Coach Adam Simpson Megathread est. 2017 - Staying for 2024, Lyon’s Cryin’

[Chris_6678]

Presuming we use every $ of our soft cap currently which I imagine we do.

Call Adam Simpson's salary in the midpoint of the quoted figure, making it $850,000 for the sake of argument.

For the sake of simplicity he's got 2.5 years left on his deal, the remaining 12 edit: 13 (forgot about the extra Gather Round game) games this season, plus '24 and '25, so we'll only cop half of his salary for the remaining half of the season. For the sake of argument his replacement coach is the same salary as Simpson is now, which obviously wouldn't happen, but I need to set the parameters somewhere.

If we pay him out season by season.
$425000 x 1.5 = $637,000
Next year it's 300% for the full season.
$850,000 x 3 = $2.55 million
2025?
$850,000 x 4 = $3.4 million. Half the ******* total soft cap right there.

Pay it out in one total lump sum? Yeah, okay.

He'd be due a total payout of just over $2 million. $2.125m to be precise. Cop one penalty? $4.25 million out at once for next season. 2/3 of the cap.

Just. Not. Feasible.

Plus the cost of a new coach coming in.

 

[ZergMinion]

Presuming we use every $ of our soft cap currently which I imagine we do.

Call Adam Simpson's salary in the midpoint of the quoted figure, making it $850,000 for the sake of argument.

For the sake of simplicity he's got 2.5 years left on his deal, the remaining 12 edit: 13 (forgot about the extra Gather Round game) games this season, plus '24 and '25, so we'll only cop half of his salary for the remaining half of the season. For the sake of argument his replacement coach is the same salary as Simpson is now, which obviously wouldn't happen, but I need to set the parameters somewhere.

If we pay him out season by season.
$425000 x 1.5 = $637,000
Next year it's 300% for the full season.
$850,000 x 3 = $2.55 million
2025?
$850,000 x 4 = $3.4 million. Half the ******* total soft cap right there.

Pay it out in one total lump sum? Yeah, okay.

He'd be due a total payout of just over $2 million. $2.125m to be precise. Cop one penalty? $4.25 million out at once for next season. 2/3 of the cap.

Just. Not. Feasible.

I've been googling because you seem so utterly sure that the fine for going over the cap comes out of next years soft cap, and I just can't find any evidence.

I've even looked through the AFL's rules document:

50.3
Consequence of Club Exceeding Football Department Expenditure Threshold Subject to anything contrary in the FDE Manual or any guidelines issued for a particular case by the Commission or General Counsel, if, in any Football Year, the Football Department Expenditure of any Club (as determined by the AFL) exceeds the Football Department Expenditure Threshold for that Football Year then:
(a) the Club shall pay the Levy to the AFL;
or (b) the AFL may deduct the Levy from any payment or payments that would otherwise may have been made by AFL to the Club, in accordance with the FDE Manual.

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2023/03/01/b34247f1-8c79-46ae-b564-586716a46bfc/Amended-AFL-Rules-effective-28-February-2023.pdf?_ga=2.67304664.819120140.1684116344-1304821802.1558831719

Why are you so sure of this? Where's it coming from? There must be something but I can't find it.

 

[Rowan18]

Presuming we use every $ of our soft cap currently which I imagine we do.

Call Adam Simpson's salary in the midpoint of the quoted figure, making it $850,000 for the sake of argument.

For the sake of simplicity he's got 2.5 years left on his deal, the remaining 12 edit: 13 (forgot about the extra Gather Round game) games this season, plus '24 and '25, so we'll only cop half of his salary for the remaining half of the season. For the sake of argument his replacement coach is the same salary as Simpson is now, which obviously wouldn't happen, but I need to set the parameters somewhere.

If we pay him out season by season.
$425000 x 1.5 = $637,000
Next year it's 300% for the full season.
$850,000 x 3 = $2.55 million
2025?
$850,000 x 4 = $3.4 million. Half the ******* total soft cap right there.

Pay it out in one total lump sum? Yeah, okay.

He'd be due a total payout of just over $2 million. $2.125m to be precise. Cop one penalty? $4.25 million out at once for next season. 2/3 of the cap.

