Traded Adam Saad [traded to Carlton with #48 and #78 for #8 and #87]

Who won this trade?

  • Essendon

    Votes: 10 34.5%

  • Carlton

    Votes: 19 65.5%
  • Total voters
    29

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TheKITC said:
You are absolutely dreaming if you think this is true and are not trolling.

The chances of Essendon re-drafting Saad are effectively zero. Please explain why they would be the first club ever to do it let alone spend a first round pick doing so. Why has that changed because of the Daniher compo?

Saad has cleaned his locker out and his management have reportedly confirmed he is happy to walk to the drafts if Essendon play hard ball for him, when he is OoC. I'm not suggesting he will go to the draft and hope he doesn't, but to say Essendon are holding all of the cards, let alone any is very naive and unfounded.
Click to expand...

I’m merely highlighting the empty threat of Saad “walking” to one of the drafts. In both drafts Essendon have the upper hand so that threat is void. Now that we have two picks ahead of Carlton we have much more to play with.

Not sure how you deem it acceptable that a player can threaten to walk to the draft yet a club can’t threaten to call them out on it when they have the picks available to do so.

At the end of the day the ball is in Carlton’s court. If they want the player they are going to have to pony up what Essendon deem is acceptable compensation. In this case Pick 8 will be the cornerstone of that compensation.
 
Nuggs Bunny said:
And yet for many, the thought of downgrading pick 8 to Essendon and receiving back Saad and change is diabolical despite the end result being practically the same. Go figure.
Click to expand...

It’s not a minor downgrade though. Next years second is roughly 20-25, so 12-17 spots for an uncontracted B-grade half back.

We will do some background trading and end up flipping the Dons a mid-late first.

Easy.
 

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La Dispute said:
Carlton just have to find a single suitor happy to downgrade a first and change for Pick 7.

We then flick that pick to Essendon for Saad and we’re on our merry way.
Click to expand...

Pick 8*.

What makes you think a single suitor will downgrade a first and change for Pick 8* with Carlton when they could do the exact same thing for Pick 6 or 7 with Essendon..?
 
MarkJohnson#1 said:
I’m merely highlighting the empty threat of Saad “walking” to one of the drafts. In both drafts Essendon have the upper hand so that threat is void. Now that we have two picks ahead of Carlton we have much more to play with.

Not sure how you deem it acceptable that a player can threaten to walk to the draft yet a club can’t threaten to call them out on it when they have the picks available to do so.

At the end of the day the ball is in Carlton’s court. If they want the player they are going to have to pony up what Essendon deem is acceptable compensation. In this case Pick 8 will be the cornerstone of that compensation.
Click to expand...

It’s not void at all. It has historically never happened, and if Essendon did decide to take him he’d sit the year out Cam McCarthy style or the move would be veto’d by the AFL.

We have the whip hand, and won’t be budging on a lesser deal for an uncontracted player.
 
TheKITC said:
I'm super confused as to what has changed whatsoever regarding Saad as a result of the Daniher comp...

Is anyone ever going to attempt to answer reasonably why Carlton would pay the highest price in the history of the trade period, for an OoC, HBFer? Especially with what I have posted several times about comparable players in the past.
Click to expand...
If Carlton gave up pick 8 for Saad they’ve lost the plot. I’d be more than happy to see him go to another club at that price. He’s just not worth that.
 
MarkJohnson#1 said:
I’m merely highlighting the empty threat of Saad “walking” to one of the drafts. In both drafts Essendon have the upper hand so that threat is void. Now that we have two picks ahead of Carlton we have much more to play with.
Click to expand...

The Carlton FC has not made that threat, so let's be really clear on that. Saad's management/the media have. I ask again, why would Essendon be the first club to ever re-draft a player that has walked out let alone with a top 10 selection? GC had a pick before Carlton last year and guess where Jack Martin ended up? It is your argument that is void...

