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NoobPie said:
You are assuming a rather silly dichotomy of "business" and "magical mythical sports"

Of course the AFL operates on a commercial basis. This is very very different to saying that the administrators, say, are only interested in profits.

The AFL is run on a commercial basis by AF people who are motivated by the long term growth and health of the game. People can argue how effectively they achieve that, to what extent they can be prone to putting the "means" before "ends" and even to what extent shady conflicts on interest may exist at the margin.

Ultimately though using the language of "business" and "customers" while implying that that a sporting league - particularly one that is NFP from the professional level down - is no different to a burger franchise chain just shows a supreme shallowness of understanding.
Click to expand...
I am not trying to belittle or simplify the NRL / AFL or any sporting franchise by comparing it to maccas or HJ

I use that as my comparison to try and remove some of the inherent bias I and others have.
 
Professor Knowall said:
1 - What's this - troll tactic #17.25? Methinks most here could question your self esteem in posting in an AFL forum though you clearly don't like it much - and showing such poor manners. Please try debating the issues without snarky insults please.
2 - Much of the above is true - but only relates to the last 30 years or so. None of it explains the fact (documented many times over) that AF has attracted unusually large crowds from as far back as the 1870's. No-one would accept that AF has been continuously well managed over a period of 140 years and across multiple states.
3 - The passion in its fans was established far before the AFL was established as a national competition. This passion is driven by the game itself, not its administrators (who come and go and may be good or poor, just like in any other sport)
4 - That's precisely my point! The game started in 1858 and many has there been times the main state leagues, including the VFL, and/or individual clubs, have financially struggled - or just poorly administered in general. Until the last 30 years, footy league administrators were mostly ex-footballers with limited skills. But the game still thrived, attracting big crowds, because of the "passion" and "product" (to use your words)
5- And then, after seemingly getting to the right conclusion, you add this bit. To repeat you very own words just above "...there were many times over the AFLs history when the competition was not as financially successful as what it is now, and I again assume that was because of the actions of the people running the ship at the time , not because "our" people lost their passion or the product was any shitter ..." (bolded by me)

So here even you agree that in the case of AF, its the game itself (which includes its history and inter-generational support) that most provides for its success.

I mean come on papabear - just look at your own words!
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[/QUOTE]
My quoting skills and time do not match yours, so forgive me the simple formatting.

1 - see post above
2 - The organisers of those clubs / leagues / games obviously did a very good job, I am sure there was differences in crowd levels between those clubs and leagues built on the back of
- success of that side / league (which is a large part to do with the administrators)
- other promotional / organisational / business type decisions made by those people, ie (assuming no competition) if you base an AFL club in a town of 10,000 people and get 1000 people to a game, or an AFL club in 100,000 pop town and get 10,000 people to your game, the second club is more successful due to the due diligence of those planning and putting that club in, or luck of those putting that club in... not because of the passion of those ppl.
3 - I never said peoples passions were developed by the organisation currently administering the game. You are arguing by yourself on this one.
4 - If the club is struggling financially, or the league struggling financially imo the game in the areas / spaces those clubs/leagues represent is struggling. No sport nor the AFL or any other one has been one constant line of success.
5 - The game , the VFL / VFA / AFL has undergone many evolutions, pretty similar to rugby league in this respect, but its popularity in terms of people spending money on merch / going to games/ watching on tv (not so relevant a long time ago) has gone up and down not due to a lack of passion of one individual supporter / or shit product. Passionate rusted on supporters always support there teams no matter what, but its popularity to the general populus went up and down I imagine due to the decisions made by those running the game. See wikipedia, I imagine written and edited by people very fond of AFL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Football_League#Formative_years_.281877.E2.80.931896.29
 
An interesting thought process to me is if:-
the AFL, deciding in its march to conquer the world, thought the following changes were required to increase the profitibility, exposure and engagement of the global audience to its great game decided:-
- it needed to play on soccer type fields so more fields available for kids
- decided you didnt need to ball up if you got tackled, you got six of them before you gave the ball away
- passing forward makes it to easy to score, only backwards from now on thanks.
- kicking between goals is to easy, only drop kicks from now on, but if you must have more points you need to put the ball down pass the defending teams line for four.
- easier to get a team of 13 then 17
- you wanna get a big boy down better go for his ankles, thats ok.
and so on and so forth, would you still support St Kilda Saints / the AFL or whomever it is you support.

