? It's not by resting them to play your Best XI in every possible game. I'd rather see them playing for Australia or Aus A rather than running off to T20 leagues or County for that experience.

The fact that the Test XI are pretty much all 30+ shows that the younger players are not getting that opportunity at the highest level to develop their skills so that when they are required to step up as a permanent role for Australia, they at least know what it's like playing for Australia against International opposition.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Well just got back ...what a disaster today at Optus though Adelaide was a one off but we have serious issues

Just talked shop with some mates about the standard of Aussie Cricket atm ....a few observations

1. Why did the test players rest when they are playing the first in Perth ??....perfect opportunity on a fast bouncy seaming track to get some practice in for both marnus and Smudge.....and the bowlers I sort of can understand but it would be nice to have some practice on the ground you are actually playing at in a weeks time.... Centre wicket practice means F**k all

2. Just a total disrespect by CA Australia with the scheduling to the fans and to Pakistan. Yes its nice to see youngens given a go but if you are not going to play your best 11 why should the paying public rock up ??

3. I thought the experienced players today where woeful apart form Abbott with the bat.. Stoinis and maxwell just nothing really poor..zamps fielding was shocking...and inglis should know better 3 times getting out to he pull shot just not good enough

4. The batting......Fraser is terrible no foot work..t20 only ..Short just makes starts cant go on with it....Hardie all at sea really struggling... Connolly unluckly broken hand......and its obvious this lineup struggles against pace...Warner made a good point last game the lack of air speed in the shield...and you can see it with our batters they cant handle it

5. Bowling i thought was okay when you have only got 140 to play with.....Johnstone okay Abbot average....but why the F**k didnt we open the bowling with Morris ??? wtf is stoinis going to ...the Pakistanis where loving it with no Morris opening the bowling

Oh well reality check for the ausssies young players are not taking the opportunity and its very poor to see

Could not agree more. Crowds won't turn up anywhere if you don't play your best team. You give young players a go in Australia A teams not the Australian side.
Could of been a great lead up to the test as you said but CA chose to let our bowlers bowl on shit heaps like Adelaide and Melbourne instead of on the pitch the first test will be played.

Every point you made here is spot on.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Okay, my turn for and retrospective look into the series.

Pakistan, played well with a nearly full strength team. And yes their objective from this series was very different to that of that of Australia. With CT25 around the corner they are using this to figure out what their best XI could be for CT25. Siam Ayub impress, though I still have questions over he's focus and being able to play a game out. The small totals were good for him and for Pakistan because they like the chase and port better at it. That's why they bowled first yesterday.
Pakistan also had a massive issue with their side which Australia failed to exploit and that was to use their fifth bowler. Australia just needed to push the game to the 35th over and then they could have gone haywire on the bowling of Siam Ayub and Salman Ali Agha

As for Australia; whilst I understand wanting to keep a close unit together through all 3 formats, it shows a lack of depth and talent in Australian cricket. And with schedule becoming even more packed, this is something that needs to be looked at. Otherwise CA need to start declining series. Teams like India and England can produce two completely different squads for two different formats at the same time, and still be competitive. Australia have the funds to do this. Pakistan's Test XI that beat England had a completely different bowling attack to the one that beat Australia.

These younger players do need the International experience, and it only comes with more game time. They find that either playing County cricket, the rare Australian A series, or going around the T20 circuits. If you say these younger players are not of international quality, then what can be done about that? It's not by resting them to play your Best XI in every possible game. I'd rather see them playing for Australia or Aus A rather than running off to T20 leagues or County for that experience.

The fact that the Test XI are pretty much all 30+ shows that the younger players are not getting that opportunity at the highest level to develop their skills so that when they are required to step up as a permanent role for Australia, they at least know what it's like playing for Australia against International opposition.

The series against Pakistan should not even be on, all our test side should of been playing shield cricket for the last 2 months. CA simply have no idea.

 

[Voice of the G]

The series against Pakistan should not even be on, all our test side should of been playing shield cricket for the last 2 months. CA simply have no idea.

This is where we are falling down judging shield performances.The lack of test players playing in the shield.

 

[akkaps]

The series against Pakistan should not even be on, all our test side should of been playing shield cricket for the last 2 months. CA simply have no idea.