Just. Not. Feasible.

I think you're double counting there. If you pay the tax you don't have the softcap reduced the next year.

We would pay him out in one go - $2.125M to Simmo and we then cop the 50% tax of just over $1M.

Hawks copped this when they sacked Clarko, as he was owed $1M. They ended up negotiating with the AFL on the tax, as it was the first time any club had breached the cap. I never heard what the outcome was.

 

[Rowan18]

I've been googling because you seem so utterly sure that the fine for going over the cap comes out of next years soft cap, and I just can't find any evidence.

I've even looked through the AFL's rules document:

50.3
Consequence of Club Exceeding Football Department Expenditure Threshold Subject to anything contrary in the FDE Manual or any guidelines issued for a particular case by the Commission or General Counsel, if, in any Football Year, the Football Department Expenditure of any Club (as determined by the AFL) exceeds the Football Department Expenditure Threshold for that Football Year then:
(a) the Club shall pay the Levy to the AFL;
or (b) the AFL may deduct the Levy from any payment or payments that would otherwise may have been made by AFL to the Club, in accordance with the FDE Manual.

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2023/03/01/b34247f1-8c79-46ae-b564-586716a46bfc/Amended-AFL-Rules-effective-28-February-2023.pdf?_ga=2.67304664.819120140.1684116344-1304821802.1558831719

Why are you so sure of this? Where's it coming from? There must be something but I can't find it.

The fine can't come out of next year's cap, that's double counting. You'd then be paying fines on top of fines.

Pay a $1M fine in 2024 (so therefore exceed the softcap by $1M for 2025).

Now you have to pay a fine on exceeding the softcap by $1M in 2025 (ie a fine on a fine on a fine).

 

[thebutterflyeffect]

Presuming we use every $ of our soft cap currently which I imagine we do.

Call Adam Simpson's salary in the midpoint of the quoted figure, making it $850,000 for the sake of argument.

For the sake of simplicity he's got 2.5 years left on his deal, the remaining 12 edit: 13 (forgot about the extra Gather Round game) games this season, plus '24 and '25, so we'll only cop half of his salary for the remaining half of the season. For the sake of argument his replacement coach is the same salary as Simpson is now, which obviously wouldn't happen, but I need to set the parameters somewhere.

If we pay him out season by season.
$425000 x 1.5 = $637,000
Next year it's 300% for the full season.
$850,000 x 3 = $2.55 million
2025?
$850,000 x 4 = $3.4 million. Half the ******* total soft cap right there.

Pay it out in one total lump sum? Yeah, okay.

He'd be due a total payout of just over $2 million. $2.125m to be precise. Cop one penalty? $4.25 million out at once for next season. 2/3 of the cap.

Just. Not. Feasible.

If you are right here and from reading the other posts that is somewhat debatable it makes our club management seem absolutely atrocious. We have never performed worse over a sustained period yet our coach is as secure as a coach could possibly be.

Not advocating for a sacking but a well run club shouldn't be backing itself into a corner

 

[BrotherDodge]

If we really want Simpson to go, surely the two parties could come to some sort of arrangement that doesn't blow the entire soft cap? If he refuses to resign, just change the locks at MRP and cut off the power. Get the IT guys to cancel his passwords. Replace all the coffee machines with a big tin of International Roast, I dunno.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Hasn’t been 24 hours yet.

Ok, it’s been over 24 hours now.

I’ll be fairly disappointed (not surprised, but still disappointed) if it gets to close of business today and the only acknowledgement of the worst loss in club history is that 50 second clip of Stocks fishing for quotes about how important the fans are.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

If we really want Simpson to go, surely the two parties could come to some sort of arrangement that doesn't blow the entire soft cap? If he refuses to resign, just change the locks at MRP and cut off the power. Get the IT guys to cancel his passwords. Replace all the coffee machines with a big tin of International Roast, I dunno.

Give him a job at Hungry Jack's

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

Ok, it’s been over 24 hours now.

I’ll be fairly disappointed (not surprised, but still disappointed) if it gets to close of business today and the only acknowledgement of the worst loss in club history is that 50 second clip of Stocks fishing for quotes about how important the fans are.

