Play Nice 46th President of the United States: Joe Biden 2: Incidit in scyllam cupiens vitare charybdim

[Geelong_Sicko]

Trump will end democracy in the USA. It will be brutal and will split the country forever.

If the fallout could be limited to JUST the United States I'd wish for a Trump victory in a heartbeat - no nation needs to be brought to its knees quite like the United States of America.

Realistically though, the dissolution of the United States into factional enclaves, some conservative, racist and outright evil while others liberal, left and inclusive will have massive financial repercussions for the rest of the world.

The United States has wormed and thieved and connived and bribed and sweet-talked and bought its way to be the world's indispensable nation, at the financial and cultural heart of most of everything. Its fall won't be the flutter of a butterfly's wings that creates a simple storm on the other side of the world.

As the bald eagle dies, the last convulsive flap of wing could spawn nightmares.

 

[Blue1980]

If the fallout could be limited to JUST the United States I'd wish for a Trump victory in a heartbeat - no nation needs to be brought to its knees quite like the United States of America.

Realistically though, the dissolution of the United States into factional enclaves, some conservative, racist and outright evil while others liberal, left and inclusive will have massive financial repercussions for the rest of the world.

The United States has wormed and thieved and connived and bribed and sweet-talked and bought its way to be the world's indispensable nation, at the financial and cultural heart of most of everything. Its fall won't be the flutter of a butterfly's wings that creates a simple storm on the other side of the world.

As the bald eagle dies, the last convulsive flap of wing could spawn nightmares.

Yeah and it will embolden conservatives (fascists) worldwide that they can do the same.

 

[spinynorman]

He is only divisive, because he isn't GOP, and has had a decade long smear campaign against his whole family, that has convinced some fools he is a senile baby eating criminal mastermind.

Like Obama was divisive, because he wasn't American, and divided the races, by not being white and upsetting the "I'm not racist, but" crowd.

Given this is likely to be GOP tactics from here on, be prepared for their never to be a non divisive Democrat frontrunner ever again.

It's actually entertaining to speculate on how the next Dem president will divide the nation.

Satan worshipping lizard man infiltrating humanity while being a puppet of "them". Would be my guess. You know it's true, unless your a sheeple.

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The thing is, being a divisive figure in and of itself isn't a bad thing. Lincoln was so divisive half the country seceded and ended up in a long, bloody conflict.

The issue now, that you hint at, is that the division is inherent and over very little.

The issue with Biden, and why choosing him in 2020 was just a real case of the wrong person for the time, is that he has feted bipartisanship for 50 years and made it a part of his campaign. He regularly went in to bat for Nixon during the impeachment scandal and said it was important for the Republicans to not be blamed. He tried to get Kerry to make McCain his VP pick. It's inherent to who he is, putting consensus and unity on a pedestal.

The Democrats need a warrior as President, and instead they have this. It's why Trump is favourite - he gets that there's a conflict.

 

[GreyCrow]

The thing is, being a divisive figure in and of itself isn't a bad thing. Lincoln was so divisive half the country seceded and ended up in a long, bloody conflict.

Is this you Nikki?

This is the hottest take you have had in a while

Even Vivek understands the causes of the Civil War better than you.

 

[Present Not Past]

The Democrats need a warrior as President, and instead they have this. It's why Trump is favourite - he gets that there's a conflict.

Yes, the Democrats need a warrior yet the Republicans have a criminal.

 

[spinynorman]

Is this you Nikki?

This is the hottest take you have had in a while

Even Vivek understands the causes of the Civil War better than you.

Ahhh, an avowed anti-slavery expansionist was elected President, with the South seceding in response.

Not everything needs to be a "gotcha".

 

[GreyCrow]

Ahhh, an avowed anti-slavery expansionist was elected President, with the South seceding in response.

Not everything needs to be a "gotcha".

For more than 80 years, people in the Northern and Southern states had been debating the issues that ultimately led to war: economic policies and practices, cultural values, the extent and reach of the Federal government, and, most importantly, the role of slavery within American society.

The Civil War began when Southern troops bombarded Fort Sumter, South Carolina. When the southern states seceded from the Union, war was still not a certainty. Federal forts, barracks, and naval shipyards dotted the southern landscape.

Momentum toward violence continued to grow, and a little over a month after Lincoln's inauguration, Confederate batteries fired on Fort Sumter, marking the official beginning of the Civil War. Believing strongly that secession was unconstitutional and determined to hold the Union together, Lincoln chose to fight.

Almost from the beginning of his administration, abolitionists and radical Republicans pressured Abraham Lincoln to issue an Emancipation Proclamation. Although Lincoln personally abhorred slavery, he felt confined by his constitutional authority as president to challenge slavery only in the context of necessary war measures. He also worried about the reactions of those in the loyal border states where slavery was still legal. Lincoln is said to have summed up the importance of keeping the border states in the Union by saying "I hope to have God on my side, but I must have Kentucky."

