Play Nice Admin, Finance, Members, Ratings, Crowds, Policies - Please refer to each sports own boards

[lethal03]

I am only being sensitive to your sensitivities

Also playing league against equally matched physicalities can be a lot less bruising then playing a proper game against a team that flogs you.

In one year, we played pennant hills who had a bunch of AFL players in there team and despite our high hopes going into the game we got belted 150-0 or something, it wasnt a particular bruising a fair, just like a game of forcings back or kicking a footy around during PE would not be. Go up against a school of tongans when you are 14 and 50kgs against some 14 year old bearded monsters playing at 80-90 kgs + and it becomes a less popular affair. In any event, the point is redundant as we all not the NRL is run to poorly to ever bother trying to get a decent amount of school kids outside of nsw/qld to play the game anyways.

A scoreline as that would surely be a record at any level. Disappointing considering your "impartial" posting, but I call bullshit.

 

[papabear]

A scoreline as that would surely be a record at any level. Disappointing considering your "impartial" posting, but I call bullshit.

ummm ok, of course I dont remember the exact scoreline it was over 15 years ago. Either it was bad, I am pretty sure they broke triple figures easily and we didnt score.

I am not impartial, no one is, but I think my posts provide a lot more balance then some others.

 

[papabear]

Haha, seriously? You came on here because you took offense that people were joking about camera angles at rugby league games to avoid empty seats were like balding blokes with comb-overs!

I think you are confused between me being offended and me believing a position is wrong and unsubstantiated.

 

[papabear]

and therin lies your problem chump. You think its 'propagander' and brainwashing, when we are simply very proud of OUR sport. its not 'AFL' , its our indigenous, unique own thing that's all our own. AFL gets the reflected glory for sure (and rightly so), but its not the source of the glory any more than it is the source of the attendances. OUR game is and WE are.

Really, come on.

Indigenous? What like the indigenous people played it and past it onto some victorians in a rainbow serpent ceremony? I thought it was just a game made by an irish bloke for a cricket training that due to its popularity took on a life of its own.

Its not AFL? hate to break it you, but that is how "our" games governing body marketed itself to the market it has so desperately sold itself to over the past 15 years. But I am happy to refer to it as AF AR whatever name you want to call the game where you kick a ball between four sticks 6 points for going between the big ones and 1 point for going between the small ones. Whatever floats your boat it doesnt bother me.

As for the national pride bit, again a very successful marketing campaign from your governing body. It isnt particular effective on me, I am a firm believer that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. But if you think that marketing campaign is a view shared by every australian you are sorely sorely mistaken.

Most australians dont give a shit about sport and would not believe there was something that belonged to only australians by way of sport.

Maybe you are just joking and you dont believe marketing slogans and campaigns as facts...

But if you do, here are some other ones for you.

If you want to go to heaven, better get to learn how to play rugby, because rugby is the game they play in heaven.

If you ever get sick of playing games that arent the greatest game of all and decide you want to have a crack at the greatest game of all, rugby league might be for you.

If you decide you to go to another planet to show them what we do on earth, get your shinnies on because football / soccer is the "world game"

I appreciate that the internet like the world has little enclaves like churches where you can preach any old story and have the believers drinking the kool aid, but unfortunately, not everyone is going to drink you kool aid so you have a choice.

Keep shouting at the bloke and force the red pill down your throat.
or take the blue pill.

 

[papabear]

That's simply demonstrably, factually untrue. Seating considerations are more or less the same all codes: we all prefer the wings, then ends, then pockets.
However, due to the lack of crowd cover NRL broadcast crews constantly drop the framing lower, tries to avoid showing the ends at all whenever possible and sticks to the front 5-10 rows of the sides. They never do the big 'over the ground' shots, they never do the 'from up in the stands amongst the fans' shots that AFL do, when they do they cross to the 'on the field' commentators and onfield post match interviews, they frame as tightly as they can and have to set up the angles to avoid blule pastic seats being the background. The AFL coverage is almost the exact opposite.. it wants to show off the grandeur of the stands and the crowd within which the interview is taking place and often rotates the camera around the interview to pan the background.

Why are you trying to educate me on something I know more about then you, when I have already pointed at you are wrong.

Every sport has better viewer seats. Depending on age/preference and the game will see where you end up. The difference between sports between sideline / corner / behind the goal posts is massive.

In any event with respect to the NRL the camera will run along the sideline, I have already explained leichhardt how that is demonstratably untrue.