Club is just dangling old Simmo out to deflect from the colossal **** up of list management and injuries.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

If we really want Simpson to go, surely the two parties could come to some sort of arrangement that doesn't blow the entire soft cap? If he refuses to resign, just change the locks at MRP and cut off the power. Get the IT guys to cancel his passwords. Replace all the coffee machines with a big tin of International Roast, I dunno.

And just ignore the court papers when he sues for breach of contract?

 

[BrotherDodge]

And just ignore the court papers when he sues for breach of contract?

Hmm, okay. I guess you are the law-talking guy.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Presuming we use every $ of our soft cap currently which I imagine we do.

Call Adam Simpson's salary in the midpoint of the quoted figure, making it $850,000 for the sake of argument.

For the sake of simplicity he's got 2.5 years left on his deal, the remaining 12 edit: 13 (forgot about the extra Gather Round game) games this season, plus '24 and '25, so we'll only cop half of his salary for the remaining half of the season. For the sake of argument his replacement coach is the same salary as Simpson is now, which obviously wouldn't happen, but I need to set the parameters somewhere.

If we pay him out season by season.
$425000 x 1.5 = $637,000
Next year it's 300% for the full season.
$850,000 x 3 = $2.55 million
2025?
$850,000 x 4 = $3.4 million. Half the ******* total soft cap right there.

Pay it out in one total lump sum? Yeah, okay.

He'd be due a total payout of just over $2 million. $2.125m to be precise. Cop one penalty? $4.25 million out at once for next season. 2/3 of the cap.

Just. Not. Feasible.

I wasn't necessarily talking about using it to pay out Simpson. I suggested we head hunt some people for departments within the club like drafting, S&C and player development. But in any case, you can go over the cap you just have to pay a tax on it. It is not some red line where you get banished from the AFL for eternity for crossing it. You just have to pay the freight on it.

And given the tens of millions we have in the bank, plus likely other illiquid assets on the Balance Sheet, what would you rather we did with that money? If we are not willing to use to help us get out of this hole now then when would we ever spend any of it on anything? What is the point of making a profit and putting money in the bank for a rainy day if you are still not willing to spend it even if you get hit by a hurricane?

Plus there is the potential cost of what doing nothing might be long term. If we don't get out of this hole then eventually people will stop going to games and the club will start making losses. Going over the cap and spending a bit extra now might be a good investment if it shortens the rebuild timeframe and makes the bottoming out a big less steep and painful.

 

[ziad]

Club is just dangling old Simmo out to deflect from the colossal * up of list management and injuries.

This is absolurtely the case.
And for all the talk of our worst defeat - none were obviously present for our last, infact both GF defeats by the Hawks. At full strength.
We have had simoplar beltings by the Swans at the SCG over the years - all at full strength.

 

[W.C. Fry]

I fail to see how we can get anywhere close to the minimum salary cap we need to spend on players.
Should "sign" Simmo as a player and pay him out that way. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

I fail to see how we can get anywhere close to the minimum salary cap we need to spend on players.
Should "sign" Simmo as a player and pay him out that way. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

Simmo already our best player.

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

This is absolurtely the case.
And for all the talk of our worst defeat - none were obviously present for our last, infact both GF defeats by the Hawks. At full strength.
We have had simoplar beltings by the Swans at the SCG over the years - all at full strength.

Yep. I recall getting smashed by Swans and Cats with a much fitter list. Clearly Simmo is the sacrificial insulation for the list management and shithousery in terms of fitness at the club.

 

[DanWCE]

Simmo already our best player.

EaGlEs aRE ToO oLd

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

This is absolurtely the case.
And for all the talk of our worst defeat - none were obviously present for our last, infact both GF defeats by the Hawks. At full strength.
We have had simoplar beltings by the Swans at the SCG over the years - all at full strength.

The combined margin in those two grand finals doesn’t equal yesterday’s margin.

We’ve had one belting at the SCG over 72 points. It was in 1987 by 130 points, one of the few losses bigger in margin than yesterday. We were a fledgling side and Sydney played finals.