Alternatively if you support a particular RLFC
The NRL decides the AFL has everything about its rules right, as the AFL is more popular and generally has its shit together so it decides
we are playing on cricket ovals.
our players need to run and cover more space as opposed to relying on strength power, allowing forward passes, getting rid of offside rules
The name of the game is football, more kicking, no more tries and six points for putting it between the sticks and can the cross bar.
Also if you just miss by a little bit you should get something, 1 point for you.
Passing is too easy, you have to kick with your hands,handballs only.
If someone can catch a kick respect the man, piss off and give him a free kick
and so on and so forth
do those supporters still support there club.. will "AFL" supporters now support the flashy new "NRL" which is the same as AFL just run by different blokes.

All interesting thoughts, for me atleast.
 

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papabear said:
An interesting thought process to me is if:-
the AFL, deciding in its march to conquer the world, thought the following changes were required to increase the profitibility, exposure and engagement of the global audience to its great game decided:-
- it needed to play on soccer type fields so more fields available for kids
- decided you didnt need to ball up if you got tackled, you got six of them before you gave the ball away
- passing forward makes it to easy to score, only backwards from now on thanks.
- kicking between goals is to easy, only drop kicks from now on, but if you must have more points you need to put the ball down pass the defending teams line for four.
- easier to get a team of 13 then 17
- you wanna get a big boy down better go for his ankles, thats ok.
and so on and so forth, would you still support St Kilda Saints / the AFL or whomever it is you support.

Alternatively if you support a particular RLFC
The NRL decides the AFL has everything about its rules right, as the AFL is more popular and generally has its shit together so it decides
we are playing on cricket ovals.
our players need to run and cover more space as opposed to relying on strength power, allowing forward passes, getting rid of offside rules
The name of the game is football, more kicking, no more tries and six points for putting it between the sticks and can the cross bar.
Also if you just miss by a little bit you should get something, 1 point for you.
Passing is too easy, you have to kick with your hands,handballs only.
If someone can catch a kick respect the man, piss off and give him a free kick
and so on and so forth
do those supporters still support there club.. will "AFL" supporters now support the flashy new "NRL" which is the same as AFL just run by different blokes.

All interesting thoughts, for me atleast.
Click to expand...

What a rambling pile of garbage.

Keep your thoughts to yourself next time.
 
papabear said:
An interesting thought process to me is if:-
the AFL, deciding in its march to conquer the world, thought the following changes were required to increase the profitibility, exposure and engagement of the global audience to its great game decided:-
- it needed to play on soccer type fields so more fields available for kids
- decided you didnt need to ball up if you got tackled, you got six of them before you gave the ball away
- passing forward makes it to easy to score, only backwards from now on thanks.
- kicking between goals is to easy, only drop kicks from now on, but if you must have more points you need to put the ball down pass the defending teams line for four.
- easier to get a team of 13 then 17
- you wanna get a big boy down better go for his ankles, thats ok.
and so on and so forth, would you still support St Kilda Saints / the AFL or whomever it is you support.

Alternatively if you support a particular RLFC
The NRL decides the AFL has everything about its rules right, as the AFL is more popular and generally has its shit together so it decides
we are playing on cricket ovals.
our players need to run and cover more space as opposed to relying on strength power, allowing forward passes, getting rid of offside rules
The name of the game is football, more kicking, no more tries and six points for putting it between the sticks and can the cross bar.
Also if you just miss by a little bit you should get something, 1 point for you.
Passing is too easy, you have to kick with your hands,handballs only.
If someone can catch a kick respect the man, piss off and give him a free kick
and so on and so forth
do those supporters still support there club.. will "AFL" supporters now support the flashy new "NRL" which is the same as AFL just run by different blokes.

All interesting thoughts, for me atleast.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, I understand the point your trying to argue, but this is an inconceivable and irrelevant hypothetical that adds nothing of substance to the discussion.
 
workhorse said:
With all due respect, I understand the point your trying to argue, but this is an inconceivable and irrelevant hypothetical that adds nothing of substance to the discussion.
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Not much of substance is discussed on an internet forum!! :)
 
papabear said:
From my anecdotal perspective.
AFL runs its school programs much better then any other game, and gets far better numbers because of it.

I went to a state school which played union and for one game a year we played in an AFL knock out comp.

Nobody gave a shit about it, it was time off school.

But it was run because the AFL is a well run organisation.