MarkJohnson#1 said:
Not sure how you deem it acceptable that a player can threaten to walk to the draft yet a club can’t threaten to call them out on it when they have the picks available to do so.
Click to expand...

See above. You have also deliberately put words in my mouth and misrepresented me, because I've never said anything remotely close to that. Where have I passed judgement on what is acceptable? I've spoke on what is realistic and logical yes. Try again.

MarkJohnson#1 said:
At the end of the day the ball is in Carlton’s court. If they want the player they are going to have to pony up what Essendon deem is acceptable compensation. In this case Pick 8 will be the cornerstone of that compensation.
Click to expand...

That is simply just not the way it works. What are you basing that on? When a player is OoC and walked out publicly, clubs have very little leverage and everyone knows it. Yes, most clubs do generally try to be fair with one another, with one or two obvious exceptions.

Seeing as we are here; why do you think Carlton would pay the highest price in the history of the trade period, for an OoC, HBFer? Especially with what I have posted several times about comparable players in the past.
 
TheKITC said:
I've said multiple times I'm happy to take any bet, from anyone that Carlton will not trade their first pick outright for Saad.

I'll await your response as you are so confident.
Click to expand...
I’m not really as invested in this as you seem to be hence my point on you ending up disappointed. You could very well get a later steak knives pick back but your first pick is most definitely coming our way.
 
MarkJohnson#1 said:
Pick 8*.

What makes you think a single suitor will downgrade a first and change for Pick 8* with Carlton when they could do the exact same thing for Pick 6 or 7 with Essendon..?
Click to expand...

Because those kinds of simple trades happen every single trade period without fail. Only need one club out of 16 to organise a trade, and with the flexibility of future picks it’s a very simple deal to execute.

Essendon can independently trade all they like, we’ll concentrate on making a deal to get the right pick for Saad.
 
TheKITC said:
The Carlton FC has not made that threat, so let's be really clear on that. Saad's management/the media have. I ask again, why would Essendon be the first club to ever re-draft a player that has walked out let alone with a top 10 selection? GC had a pick before Carlton last year and guess where Jack Martin ended up? It is your argument that is void...



See above. You have also deliberately put words in my mouth and misrepresented me, because I've never said anything remotely close to that. Where have I passed judgement on what is acceptable? I've spoke on what is realistic and logical yes. Try again.



That is simply just not the way it works. What are you basing that on? When a player is OoC and walked out publicly, clubs have very little leverage and everyone knows it. Yes, most clubs do generally try to be fair with one another, with one or two obvious exceptions.

Seeing as we are here; why do you think Carlton would pay the highest price in the history of the trade period, for an OoC, HBFer? Especially with what I have posted several times about comparable players in the past.
Click to expand...

Yes, as I stated, “Saad’s threat”.

Why wouldn’t we? What right does a player have to hold a club to ransom but the club can’t flip that back on to the player? It won’t be out of spite, it’s clear we didn’t want Saad to go. Carlton have obviously courted him and need to pay up. It’s an incredibly dangerous precedent to set if a player can nominate a club of their choice and the club they are departing is hamstrung into accepting whatever is thrown at them...

Also, I couldn’t care less what happened with Jack Martin. Is that what Carlton are going to do every year? Bend over clubs and force a trade that a club isn’t happy with? Talk about difficult to deal with...
 
MarkJohnson#1 said:
Pick 8*.

What makes you think a single suitor will downgrade a first and change for Pick 8* with Carlton when they could do the exact same thing for Pick 6 or 7 with Essendon..?
Click to expand...

This is intriguing. Let me get this right?
You’re saying, Dodobird will ensure he beats us to any such deal, by dealing picks 6 & 7 with every opposition club that we work out a deal with for pick 8?
How much would I love to see that ending.......
 

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MarkJohnson#1 said:
It’s an incredibly dangerous precedent to set if a player can nominate a club of their choice and the club they are departing is hamstrung into accepting whatever is thrown at them...
Click to expand...