Yesterday was a contest between two of the clear bottom three teams this year. And it was a contest in name only because we got spanked. It wasn’t a top side spanking a bottom side. It was one of the non-competitive teams of 2023 making one of the other non-competitive teams of 2023 look like they belong several grades down.

That’s why people are calling it our worst loss ever. Point to bad days at Kardinia Park and bad days at the SCG all you like. In context, yesterday was clearly the worst we’ve ever shown.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

The combined margin in those two grand finals doesn’t equal yesterday’s margin.

We’ve had one belting at the SCG over 72 points. It was in 1987 by 130 points, one of the few losses bigger in margin than yesterday. We were a fledgling side and Sydney played finals.

Yesterday was a contest between two of the clear bottom three teams this year. And it was a contest in name only because we got spanked. It wasn’t a top side spanking a bottom side. It was one of the non-competitive teams of 2023 making one of the other non-competitive teams of 2023 look like they belong several grades down.

That’s why people are calling it our worse loss ever. Point to bad days at Kardinia Park and bad days at the SCG all you like. In context, yesterday was clearly the worst we’ve ever shown.

100% this

 

[ZergMinion]

I fail to see how we can get anywhere close to the minimum salary cap we need to spend on players.
Should "sign" Simmo as a player and pay him out that way. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

This is uncomfortably close to genius.

 

[Boohemian]

New coach isn't going to change anything, here. The list is cooked, and the injuries are exacerbating current issues. Went all or nothing with the Kelly trade and didn't worry about what the repercussions would be. Spoilers - we ended up with nothing.

We've struggled to identify midfield talent for the best part of the past 10 years. Yeo coming on as strongly as he did helped to paper over that inadequacy, but we haven't drafted young midfielders. We've been screaming about it on this board. List management and recruiters need looking at.

Sacking the coach will bring on the warm fuzzies and the delusion of doing something while the rot remains at the club.

 

[Avalor]

I don't hear or see anything of our 2 assistant coaches - is anyone else surprised by this? Matthew Knights

Matthew Knights

Age

53

Ht

178cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

12.0

4star

HB

9.3

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

18.4

5star

K

10.8

4star

HB

7.6

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

and Schofield - do they even exist?
Surely they should be taking some of the heat off Simmo.

 

[Bender_]

If we really want Simpson to go, surely the two parties could come to some sort of arrangement that doesn't blow the entire soft cap? If he refuses to resign, just change the locks at MRP and cut off the power. Get the IT guys to cancel his passwords. Replace all the coffee machines with a big tin of International Roast, I dunno.

 

[new breed]

I don't hear or see anything of our 2 assistant coaches - is anyone else surprised by this? Matthew Knights and Schofield - do they even exist?
Surely they should be taking some of the heat off Simmo.

Schofield often represents WC on radio segments recently .
If WCE change the coach maybe Schofield is the man as an interim coach trial for 18 months ......saves money after 18 months still no good we go for Clarkson or similar big name coach .

 

[Rowan18]

The combined margin in those two grand finals doesn’t equal yesterday’s margin.

We’ve had one belting at the SCG over 72 points. It was in 1987 by 130 points, one of the few losses bigger in margin than yesterday. We were a fledgling side and Sydney played finals.

Yesterday was a contest between two of the clear bottom three teams this year. And it was a contest in name only because we got spanked. It wasn’t a top side spanking a bottom side. It was one of the non-competitive teams of 2023 making one of the other non-competitive teams of 2023 look like they belong several grades down.

That’s why people are calling it our worst loss ever. Point to bad days at Kardinia Park and bad days at the SCG all you like. In context, yesterday was clearly the worst we’ve ever shown.

It was also the weakest team we've ever fielded. You could argue it was one of the weakest ever fielded by any club in the AFL.

I was travelling and decided not to make time to watch the game once I heard we'd been hit by Flu and TB was out. I knew we'd lose. I wasn't expecting 100 points, but this one was lost by availability.

I'm still not understanding what all the angst is about. Yes, I am beyond frustrated with the player availability, but no coach ever could have got a win out of that team we fielded yesterday.