Some more examples for you

Homebush.

Nobody sits on the first five or so rows, because the rake is so poor (I think they are fixing this) yet as you say the camera generally shows the first 5-10 rows which are pretty empty, imo the largest crowd bit in a lot of homebush games is in the corner along the fence between GA and higher priced tickets in the GA section. There "pockets" are very rarely shown in game, they might pan there or two members when a try is scored to show someone cheering but in the generally coverage for 70 minutes of the game its showing the emptier seats along the front.

The same theory applies to the SFS and but only grows exponentially due to wet weather as the higher seats are under cover.

Another good one is Penrith, the camera runs along the members stand line same as leichhardt, the other side are the purchased game day tickets and I imagine some members.. ends are GA.. the krispy kreme side is always more full as one I think it has more members and its closer to the entrance, yet the camera runs down that side, showing the less full side for the game?? why? because thats how it is all set up with the gear and eletrical outlets etc.

But you are right the AFL does like to self indulge and pan to its crowds, more then say the English premier league or the NFL or any other sport that gets good crowds. although it rarely pans to the top tier of the MCG unless its full???

Yet you try and argue that RL which has poor crowds is trying to do some fake shit, or show poor crowds to be good, or soccer is doing the same??

You might be able to go to a KKK meeting and convince those blokes that the whiteman is a master race. But fortunately Bigfooty is still letting me post and hasnt reached that level of ridiculousness yet.

 

[papabear]

Yep, every time

I was thinking about my cousin who loves jumping off bridges when I posted that too.

 

[papabear]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. 1- AFL supporters generally speaking have more passion than those that follow league. 2 - They are willing to spend big $$$ to support their team, they are prepared to go and watch their team.

League has enough to worry about. The NRL annual report released yesterday - makes for some interesting reading. Especially the decline in registered players - the reason why the NRL wanted to withhold a portion of the grant money to clubs.

1 - is hard to measure but there might be some truth to it.
2 - is evidenced by member and crowd numbers, the AFL organisation should be proud of what it has built here.

Though, I tend to think the success is a result of the businesses actions not the customers.

I.e. maccas is succesful because they run a better ship then hungry jacks. Not because Maccas has more discerning or better customers then hungry jacks.

 

[AliceCat]

The NRL Annual Report has been available for months.

Ha..whoops so it has!

 

[Professor Knowall]

1 - is hard to measure but there might be some truth to it.
2 - is evidenced by member and crowd numbers, the AFL organisation should be proud of what it has built here.

Though, I tend to think the success is a result of the businesses actions not the customers. ...

Business actions??? Do you seriously believe that Australian Footballs success in attracting the biggest crowds over the past 50 years (refer post 1791) or more is merely "... as a result of the businesses actions ...". The fact is that well before the VFL morphed into the AFL, crowds at AF games (and not just in Melbourne but the SANFL, WAFL and heck even some country leagues in relative terms) attracted large crowds. This long history of high attendance at AF games in different states and over such a long period of time and under a myriad of different administrators cannot possibly be merely attributed to 'business actions'.

You couldn't be more wrong. Anyone who has lived in both the AF and rugby 'areas' of this country would readily accept that AF supporters tend to be more passionate - and often by some margin. It's always been thus for generations and has nothing to do with 'business actions' of administrators - and everything to do with the supporters of the game.

 

[papabear]

Business actions??? Do you seriously believe that Australian Footballs success in attracting the biggest crowds over the past 50 years (refer post 1791) or more is merely "... as a result of the businesses actions ...". The fact is that well before the VFL morphed into the AFL, crowds at AF games (and not just in Melbourne but the SANFL, WAFL and heck even some country leagues in relative terms) attracted large crowds. This long history of high attendance at AF games in different states and over such a long period of time and under a myriad of different administrators cannot possibly be merely attributed to 'business actions'.

You couldn't be more wrong. Anyone who has lived in both the AF and rugby 'areas' of this country would readily accept that AF supporters tend to be more passionate - and often by some margin. It's always been thus for generations and has nothing to do with 'business actions' of administrators - and everything to do with the supporters of the game.

I couldnt be more right.

I just maybe hit on your self esteem, perhaps as a person you take a lot of self esteem from the fact that you support x team or x code. Good on you mate.