The increasing number of fugitives and questions about their status eventually prompted action by the United States Congress. On August 6, 1861, Congress passed the First Confiscation Act, which negated owners' claims to escaped slaves whose labor had been used on behalf of the Confederacy. In 1862 Congress also acted against slavery in areas under the jurisdiction of the federal government. Congress abolished slavery in the federal District of Columbia on April 16 with a compensated emancipation program.

After the Civil War started

 

[spinynorman]

For more than 80 years, people in the Northern and Southern states had been debating the issues that ultimately led to war: economic policies and practices, cultural values, the extent and reach of the Federal government, and, most importantly, the role of slavery within American society.

The Civil War began when Southern troops bombarded Fort Sumter, South Carolina. When the southern states seceded from the Union, war was still not a certainty. Federal forts, barracks, and naval shipyards dotted the southern landscape.

Momentum toward violence continued to grow, and a little over a month after Lincoln's inauguration, Confederate batteries fired on Fort Sumter, marking the official beginning of the Civil War. Believing strongly that secession was unconstitutional and determined to hold the Union together, Lincoln chose to fight.

Almost from the beginning of his administration, abolitionists and radical Republicans pressured Abraham Lincoln to issue an Emancipation Proclamation. Although Lincoln personally abhorred slavery, he felt confined by his constitutional authority as president to challenge slavery only in the context of necessary war measures. He also worried about the reactions of those in the loyal border states where slavery was still legal. Lincoln is said to have summed up the importance of keeping the border states in the Union by saying "I hope to have God on my side, but I must have Kentucky."

The increasing number of fugitives and questions about their status eventually prompted action by the United States Congress. On August 6, 1861, Congress passed the First Confiscation Act, which negated owners' claims to escaped slaves whose labor had been used on behalf of the Confederacy. In 1862 Congress also acted against slavery in areas under the jurisdiction of the federal government. Congress abolished slavery in the federal District of Columbia on April 16 with a compensated emancipation program.

After the Civil War started

None of this negates what I said? The tension over slavery had been simmering since Independence as the political class attempted to find compromise over the issue (to go back to my earlier point about Biden, placing the illusion of unity over divisive righteousness). Lincoln's election brought things to a head. From literally the first line of the "Presidency" section of Lincoln's Wikipedia page, "The South was outraged by Lincoln's election, and in response secessionists implemented plans to leave the Union before he took office in March 1861." Central to this compromise was about the expansion of slavery to the new states and territories. Lincoln opposed this, as I said, but moved to a position of abolition and emancipation during the War.

Lincoln was divisive because of what he stood for, not because people thought he was a dickhead or whatever. I'm not sure if that helps clarify, because I'm honestly puzzled what point you're trying to make. Given you mentioned Nikki Haley, the Civil War was about slavery, yes, and because the South perceived the new President as being a threat to its continuation.

 

[Crankyhawk]

But then Trump only just lost by even less - 20,000 votes in three states also. And what of Biden's legacy would Newsom offer a difference on, aside "I'm not mentally vacant"?



I don't know - I think Biden has to go after the last month or so, but at some point this starts to no longer feel like a fight you have a dog in. Irrespective, I don't think it will come down to that dichotomy anyway.

That’s including the ballots trump stuffed in those seats and he still lost

Based on the probability that his accusations of vote fraud are projection. It is why he knows so much details about how to do the fraud.

 

[spinynorman]

Biden is losing to Trump among Hispanics and younger voters, according to a new poll.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Biden is losing to Trump among Hispanics and younger voters, according to a new poll.

Wow. Assuming the sample is representative, that's not good. Hard to believe either of those groups would turn to Trump though, would have expected younger voters to lean to Sanders (is he running again) or an independent option.

Edit: just read the article, some of them are turning to a non-Biden/non-Trump option. Still hurts Biden's re-election chances.

 

[bourbons]

Wow. Assuming the sample is representative, that's not good. Hard to believe either of those groups would turn to Trump though, would have expected younger voters to lean to Sanders (is he running again) or an independent option.

Edit: just read the article, some of them are turning to a non-Biden/non-Trump option. Still hurts Biden's re-election chances.

Yep. If they just disengage and don't vote (or even just protest vote a 3rd option) thats still a great outcome for the GOP.

Big, big problems for the democrats imo. Biden is actively throwing away his presidency, its mind boggling

 

[jatz14]

None of this negates what I said? The tension over slavery had been simmering since Independence as the political class attempted to find compromise over the issue (to go back to my earlier point about Biden, placing the illusion of unity over divisive righteousness). Lincoln's election brought things to a head. From literally the first line of the "Presidency" section of Lincoln's Wikipedia page, "The South was outraged by Lincoln's election, and in response secessionists implemented plans to leave the Union before he took office in March 1861." Central to this compromise was about the expansion of slavery to the new states and territories. Lincoln opposed this, as I said, but moved to a position of abolition and emancipation during the War.