I also think either rugby code and rugby league in particular would have trouble, convincing a school of kids who grew up traditionally playing "less physical" sports, and I say that kindly, because less face it I would have preferred to be more blunt there but there is some sensitivity over my posts here so I am trying to be more sesntive to my audience. To go out and potentially get smashed in a game of league is unlikely and union no one will understand WTF is going on, although that didnt stop us with AFL (though imo union is more complicated rule wise then AFL)
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Just after GC recruited K. Hunt, both Laurie Daley & Greg Brentnall (ex Canterbury, NSW & ARL player), both of whom had also previously played AF in the Riverina, were quoted as saying AF was equally as physically demanding as RL. The reasons were that AF required far more running; & AF is a 360 degree game, so there were "unsighted" collisions. Agree?

1. Why were Hunt & Folau, both RL (& RU) stars & Kangaroos from a young age, abysmal AFL failures?

2. NRL inserts false, loud pre-recorded "hit"sounds, almost simultaneously with actual RL game player collisions, into their TV broadcasts?
Do you approve of this deception?
What other sports adopt similar aural deceptions to try & make their sport "more exciting"?

3. NRL games use the ground PA systems to emit false, loud pre-recorded "crowd applause/cheering" during games.
Same preceding 2 questions to you?

4.You stated ".. Though I tend to think the success (ie of the AFL -my words) is a result of the business actions ( ie efficacy -my words)..." - ie not the intrinsic qualities of AF as a game.

Most would disagree with you -that the success of any sport is mainly related to large numbers enjoying PLAYING that sport ;AND large numbers enjoy, due to its AESTHETICS, watching that sport; AND what sport they were introduced to as CHILDREN, particularly if it was culturally dominant with their peers.

Assuming your novel "AFL are simply better business operators" theory is correct re AFL's success, why don't the ARU & NRL simply emulate the AFL's business practices (and/or poach AFL executives) to improve their floundering record in Aust.? They have had 150+ years to try -& are still trying.

5.You implied that if an AFL game was shown overseas to foreigners, they would not think the sport was attractive.
Why are the views of foreigners important to you, when evaluating the merit of the Australian game?

Many academics & others have written about the long history of the cultural cringe in Aust.
Do you understand what this means -& does it apply to you? Or many other RL & RL supporters?

6. AFL players have had some well publicised off-field behaviour issues in the last 20 years.

NRL players, however, have had FAR more off-field behaviour issues (despite there being many fewer NRL players cf. 18 teams of c. 40 AFL players).
Why is that so? Is this issue the main reason why Steve Maschord, NRL journalist, & others, have stated "RL has a downmarket image problem"?

7. Why have Penrith Districts Junior RL introduced, regularly, security guards at all their junior RL matches? RL is the first, & only, JUNIOR sport to adopt this very expensive precaution.

8. Why are regd. nos. for contact RU & RL been in a long term decline?

9. Why are attendances so poor for the NRL & Super Rugby -& declining?
Some NRL Club officials have admitted providing false, inflated crowd nos. -how widespread is this in the NRL, & when did it commence?
 
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AFL
Womens

Soccer
NRL
SuperRugby
General
 
papabear said:
An interesting thought process to me is if:-
the AFL, deciding in its march to conquer the world, thought the following changes were required to increase the profitibility, exposure and engagement of the global audience to its great game decided:-
- it needed to play on soccer type fields so more fields available for kids
- decided you didnt need to ball up if you got tackled, you got six of them before you gave the ball away
- passing forward makes it to easy to score, only backwards from now on thanks.
- kicking between goals is to easy, only drop kicks from now on, but if you must have more points you need to put the ball down pass the defending teams line for four.
- easier to get a team of 13 then 17
- you wanna get a big boy down better go for his ankles, thats ok.
and so on and so forth, would you still support St Kilda Saints / the AFL or whomever it is you support.

Alternatively if you support a particular RLFC
The NRL decides the AFL has everything about its rules right, as the AFL is more popular and generally has its shit together so it decides
we are playing on cricket ovals.
our players need to run and cover more space as opposed to relying on strength power, allowing forward passes, getting rid of offside rules
The name of the game is football, more kicking, no more tries and six points for putting it between the sticks and can the cross bar.
Also if you just miss by a little bit you should get something, 1 point for you.
Passing is too easy, you have to kick with your hands,handballs only.
If someone can catch a kick respect the man, piss off and give him a free kick
and so on and so forth
do those supporters still support there club.. will "AFL" supporters now support the flashy new "NRL" which is the same as AFL just run by different blokes.