The VFL / AFL have made several good decisions that has materially helped it over the years (I am sure it has made some bad ones to):-
- Moving to a national competition
- Moving the swans to sydney
- other expansion
- It pours money and support into its juniors.
- It does a very good job with the media.

I am sure also the clubs administrators also played a big role in getting members to sign up etc as opposed to relying on pokies like RL clubs.

I also lump in with the administrators the volunteers / clubs etc all the people officially associated with the game, of which the AFL have far far more then RL or RU.

All of these things have had a material effect on the financial performance of the game.

Obviously the supporters have to pay, but it is the business that has to convince you to show up to its game and buy its product.

Additionally, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought there were many times over the AFLs history when the competition was not as financially successful as what it is now, and I again assume that was because of the actions of the people running the ship at the time , not because "our" people lost their passion or the product was any shitter

In terms of post 1791, wasnt the game made in 1857 - http://www.afl.com.au/afl-hq/the-afl-explained/history

From the propaganda machine itself?

the success of a sporting product IMO has most of its roots in the organisations ability to get the local media and people to buy into its product then the actual product itself.

I think if you showed AFL to most people around the world they would agree that the AFL is a great example of the point I made above. But you can see examples of it in Rugby League, rugby Union, soccer, NHL, NBA... swimming...cricket..

I mean come on people.

 

[Professor Knowall]

... the AFL does like to self indulge and pan to its crowds...

The AFL? I didn't realise the AFL did the camera work for C7 and Fox.

It's generally agreed that a big crowd adds a lot to any sporting telecast and as the AFL has the crowds it's only logical to add this to the spectacle thus telecast - and without the need to also add fake crowd noise.

 

[papabear]

The AFL? I didn't realise the AFL did the camera work for C7 and Fox.

It's generally agreed that a big crowd adds a lot to any sporting telecast and as the AFL has the crowds it's only logical to add this to the spectacle thus telecast - and without the need to also add fake crowd noise.

Channel 7 you are right, but be finnicky, if it makes you feel like a big man!

 

[papabear]

The AFL? I didn't realise the AFL did the camera work for C7 and Fox.

It's generally agreed that a big crowd adds a lot to any sporting telecast and as the AFL has the crowds it's only logical to add this to the spectacle thus telecast - and without the need to also add fake crowd noise.

Or those moronic noisy clappy things.

You can hang shit on any game.

 

[jatz14]

A scoreline as that would surely be a record at any level. Disappointing considering your "impartial" posting, but I call bullshit.

Umm, no. Scoring records are more in the line 300 to 0. Amateur club I played with had a WAAFL record at one point and they kicked over 40 goals. Seen a lot higher than that.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[lethal03]

Umm, no. Scoring records are more in the line 300 to 0. Amateur club I played with had a WAAFL record at one point and they kicked over 40 goals. Seen a lot higher than that.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

Rugby league?

 

[workhorse]

I've tried keeping up with the discussion but have missed the last few pages and don't have time to read, can I ask what we are actually arguing at the moment?

 

[papabear]

I've tried keeping up with the discussion but have missed the last few pages and don't have time to read, can I ask what we are actually arguing at the moment?

Whether the success of a business comes down to the actions of that business or to that of the customers.

Or maybe there are some people out there who still dont believe AFL / NRL /NBA whatever are not businesses but magical mythical sports above the lowly money grabbing we all do.

 

[papabear]

Rugby league?

my comment was in respect of a game of AFL I played not Rugby League, I thought that was obvious from the post?

 

[NoobPie]

Whether the success of a business comes down to the actions of that business or to that of the customers.

Or maybe there are some people out there who still dont believe AFL / NRL /NBA whatever are not businesses but magical mythical sports above the lowly money grabbing we all do.

You are assuming a rather silly dichotomy of "business" and "magical mythical sports"

Of course the AFL operates on a commercial basis. This is very very different to saying that the administrators, say, are only interested in profits.

The AFL is run on a commercial basis by AF people who are motivated by the long term growth and health of the game. People can argue how effectively they achieve that, to what extent they can be prone to putting the "means" before "ends" and even to what extent shady conflicts on interest may exist at the margin.

Ultimately though using the language of "business" and "customers" while implying that that a sporting league - particularly one that is NFP from the professional level down - is no different to a burger franchise chain just shows a supreme shallowness of understanding.

 

[Professor Knowall]

I couldnt be more right.

I just maybe hit on your own self esteem, perhaps as a person you take a lot of self esteem from the fact that you support x team or x code. Good on you mate...