Lincoln was divisive because of what he stood for, not because people thought he was a dickhead or whatever. I'm not sure if that helps clarify, because I'm honestly puzzled what point you're trying to make. Given you mentioned Nikki Haley, the Civil War was about slavery, yes, and because the South perceived the new President as being a threat to its continuation.

Your missing the point. Lincoln was president when the country was divided. There was no possible president who could have been elected that was acceptable to both sides, and no policy position that was acceptable to both sides.

It wasn't Lincoln who was divisive, it was slavery, and the positions were irreconcilable.



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[ams4crows]

Yep. If they just disengage and don't vote (or even just protest vote a 3rd option) thats still a great outcome for the GOP.

Big, big problems for the democrats imo. Biden is actively throwing away his presidency, its mind boggling

Exactly right, the 3rd option will cost the democrats. This campaign of well at least we aren't Trump is trash. They actually need some economic policy, forget about what Trump is doing and actually stand for something, say what you are going to do for the people to make their lives better, particularly young people in that 18-34 range, if you get enough of them to vote the Dems win easily, if they think it's a waste of time and nothing will change or help them, they'll stay home.

 

[Maggie5]

A good thing about Biden's administration is that he has had a stable government around him, no revolving doors like under the previous administration (I think Satan kept Trump's list?). No outrageous leaks either.

Only two that I can recall, Press Secretary and Chief of Staff and both left on good terms.

 

[spinynorman]

Joe Biden campaign volunteers are quitting in "droves"

"Biden for President staff have seen volunteers quit in droves, and people who have voted blue for decades feel uncertain about doing so for the first time ever, because of this conflict," the Medium letter read.

"It is not enough to merely be the alternative to Donald Trump," the campaigners continued. "The campaign has to shift the feeling in the pits of voters' stomachs, the same feeling that weighs on us every day as we fight for your reelection. The only way to do that is to call for a ceasefire."

"You have said numerous times that silence in the face of human rights violations is complicity," the letter added "We agree, which is why we are speaking out now. Every minute that passes without a ceasefire is another life that is lost—a life that could have been saved with political action from you."

 

[Spearman]

A good thing about Biden's administration is that he has had a stable government around him, no revolving doors like under the previous administration (I think Satan kept Trump's list?). No outrageous leaks either.

Only two that I can recall, Press Secretary and Chief of Staff and both left on good terms.

well TBF that IS pretty divisive if you prefer chaos and anarchy

 

[Festerz]

Biden's opening campaign speech was powerful, filled with raw emotion that took him off script several times.

“Donald Trump’s campaign is about him, not America, not you,”

“Donald Trump’s campaign is obsessed with the past, not the future. He’s willing to sacrifice our democracy, put himself in power.”

Probably his best imho. But was it enough? The lingering concern that a younger Biden would have delivered that speech far more convincingly remains, especially given he's up against Trump, who does the angry old man rhetoric better than anyone (facts and content aside).

The Washington Post summary:

Biden spoke at a community college about 10 miles from Valley Forge National Historical Park, where George Washington mobilized troops during the Revolutionary War to fight for democracy some 250 years ago. The president’s remarks came on the eve of the anniversary of the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection, when a Trump-inspired mob stormed the U.S. Capitol and attempted to prevent Biden from taking office despite his clear victory in the 2020 election.

In a speech that stretched some 30 minutes, Biden mentioned Trump’s name at least 44 times, referring to him in the beginning, middle and end — a clear signal that he is pivoting to campaign mode and sees his predecessor as his all-but-certain challenger. “I won the election,” Biden said of 2020. “And he was a loser.”

Biden also spent considerable time describing details of what occurred three years ago — calling Jan. 6 a day “that we nearly lost America” — and took aim at the way Trump is now attempting to recast the events of that day. “Trump is trying to steal history the same way he tried to steal the election,” he said. “We saw it with our own eyes. Trump’s mob wasn’t a peaceful protest. It was a violent assault. They were insurrectionists, not patriots.”

The speech in full:

 

[Satan]

Biden's opening campaign speech was powerful, filled with raw emotion that took him off script several times.

“Donald Trump’s campaign is about him, not America, not you,”

“Donald Trump’s campaign is obsessed with the past, not the future. He’s willing to sacrifice our democracy, put himself in power.”

Probably his best imho. But was it enough? The lingering concern that a younger Biden would have delivered that speech far more convincingly remains, especially given he's up against Trump, who does the angry old man rhetoric better than anyone (facts and content aside).