All interesting thoughts, for me atleast.
Click to expand...

If the AFL wanted to devise a game on rectangular 100 by 70 metre pitches they should reduce the numbers on the pitch and weight the ball differently. Most of your suggested changes seem unnecessary but rather appear like you are trying to completely change the nature of the game to engineer one that has next to no actual contest for the ball and that will degenerate into a repetitive boar of brainless meat-axes running into each-other for 5/6ths of it then the one of the 2 or 3 players with ball skills will kick it and then rince repeat.... Why on earth would you want to do that?

If they were to go down your path, how-about you release the ball when tackled and players can only attempt to pick it up if they are on their feet behind the legs of the last player in the ruck? That way you still have a contest for the ball and all the uncertainty and possibility that flows from that that most thinking people like in their sport?
 
NoobPie said:
If the AFL wanted to devise a game on rectangular 100 by 70 metre pitches they should reduce the numbers on the pitch and weight the ball differently. Most of your suggested changes seem unnecessary but rather appear like you are trying to completely change the nature of the game to engineer one that has next to no actual contest for the ball and that will degenerate into a repetitive boar of brainless meat-axes running into each-other for 5/6ths of it then the one of the 2 or 3 players with ball skills will kick it and then rince repeat.... Why on earth would you want to do that?

If they were to go down your path, how-about you release the ball when tackled and players can only attempt to pick it up if they are on their feet behind the legs of the last player in the ruck? That way you still have a contest for the ball and all the uncertainty and possibility that flows from that that most thinking people like in their sport?
Click to expand...
Lol I will focus on your second paragraph as your first one is a bit rough.

the purpose of my post was more to have people thinking about what they support ,ie the club, the location, the rule book, the administration etc. I.e. would you support the St George Dragons if they jumped ship and played in the super rugby / AFL or would you support the collingwood magpies if they jumped ship and played in the NRL / super rugby.

But I like the twist of turning it into a rule changes for fun thought process.

I agree that such a game could do with a little bit more contest for possession.

1 - there is no stripping rule so whilst the ball is live its whomever has it.

2 - in terms of how you the game flows after a tackle / a ruck and maul type situation in union in the highest echelons of the game tends to be used to slow the shit out of the game or even worse, worked and milked to obtain a penalty.

But I think you are right in the sense that there could be value in having a contest for possession at the tackle. Although, I am not sure you jump straight on board the ruck and maul concept and not try and find some new way in between a ruck and play the ball.

I have been thinking about this more, and with possession issues you also have some problems

If the game becomes to much a contest of possession you can see the following:-
soccer / afl - doing nothing passes along the back to no one just making sure they dont do a pass that is intercepted or something, waiting waiting waiting. Boring TV, also to wind the clock down.
Basketball - before the shot clock era, need i say more.
League before limiting tackles, they had more of a contest, one out boring bullshit with st george getting too dominant.
Union, to much pick and drive and crap low risk plays.

As a product you want to encourage a contest of possession so people dont know what happens, suspense etc. But you have to be careful that you dont have a situation where a team plays for possession as opposed to points to get the big W, which inevitably ends up in a worse product then what you had before.
 
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BringBackTorps said:
Just after GC recruited K. Hunt, both Laurie Daley & Greg Brentnall (ex Canterbury, NSW & ARL player), both of whom had also previously played AF in the Riverina, were quoted as saying AF was equally as physically demanding as RL. The reasons were that AF required far more running; & AF is a 360 degree game, so there were "unsighted" collisions. Agree?

1. Why were Hunt & Folau, both RL (& RU) stars & Kangaroos from a young age, abysmal AFL failures?

2. NRL inserts false, loud pre-recorded "hit"sounds, almost simultaneously with actual RL game player collisions, into their TV broadcasts?
Do you approve of this deception?
What other sports adopt similar aural deceptions to try & make their sport "more exciting"?

3. NRL games use the ground PA systems to emit false, loud pre-recorded "crowd applause/cheering" during games.
Same preceding 2 questions to you?

4.You stated ".. Though I tend to think the success (ie of the AFL -my words) is a result of the business actions ( ie efficacy -my words)..." - ie not the intrinsic qualities of AF as a game.

Most would disagree with you -that the success of any sport is mainly related to large numbers enjoying PLAYING that sport ;AND large numbers enjoy, due to its AESTHETICS, watching that sport; AND what sport they were introduced to as CHILDREN, particularly if it was culturally dominant with their peers.