The precedent has been set long before this particular trade. Out of contract players, especially B-graders, especially flankers, just aren’t worth that much and have never gone for a Top 10 pick.

So it’s really just a case of Essendon overestimating their position and grandstanding for no real joy. Plus the trade becomes impossible once we’ve passed the pick on to another team, leaving Essendon to either accept what we’ve got or do something unprecedented.

We all know what the likely outcome is.
 
SurreyBlue said:
This is intriguing. Let me get this right?
You’re saying, Dodobird will ensure he beats us to any such deal, by dealing picks 6 & 7 with every opposition club that we work out a deal with for pick 8?
How much would I love to see that ending.......
Click to expand...

He doesn’t have to execute it, just let other clubs know that he’ll entertain it and your Pick 8 split is dead in the water.
 
MarkJohnson#1 said:
Yes, as I stated, “Saad’s threat”.
Click to expand...

Except that isn't what you said. You said "highlighting the empty threat of Saad “walking” to one of the drafts". How is it an empty threat when it literally happened less than 12 months ago and a media source has reported that Saad is willing to do so if Essendon play hard ball?

MarkJohnson#1 said:
Why wouldn’t we? What right does a player have to hold a club to ransom but the club can’t flip that back on to the player? It won’t be out of spite, it’s clear we didn’t want Saad to go. Carlton have obviously courted him and need to pay up. It’s an incredibly dangerous precedent to set if a player can nominate a club of their choice and the club they are departing is hamstrung into accepting whatever is thrown at them...
Click to expand...

No, the onus is on you to display why Essendon would. Because no club ever has done it.

I agree Carlton should pay something, but it will not be at the expense of all else. That would be negligent practice from the Carlton recruiting team. As I've said, there is a precedent set for what these situations usually end up working out being. It is when one club is being unreasonable that undesirable outcomes, like a player walking into the draft, occur. It usually gets worked out.

I ask again, why do you think Carlton would pay the highest price in the history of the trade period, for an OoC, HBFer? Especially with what I have posted several times about comparable players in the past.

MarkJohnson#1 said:
Also, I couldn’t care less what happened with Jack Martin. Is that what Carlton are going to do every year? Bend over clubs and force a trade that a club isn’t happy with? Talk about difficult to deal with...
Click to expand...

That is your opinion of Carlton and you are welcome to it. The fact of the matter is Martin is a relevant precedent, because you don't like it does not mean it does not apply as an appropriate point of reference. I brought up Martin because you are claiming that because Essendon have selections before Carlton, which they already did prior to Joe leaving, that Essendon hold all the cards. GC had the first pick in the PSD and didn't take him, despite threatening to. Why did that happen?

It is irrelevant that Essendon have better picks early in the ND in my opinion because I categorically believe that Essendon would not re-draft Saad, especially not with a top selection.
 
La Dispute said:
The precedent has been set long before this particular trade. Out of contract players, especially B-graders, especially flankers, just aren’t worth that much and have never gone for a Top 10 pick.

So it’s really just a case of Essendon overestimating their position and grandstanding for no real joy. Plus the trade becomes impossible once we’ve passed the pick on to another team, leaving Essendon to either accept what we’ve got or do something unprecedented.

We all know what the likely outcome is.
Click to expand...

Yes we know, Carlton are the Kings of extorting that precedent.

Saad is an A-Grader though, champ. Top 3 in our B n F three years running. Robbed of AA honours last year. Hardly a B-Grader.

As I also stated, who is going to take your Pick 8 downgrade when they could take our Pick 6 or 7..?
 
Le Archie said:
Why would I bet? it sounds like we’re saying the same thing? You say the trade won’t just be a straight swap for your first pick.....I agree. I’m sure you will get something back in a pick swap later in the draft.
Click to expand...

We do no agree though.