The Washington Post summary:

Biden spoke at a community college about 10 miles from Valley Forge National Historical Park, where George Washington mobilized troops during the Revolutionary War to fight for democracy some 250 years ago. The president’s remarks came on the eve of the anniversary of the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection, when a Trump-inspired mob stormed the U.S. Capitol and attempted to prevent Biden from taking office despite his clear victory in the 2020 election.

In a speech that stretched some 30 minutes, Biden mentioned Trump’s name at least 44 times, referring to him in the beginning, middle and end — a clear signal that he is pivoting to campaign mode and sees his predecessor as his all-but-certain challenger. “I won the election,” Biden said of 2020. “And he was a loser.”

Biden also spent considerable time describing details of what occurred three years ago — calling Jan. 6 a day “that we nearly lost America” — and took aim at the way Trump is now attempting to recast the events of that day. “Trump is trying to steal history the same way he tried to steal the election,” he said. “We saw it with our own eyes. Trump’s mob wasn’t a peaceful protest. It was a violent assault. They were insurrectionists, not patriots.”

The speech in full:

Waiting for its AI

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Biden's opening campaign speech was powerful, filled with raw emotion that took him off script several times.

“Donald Trump’s campaign is about him, not America, not you,”

“Donald Trump’s campaign is obsessed with the past, not the future. He’s willing to sacrifice our democracy, put himself in power.”

Probably his best imho. But was it enough? The lingering concern that a younger Biden would have delivered that speech far more convincingly remains, especially given he's up against Trump, who does the angry old man rhetoric better than anyone (facts and content aside).

The Washington Post summary:

Biden spoke at a community college about 10 miles from Valley Forge National Historical Park, where George Washington mobilized troops during the Revolutionary War to fight for democracy some 250 years ago. The president’s remarks came on the eve of the anniversary of the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection, when a Trump-inspired mob stormed the U.S. Capitol and attempted to prevent Biden from taking office despite his clear victory in the 2020 election.

In a speech that stretched some 30 minutes, Biden mentioned Trump’s name at least 44 times, referring to him in the beginning, middle and end — a clear signal that he is pivoting to campaign mode and sees his predecessor as his all-but-certain challenger. “I won the election,” Biden said of 2020. “And he was a loser.”

Biden also spent considerable time describing details of what occurred three years ago — calling Jan. 6 a day “that we nearly lost America” — and took aim at the way Trump is now attempting to recast the events of that day. “Trump is trying to steal history the same way he tried to steal the election,” he said. “We saw it with our own eyes. Trump’s mob wasn’t a peaceful protest. It was a violent assault. They were insurrectionists, not patriots.”

The speech in full:

But, but ... he's senile. He doesn't know where he is or what he's saying ...

Any of you cookers willing to come in and spin this? (Note - the AI call has already been taken).

 

[Not Important]

biden is no better than trump, obama, or..........on this. weak as piss the lot of ‘em.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

biden is no better than trump, obama, or..........on this. week as piss the lot of ‘em.

Harsh on Obama. Obamacare had many positive aspects.

 

[JackFlash]

Surely 'Crazy Joe' will withdraw from the Presidential race in the next month or two? His response to the Gaza war is embarrassing, pretty much everything he does is embarrassing.

 

[GreyCrow]

As an ally of Israel it would be political suicide for him to do otherwise.

If you don't or won't understand that then your take on US politics is embarrassing

 

[Rayzorwire]

Harsh on Obama. Obamacare had many positive aspects.

The Biden strategy team absolutely need you in the room, poor hapless buggers...

"What about if we run on national security?

The border is overrun, everyone will remember Afghanistan once ad season rolls and Russia will have run our shorts up a very large flag pole no matter how much we pretend otherwise well before election time.

What about if we run on the economy?

Literally everybody except the people who ensured we became nominee feel worse off and we've run up a massive debt - most inconveniently, hundreds of billions on our most unpopular policies.

What about if we run on the environment?

I don't think we can count on the hope that their camp will miss that we approved more oil and gas drilling permits than Trump. The increases in our military expenditure and the resultant emissions dwarf any tiny progress we've made in other areas. POTUS falling asleep at conferences not a great look all things considered. It's not an area of strength.

[Jake Sullivan steps up to the plate]

What about if we run on Middle Eastern security?

[WTF? murmurs slowly give way to cautious optimism, borne out of sheer desperation...]

I'm great at this guys, I'll write a piece which highlights what an amazing job POTUS has done strengthening peace in the Middle East - it's never been quieter, right? I can talk about how much the situation in Gaza has been de-escalated, right? Tip-toe around the settlers like we usually do and it'll all be apple pie, you'll see. This is why you pay me the big bucks, right? I'll get on to Foreign Affairs and we should have it in print by their October 2nd edition."


You really can't begin to imagine how screwed these guys are feeling, but I reckon they could sure use a little 'what if we pretend to tweak healthcare?' inspiration in the room right now.