Assuming your novel "AFL are simply better business operators" theory is correct re AFL's success, why don't the ARU & NRL simply emulate the AFL's business practices (and/or poach AFL executives) to improve their floundering record in Aust.? They have had 150+ years to try -& are still trying.

5.You implied that if an AFL game was shown overseas to foreigners, they would not think the sport was attractive.
Why are the views of foreigners important to you, when evaluating the merit of the Australian game?

Many academics & others have written about the long history of the cultural cringe in Aust.
Do you understand what this means -& does it apply to you? Or many other RL & RL supporters?

6. AFL players have had some well publicised off-field behaviour issues in the last 20 years.

NRL players, however, have had FAR more off-field behaviour issues (despite there being many fewer NRL players cf. 18 teams of c. 40 AFL players).
Why is that so? Is this issue the main reason why Steve Maschord, NRL journalist, & others, have stated "RL has a downmarket image problem"?

7. Why have Penrith Districts Junior RL introduced, regularly, security guards at all their junior RL matches? RL is the first, & only, JUNIOR sport to adopt this very expensive precaution.

8. Why are regd. nos. for contact RU & RL been in a long term decline?

9. Why are attendances so poor for the NRL & Super Rugby -& declining?
Some NRL Club officials have admitted providing false, inflated crowd nos. -how widespread is this in the NRL, & when did it commence?
Click to expand...
I like the simple numbered paragraph system it makes it easier to reply to. Please not that my comments below will be somewhat derogatory to AFL they are not really my opinion but only the counter opinion made by the above which was posted to shit on rugby league.

1 - I remember Karmichael Hunt kicked a winning goal in a match, so he can't have been that bad. Isreal Folau also regularly made the firsts team. Not many First grade AFL players have successfully played rugby league recently. I imagine this is due to the fact that they do not have the physical strength / raw speed to play in the power positions nor the skill set to play in the more skilled positions.

2 - In terms of broadcasts amending the hit sounds, I cant comment, I do not know. From personal experience good contact is heard a lot more at the ground then on tv. Obviously the contact made in rugby league is generally of a higher force then AFL, alot higher, hence the different physiology of the athletes at the top level.

3 - I see this typed on here all the time, again I can't confirm it from personal experience, it might be a bigfooty rumour it might be true? my own personal experience is Penrith footy stadium runs a loud cat noise then otherwise the PA announcer is somewhat similar to every other sporting event around the nation.

That said, the mighty canberra raiders have an awesome horn and viking clap to start games these days and the drum for the viking clap is run through the announcer, to assist. Also there would be cheers I imagine like the defence cheers at basketball games or go x team, again this is prett ystandard fair for sporting contests.

What is missing from rugby league games is:-
- Morons calling players goats or flogs
- stupid clappy things
- out of control racism
- screaming for a free kick every time a bloke is tackled even though he may not have had prior opportunity.

4 - Why do the same products/sports have different successes in different markets then.

Simple fact is "our" game is not some amazing god given game better then any other game, it is what it is, same as any other game. The NRL try to emulate the AFL's business success and successful business moves as every business does.
If I see the market leader do something I like in my industry, you can bet that I and others will try and copy them.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

5 - See point 4 above. An individuals perspective has the same impact on me regardless of where they come from, I am not racist, I think you should think on your own perspective here a bit more before continuing to argue this point.

6 - Two things here, I think rugby league players in general come from different socio economic areas then AFL players who come form a broader spectrum. But as a general rule, with respect of image, I think in general:-
- The NRL players has a bigger issue with violence towards women, gambling and its treatment of animals.
- The AFL players has a bigger issue with its treatment of:-
ethnicities
rape/women
drugs

Although the above is just anecdotal based on what scandals each sport has had.

But I certainly agree that the AFL has a better run ship in that they manage to sweep a lot of shit under the carpet and will crap on about any issue the NRL has, watch one episode of offsiders, or any other AFL / General sports show for evidence.

That said, I think the NRL performed much better in handling ASADA and in the long run if the AFL continue to adopt a protect the image policy without addressing the core problems it will hurt them, regardless of any comparison, it wont end well.

7 - Good on Penrith RL

8 - RU and RL are different boats. But put simply the world is getting softer, look at the AFL for example, the game is a lot softer then it was 30 years ago, same with RL. As the world goes softer kids get put into softer sports, see the explosion of soccer numbers across australia.