I think the only way Carlton involve their first, is if Essendon send back a pick in the late teens with Saad (which probably ends up in the 20s if we are honest). I think that's a remote chance of happening personally. I think it's far more likely Carlton look to turn their first into other things and give up a late first/early second for AS.
 
TheKITC said:
Except that isn't what you said. You said "highlighting the empty threat of Saad “walking” to one of the drafts". How is it an empty threat when it literally happened less than 12 months ago and a media source has reported that Saad is willing to do so if Essendon play hard ball?



No, the onus is on you to display why Essendon would. Because no club ever has done it.

I agree Carlton should pay something, but it will not be at the expense of all else. That would be negligent practice from the Carlton recruiting team. As I've said, there is a precedent set for what these situations usually end up working out being. It is when one club is being unreasonable that undesirable outcomes, like a player walking into the draft, occur. It usually gets worked out.

I ask again, why do you think Carlton would pay the highest price in the history of the trade period, for an OoC, HBFer? Especially with what I have posted several times about comparable players in the past.



That is your opinion of Carlton and you are welcome to it. The fact of the matter is Martin is a relevant precedent, because you don't like it does not mean it does not apply as an appropriate point of reference. I brought up Martin because you are claiming that because Essendon have selections before Carlton, which they already did prior to Joe leaving, that Essendon hold all the cards. GC had the first pick in the PSD and didn't take him, despite threatening to. Why did that happen?

It is irrelevant that Essendon have better picks early in the ND in my opinion because I categorically believe that Essendon would not re-draft Saad, especially not with a top selection.
Click to expand...

Can you point out where I said Carlton made the threat? Pretty sure the direct quote is “empty threat of Saad” as you conveniently pointed out.

Last years extortion by Carlton was a different scenario with many different factors at play, and is independent of this trade so not sure how it is relevant.

No, the onus is on Carlton. You’re favourite son SOS even stated this on Trade Radio.

Pick 8 is not at e expense of all else. We’ll throw in a later selection and it’ll be all hunky dory, adequate compensation for a proven A Grade talent in his prime.

We’ll see what happens come trade week, no hard feelings...
 
MarkJohnson#1 said:
Yes we know, Carlton are the Kings of extorting that precedent.

Saad is an A-Grader though, champ. Top 3 in our B n F three years running. Robbed of AA honours last year. Hardly a B-Grader.

As I also stated, who is going to take your Pick 8 downgrade when they could take our Pick 6 or 7..?
Click to expand...

Muscles,

Essendon aren’t a great team, so multiple top 3 finishes should be expected. Even Kyle Langford managed a top 5 finish in Essendon’s BnF this year to show you how pointless and doctored the results are.

Saad missing out on an AA nod (and not even getting a token AA squad nomination) further reinforces our position. It’s academic how highly you rate him until he’s got some league-wide recognition behind him.

And as I said if Essendon want to downgrade an earlier pick they’re free to do so. We will find another club to deal an appropriate pick, and it’s not as though Essendon will be privy to which club we will organise the trade with. Once Pick 8 is gone, it’s not coming back.
 
TheKITC said:
We do no agree though.

I think the only way Carlton involve their first, is if Essendon send back a pick in the late teens with Saad (which probably ends up in the 20s if we are honest). I think that's a remote chance of happening personally. I think it's far more likely Carlton look to turn their first into other things and give up a late first/early second for AS.
Click to expand...
Oh sir, then you’re very misguided. I would happily wager that we get your first pick and that you are going to be left disappointed. How does three goats and my signed gold framed Adam Saad All Australian poster sound?
 
This thread will make for hilarious viewing after this trade is over

Essendon fans are certain we’re getting pick 8, while Carlton fans are sure Saad is an average player and no first will be handed over

For what it’s worth I think we’ll get pick 8 with something going back and Carlton fans will be shocked at how good Saad actually is - Everyone wins
 

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Traded Adam Saad [traded to Carlton with #48 and #78 for #8 and #87]

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