It's on. it was agreed upon when the FTC was created years back. It would look foolish to back out of this series without due reason.

It probably would have been preferable to have the predicted Test XI play FC cricket over this, I agree. But a side needed to be put up for this series. This is where teams like India and England are able to field a side that is still competitive outside of their Best XI. Whilst Australia struggle to do so. There is now a T20I series that Australia will have to play without their best bowlers because they are all preparing for the Test series. It's CA's job to find these players and market them so that people are excited to see them play

It's not always going to be possible to play the Best XI in every match, I'd suggest learning the names of the 30-40 best players in the nation and not just the the 11 names.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

It's on. it was agreed upon when the FTC was created years back. It would look foolish to back out of this series without due reason.

It probably would have been preferable to have the predicted Test XI play FC cricket over this, I agree. But a side needed to be put up for this series. This is where teams like India and England are able to field a side that is still competitive outside of their Best XI. Whilst Australia struggle to do so. There is now a T20I series that Australia will have to play without their best bowlers because they are all preparing for the Test series. It's CA's job to find these players and market them so that people are excited to see them play

It's not always going to be possible to play the Best XI in every match, I'd suggest learning the names of the 30-40 best players in the nation and not just the the 11 names.

Yes it's all about money, but not sure much is being made playing second string teams. Aussie cricket fans vote with their feet.

 

[akkaps]

Yes it's all about money, but not sure much is being made playing second string teams. Aussie cricket fans vote with their feet.

This is where Australia will get left behind. Because once this crop of players retire at the end of the Ashes, there will be a team with little experience at International level. A team that has been heavily criticized for not being in the Best XI in the little opportunity that they got, and wont have the support of public.

If the Australian public won't support these players now, why should they be supported when they are required to lead the attack or open the batting? That is why I am saying that you need to get used to 30-40 players, rather than 11.

 

[RookiePick]

This is where we are falling down judging shield performances.The lack of test players playing in the shield.

This is an astute comment. We really are robbing ourselves to see who has the goods against proven test calibre bowling and test calibre batting.

You read the old tales of blokes turning up to grade cricket and having to face Thommo and Pascoe. That would have sorted the wheat from the chaff pretty rapidly!

 

[greatwhiteshark]

This is where Australia will get left behind. Because once this crop of players retire at the end of the Ashes, there will be a team with little experience at International level. A team that has been heavily criticized for not being in the Best XI in the little opportunity that they got, and wont have the support of public.

If the Australian public won't support these players now, why should they be supported when they are required to lead the attack or open the batting? That is why I am saying that you need to get used to 30-40 players, rather than 11.

No problem with what you are saying but if you are selected in the One day then I expect you to play. We are giving out Australian spots these days without players earning their spots.
Far out what I would of given to play in this era, don't have to earn anything now.
If the ACB don't want our best players playing in these series then don't pick them in the squad at all.
And we are used to a large number of players, they have been doing this for years now. The fans however will not turn up to watch Australia A play. Just as they don't turn up to watch AFL reserves teams. It is of no interest to cricket fans.

We had 3 one day games. Game 1 stark doesn't play, game 2 Cummins doesn't play, game 3 Hazelwood doesn't play. Thats how it should be done. And only god knows why we are resting Batsman?

 

[akkaps]

No problem with what you are saying but if you are selected in the One day then I expect you to play. We are giving out Australian spots these days without players earning their spots.
Far out what I would of given to play in this era, don't have to earn anything now.
If the ACB don't want our best players playing in these series then don't pick them in the squad at all.
And we are used to a large number of players, they have been doing this for years now. The fans however will not turn up to watch Australia A play. Just as they don't turn up to watch AFL reserves teams. It is of no interest to cricket fans.

We had 3 one day games. Game 1 stark doesn't play, game 2 Cummins doesn't play, game 3 Hazelwood doesn't play. Thats how it should be done. And only god knows why we are resting Batsman?

Define "earning your spot", and it's not having scored 10,000 FC or LA runs before getting a look in for Australia, because by the time that hits, they are already 30 and it's the same cycle ongoing.
You have to go with what you are have unfortunately, and by a lot of of people on this board they only didn't cut it because Australia lost.
These players are the future of Australian cricket, it's poor that you won't support them.