Also the AFL has been far far far far better at organising and getting kids to sign up for auskick and junior clubs then what RL or RU has, congratulations to "us", any organisation putting more kids is doing a good thing.

9 - I heard something about this and I think David Smith in general stopped it. I think that is the main reason for the decline in RL numbers, it hasnt been much but for the most part similar people would be going, but its a bit more honest now.. the ave might have moved from 16k -15k, I am pretty sure if you look at expansion clubs the AFL has decreased in average too.

The RU is a different story.

Also tastes change.

Just because a quarter pounder sells 1 million less then last year doesnt make it a worse burger, it just means imo, a lot less people are getting to appreciate its goodness like I do.
 
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papabear said:
I like the simple numbered paragraph system it makes it easier to reply to. Please not that my comments below will be somewhat derogatory to AFL they are not really my opinion but only the counter opinion made by the above which was posted to shit on rugby league.

1 - I remember Karmichael Hunt kicked a winning goal in a match, so he can't have been that bad. Isreal Folau also regularly made the firsts team. Not many First grade AFL players have successfully played rugby league recently. I imagine this is due to the fact that they do not have the physical strength / raw speed to play in the power positions nor the skill set to play in the more skilled positions.

2 - In terms of broadcasts amending the hit sounds, I cant comment, I do not know. From personal experience good contact is heard a lot more at the ground then on tv. Obviously the contact made in rugby league is generally of a higher force then AFL, alot higher, hence the different physiology of the athletes at the top level.

3 - I see this typed on here all the time, again I can't confirm it from personal experience, it might be a bigfooty rumour it might be true? my own personal experience is Penrith footy stadium runs a loud cat noise then otherwise the PA announcer is somewhat similar to every other sporting event around the nation.

That said, the mighty canberra raiders have an awesome horn and viking clap to start games these days and the drum for the viking clap is run through the announcer, to assist. Also there would be cheers I imagine like the defence cheers at basketball games or go x team, again this is prett ystandard fair for sporting contests.

What is missing from rugby league games is:-
- Morons calling players goats or flogs
- stupid clappy things
- out of control racism
- screaming for a free kick every time a bloke is tackled even though he may not have had prior opportunity.

4 - Why do the same products/sports have different successes in different markets then.

Simple fact is "our" game is not some amazing god given game better then any other game, it is what it is, same as any other game. The NRL try to emulate the AFL's business success and successful business moves as every business does.
If I see the market leader do something I like in my industry, you can bet that I and others will try and copy them.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

5 - See point 4 above. An individuals perspective has the same impact on me regardless of where they come from, I am not racist, I think you should think on your own perspective here a bit more before continuing to argue this point.

6 - Two things here, I think rugby league players in general come from different socio economic areas then AFL players who come form a broader spectrum. But as a general rule, with respect of image, I think in general:-
- The NRL players has a bigger issue with violence towards women, gambling and its treatment of animals.
- The AFL players has a bigger issue with its treatment of:-
ethnicities
rape/women
drugs

Although the above is just anecdotal based on what scandals each sport has had.

But I certainly agree that the AFL has a better run ship in that they manage to sweep a lot of shit under the carpet and will crap on about any issue the NRL has, watch one episode of offsiders, or any other AFL / General sports show for evidence.

That said, I think the NRL performed much better in handling ASADA and in the long run if the AFL continue to adopt a protect the image policy without addressing the core problems it will hurt them, regardless of any comparison, it wont end well.

7 - Good on Penrith RL

8 - RU and RL are different boats. But put simply the world is getting softer, look at the AFL for example, the game is a lot softer then it was 30 years ago, same with RL. As the world goes softer kids get put into softer sports, see the explosion of soccer numbers across australia.

Also the AFL has been far far far far better at organising and getting kids to sign up for auskick and junior clubs then what RL or RU has, congratulations to "us", any organisation putting more kids is doing a good thing.

9 - I heard something about this and I think David Smith in general stopped it. I think that is the main reason for the decline in RL numbers, it hasnt been much but for the most part similar people would be going, but its a bit more honest now.. the ave might have moved from 16k -15k, I am pretty sure if you look at expansion clubs the AFL has decreased in average too.

The RU is a different story.

Also tastes change.

Just because a quarter pounder sells 1 million less then last year doesnt make it a worse burger, it just means imo, a lot less people are getting to appreciate its goodness like I do.
Click to expand...
I think you are overstating the differences in physicality, it is more a difference in nature of that physicality.