What's this - troll tactic #17.25? Methinks most here could question your self esteem in posting in an AFL forum though you clearly don't like it much - and showing such poor manners. Please try debating the issues without snarky insults please.

... The VFL / AFL have made several good decisions that has materially helped it over the years (I am sure it has made some bad ones to):-
- Moving to a national competition
- Moving the swans to sydney
- other expansion
- It pours money and support into its juniors.
- It does a very good job with the media.

I am sure also the clubs administrators also played a big role in getting members to sign up etc as opposed to relying on pokies like RL clubs.
I also lump in with the administrators the volunteers / clubs etc all the people officially associated with the game, of which the AFL have far far more then RL or RU.
All of these things have had a material effect on the financial performance of the game.

Obviously the supporters have to pay, but it is the business that has to convince you to show up to its game and buy its product...

Much of the above is true - but only relates to the last 30 years or so. None of it explains the fact (documented many times over) that AF has attracted unusually large crowds from as far back as the 1870's. No-one would accept that AF has been continuously well managed over a period of 140 years and across multiple states. The passion in its fans was established far before the AFL was established as a national competition. This passion is driven by the game itself, not its administrators (who come and go and may be good or poor, just like in any other sport)

... Additionally, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought there were many times over the AFLs history when the competition was not as financially successful as what it is now, and I again assume that was because of the actions of the people running the ship at the time , not because "our" people lost their passion or the product was any shitter

In terms of post 1791, wasnt the game made in 1857 - http://www.afl.com.au/afl-hq/the-afl-explained/history ...

That's precisely my point! The game started in 1858 and many has there been times the main state leagues, including the VFL, and/or individual clubs, have financially struggled - or just poorly administered in general. Until the last 30 years, footy league administrators were mostly ex-footballers with limited skills. But the game still thrived, attracting big crowds, because of the "passion" and "product" (to use your words)

... the success of a sporting product IMO has most of its roots in the organisations ability to get the local media and people to buy into its product then the actual product itself...

And then, after seemingly getting to the right conclusion, you add this bit. To repeat you very own words just above "...there were many times over the AFLs history when the competition was not as financially successful as what it is now, and I again assume that was because of the actions of the people running the ship at the time , not because "our" people lost their passion or the product was any shitter ..." (bolded by me)

So here even you agree that in the case of AF, its the game itself (which includes its history and inter-generational support) that most provides for its success.

I mean come on papabear - just look at your own words![/QUOTE]

 

[NoobPie]

I've tried keeping up with the discussion but have missed the last few pages and don't have time to read, can I ask what we are actually arguing at the moment?

We're jumping around a bit

-whether camera work at empty rugby league stadiums are like a bald man's comb over
-whether rugby league is too tough for AF kids
-whether the AFL's success is purely based on the business skills of its administrator
-whether the AFL has corrupted the justice system
-whether afl fans are sheltered and like religious zealots with no capacity for other sports

 

[Professor Knowall]

Channel 7 you are right, but be finnicky, if it makes you feel like a big man!

For the second time - manners please.

 

[workhorse]

Whether the success of a business comes down to the actions of that business or to that of the customers.

Or maybe there are some people out there who still dont believe AFL / NRL /NBA whatever are not businesses but magical mythical sports above the lowly money grabbing we all do.

We're jumping around a bit

-whether camera work at empty rugby league stadiums are like a bald man's comb over
-whether rugby league is too tough for AF kids
-whether the AFL's success is purely based on the business skills of its administrator
-whether the AFL has corrupted the justice system
-whether afl fans are sheltered and like religious zealots with no capacity for other sports

Fair enough, thanks.

I agree on the basic premise that business success is due to the actions of that business. However referring to a sporting body/organisation, such as the AFL or NRL, as simply 'a business' is too facile, in my opinion.

 

[papabear]

Fair enough, thanks.

I agree on the basic premise that business success is due to the actions of that business. However referring to a sporting body/organisation, such as the AFL or NRL, as simply 'a business' is too facile, in my opinion.

Perhaps, I am happy to use the word organisation.

But in my world business is a broad word that covers government bodies, to religous institutions , to private organisations to sporting bodies.

 

[papabear]

For the second time - manners please.

If I wanted manners lessons, I wouldnt go to a sporting event, a sporting internet board, nor would I ask for them from someone who referred to me as a troll.

The foul stench of hypocrisy from your posts is odious.