Should the bowling trio also be playing the T20 series then, because there are three games there as well?
In my opinion, they should not be. Because (1) with a 5 Test series coming up, don't want to risk injury; and (2) there is a different mindset from T20 cricket and Test cricket, with only a few days to make that mental shift.
Batsmen also need their rest, it's not just the bowlers

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Define "earning your spot", and it's not having scored 10,000 FC or LA runs before getting a look in for Australia, because by the time that hits, they are already 30 and it's the same cycle ongoing.
You have to go with what you are have unfortunately, and by a lot of of people on this board they only didn't cut it because Australia lost.
These players are the future of Australian cricket, it's poor that you won't support them.

Should the bowling trio also be playing the T20 series then, because there are three games there as well?
In my opinion, they should not be. Because (1) with a 5 Test series coming up, don't want to risk injury; and (2) there is a different mindset from T20 cricket and Test cricket, with only a few days to make that mental shift.
Batsmen also need their rest, it's not just the bowlers

Mate I accept its all changed these days and no I don't expect them to score 10 shield hundreds to get a gig but I am just pointing out they are getting in the Aussie side not based on much, maybe a good few t20 matches and maybe a reasonable match in a One day cup match. Expose them in Australia A matches not in the Australian team.
Hardie, Morris and Connolly have not earnt their spot in my opinion and I am a WA boy.
As for supporting them well I don't go to the cricket anymore and have not since it left the WACA, thats my own issue. Still watch on TV when serious games are being played like Tests.

Anyway you are right it has all changed and it is what it is. Life goes on and it just means much more golf now. lol

 

[akkaps]

Mate I accept its all changed these days and no I don't expect them to score 10 shield hundreds to get a gig but I am just pointing out they are getting in the Aussie side not based on much, maybe a good few t20 matches and maybe a reasonable match in a One day cup match. Expose them in Australia A matches not in the Australian team.
Hardie, Morris and Connolly have not earnt their spot in my opinion and I am a WA boy.
As for supporting them well I don't go to the cricket anymore and have not since it left the WACA, thats my own issue. Still watch on TV when serious games are being played like Tests.

Anyway you are right it has all changed and it is what it is. Life goes on and it just means much more golf now. lol

Then I would suggest making more Australia A game, but that doesn't happen. So there is no other option that to give players an international cap and see if they can hack it. The answer would be more games, rather than less games then.
The two FC matches recently were both initiated by the BCCI, not CA. And outside of the two Aus A tours of NZ in the past two years, I don't remember all that much Australia A cricket.

These are the players that the selectors have deemed to have earned their spots in the Australia and therefore the ones that Australia are going with.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Then I would suggest making more Australia A game, but that doesn't happen. So there is no other option that to give players an international cap and see if they can hack it. The answer would be more games, rather than less games then.
The two FC matches recently were both initiated by the BCCI, not CA. And outside of the two Aus A tours of NZ in the past two years, I don't remember all that much Australia A cricket.

These are the players that the selectors have deemed to have earned their spots in the Australia and therefore the ones that Australia are going with.

There once was many more Australia A games. They didn't get much coverage though.

Agree that's what the selectors have chosen and hence if that's the case then they get no excuses for their performances.

 

[JackOutback]

Mate I accept its all changed these days and no I don't expect them to score 10 shield hundreds to get a gig but I am just pointing out they are getting in the Aussie side not based on much, maybe a good few t20 matches and maybe a reasonable match in a One day cup match. Expose them in Australia A matches not in the Australian team.
Hardie, Morris and Connolly have not earnt their spot in my opinion and I am a WA boy.
As for supporting them well I don't go to the cricket anymore and have not since it left the WACA, thats my own issue. Still watch on TV when serious games are being played like Tests.

Anyway you are right it has all changed and it is what it is. Life goes on and it just means much more golf now. lol

Hardie has a FC batting average of 40 and bowling average of 28, reckon introducing him through white ball cricket is perfectly fine, particularly given the preference for all-round talent. Cooper is getting the Ponting/Clarke treatment because the potential is bloody obvious.