Never played it myself, but I know 2 who have, 1 went from league to footy, and 1 the other way, and there view is similar.

League have consistently bigger hits, as they are from the front on, but you are usually prepared and braced. Also the tackler generally has low momentum so it's harder to step them.

A lot of the hits in footy are relatively low impact, but you are much more likely to be caught unprepared. A footy player getting a hit or tackle is more likely to be caught from odd angles, is more likely to be hit while doing something that makes bracing for the hit impossible. I got knocked out once because I was hit in the act of kicking.

Toughness in league comes about from the number and weight of the hits.

Footy in my opinion has worse hits, but they are rare. High energy, high closing speed from both players, with one player being totally braced for impact, and the other being totally open.

There is no way of comparing the 2.

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papabear said:
3 - I see this typed on here all the time, again I can't confirm it from personal experience, it might be a bigfooty rumour it might be true? my own personal experience is Penrith footy stadium runs a loud cat noise then otherwise the PA announcer is somewhat similar to every other sporting event around the nation.
Click to expand...

I can assure you this happened at Souths v Cowboys in 2014 at Stadium Australia. Damn weird it was too.

papabear said:
What is missing from rugby league games is:-
- Morons calling players goats or flogs
- stupid clappy things
- out of control racism
- screaming for a free kick every time a bloke is tackled even though he may not have had prior opportunity.
Click to expand...

A couple of those things were present on the same occasion as I mentioned above, that's for sure.

What was missing was any sense of involvement from the crowd in the action on the field. There was almost silence whenever the Cowboys had the ball and when Souths had the ball they would complain every second or third tackle for a penalty but that was it.

In an AFL match the crowd are always involved and engaged with what's happening. But I guess that's to be expected of a sport where the player with the ball actually has multiple options with what to do with it. I mean, what are they going to yell at a RL match? Run straight into the defensive line again?
 
manicmagpie said:
I can assure you this happened at Souths v Cowboys in 2014 at Stadium Australia. Damn weird it was too.



A couple of those things were present on the same occasion as I mentioned above, that's for sure.

What was missing was any sense of involvement from the crowd in the action on the field. There was almost silence whenever the Cowboys had the ball and when Souths had the ball they would complain every second or third tackle for a penalty but that was it.

In an AFL match the crowd are always involved and engaged with what's happening. But I guess that's to be expected of a sport where the player with the ball actually has multiple options with what to do with it. I mean, what are they going to yell at a RL match? Run straight into the defensive line again?
Click to expand...
a player in rugby league can pass the ball to 12 people and kick it to 12 people

pretty similar to union and soccer and afl.

Most astute people of any sport generally get a feel for the best play.

What sport you reckon is the best is an acquired individual taste. Which sport is run the best well that is shown in the financials.
 
Ill politely remind all that this thread is not a discussion on which sport is best. Its to discuss - as the topic says - quantifiable elements of sport, including crowds, ratings, meberships, policies and such. We've allowed these threads to run on this basis.
 
The_Wookie said:
Ill politely remind all that this thread is not a discussion on which sport is best. Its to discuss - as the topic says - quantifiable elements of sport, including crowds, ratings, meberships, policies and such. We've allowed these threads to run on this basis.
Click to expand...

Great call. This thread has turned to sh1t. This is one of the very few BigFooty sub forums where people (generally) discuss issues and present valid arguments in a sensible manner. Can we f**k off with the pissing contest.
 
If the AFL want to play games on Thursday night, get a third venue in Melbourne or a smaller venue elsewhere.

Pack a smaller venue out which gives the atmosphere at the game, and backdrop for TV.

For Ex : Carlton V North at Princess Park would would be good on a Thursday night, even if it was a North home game.

Games like Collingwood V Richmond should be on the weekend.
 
it was pissing down as it has been for the past month

This has been the worst month of weather sydney has ever hard for a march I reckon, usually march is still nice like late summer.

Be glad the that the AFL bosses only have thursday night sparingly not every week.
 
papabear said:
it was pissing down as it has been for the past month

This has been the worst month of weather sydney has ever hard for a march I reckon, usually march is still nice like late summer.

Be glad the that the AFL bosses only have thursday night sparingly not every week.
Click to expand...

I have heard them say the same thing year in year out in Sydney.

The culture of attendance for RL in Sydney is seriously beyond a joke.
 
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