Fair enough...though I still think it is highly statistically unlikely if true that there are 16 games between 10 and 11k and only 2 between 9 and 10k.
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Fair enough...though I still think it is highly statistically unlikely if true that there are 16 games between 10 and 11k and only 2 between 9 and 10k.
Ned_Flanders
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Thats a 10% spread, thats not insignificant
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar - i think youre trying to find a grand conspiracy when there is not. Its not like 10k crowd is brag worthy
Have you been to games at shark park, brookvake, etc?
I think that more goes to what the floor of what any given games attendance is. There was also 3 games with 13-14k in the same round. Statistically, if all games between say 7-10k are reported at 10.5k and it is rife within the game, you would think that most if not all rounds would show more rounds with 10-11k crowds then 13-14k crowds.
Perhaps crowd figures are being fudged, but often I think it comes down to the ground and the counting method.
I.e. raiders v bulldogs looked like there was no one there, whilst there looked like there was twice as many at leichhardt then the above game.
Garlic muncher
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I don't actually watch any games and make a call, because i very rarely watch RL, i also think its ridiculous to assume things from TV, i have just based it on simple stats.
10k + sounds a lot higher than 9k, just like when buying something $9 sounds a lot less than $10.
Of course i don't know if the figures are fudged, but i suspect some are in some cases to get figures over the hump that help them look respectable or the round look respectable. ( round one 2017 100,435 ) last time 8 games went below 100,000 was round 21 2014.
http://afltables.com/rl/crowds/2014.html
From memory years ago 10k was the magical cut off point to stay viable according to the NRL.
Anyway at the end of the day who really cares, but like plenty of people who post here i am a bit of a stats nerd.
I will be keeping an eye on them
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NRL crowds are miniscule when compared to the AFL, but taking a broader view, what we can say about NRL crowds is that they regularly end up in the 12k to 16k ranges, and that's still ok.
Soccer fans are hopeful that one day A-League averages will match NRL averages, but what most soccer fans fail to understand is that if they ever grow to have 16 clubs (and that's a very big if), they will struggle to maintain today's average of around 12.5k, let alone catch the NRL.
If they ever get to have 16 clubs plus promotion and relegation (a very big if), you'll have seasons when larger captial city clubs are replaced by pissant teams from goodness knows where and there will be absolutely zero chance of maintaining the current 12.5k average.
Soccer fans are hopeful that one day A-League averages will match NRL averages, but what most soccer fans fail to understand is that if they ever grow to have 16 clubs (and that's a very big if), they will struggle to maintain today's average of around 12.5k, let alone catch the NRL.
If they ever get to have 16 clubs plus promotion and relegation (a very big if), you'll have seasons when larger captial city clubs are replaced by pissant teams from goodness knows where and there will be absolutely zero chance of maintaining the current 12.5k average.
Woah! grand conspiracy? Ease up soldier!
Garlic has highlighted a statistical discrepancy and has noted that the NRL, at least previously, explicit used 10k as a metric. Fudging crowd numbers is hardly a "grand conspiracy"
Having 16 of 18 games between 9 and 11k, that are greater than 10k - even if you accept the ridiculous assumption that 10 to 11k is twice as likely as 9 to 10 - has a 3 % chance of happening. In reality is probably about a 1 in a 1000 chance.
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The NRL dont fudge the figures. It is the club or venue which has access to that information. and each one would have different methods and ways to calculate attendance.
and even then, it is not as simple as it sounds. everything is based on electronics and computers nowadays. you cant just add 1000 GA and say job done.
and even then, it is not as simple as it sounds. everything is based on electronics and computers nowadays. you cant just add 1000 GA and say job done.
Ned_Flanders
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Its a grand conspiracy because of the number of ground admins involved and the number of years involved
The nrl cannot keep drug use under wraps, yet they can do this for years upon years? Tbb the nrl isnt good enough to pull it off.
As mentioned, your slip is showing and its your pax ar rhetoric thats colouring this, not facts
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Well given the number of clubs that have been outed fudging the numbers even the stadium operators of the In Canberra and Gold Coast Cbus stadium have been outed
Fudging the figures runs rampant in the NRL
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it may? It may not? unless you have access to the data or the higher ups on match days, you can only assume things. we will never know for sure how all venues/clubs calculate their attendances figures. We will never know who does what when or how they do it.
we would like every attendance to be the true number of supporters at the ground. but the logistics of that are nearly impossible to control. faulty scanners, bad barcodes and everything in between can and do happen on match day. they are best estimates.
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The latest data collected in the Nielsen Social Content Ratings for the week ending April 30 sees two reality formats and two news programs in the top five for non-sport content. Nine News dominated the week with over 59,000 interactions. The Sunday Night final of My Kitchen Rules was next followed by the first two episodes of The Voice last week.
In sport, AFL matches took the top four spots on the chart with the Anzac day match between Essendon and Collingwood screened by Seven and Fox Footy ranking #1.
http://www.mediaweek.com.au/nielsen-social-ratings-may-2-2017/
In sport, AFL matches took the top four spots on the chart with the Anzac day match between Essendon and Collingwood screened by Seven and Fox Footy ranking #1.
http://www.mediaweek.com.au/nielsen-social-ratings-may-2-2017/
No, it does not need a conspiracy it just needs the right incentives and for there to be a near permissible culture of it.
And this is Garlic's thesis, I am merely endorsing that the distribution of the crowd numbers are highly improbable and supporting him against unreasonable attack.
Everyone has biases but I'm not sure where my "rhetoric" is. I am talking probability here. Your the one introducing the concept of "grand conspiracy" and now seeking refuge in ad hominem
Garlic muncher
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Quite a few RL clubs have been outed fudging figures over the years, just because new electronic gee whiz bang systems are in place doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
I have no doubt the NRL asks few questions if they are suspicious and what's more it is their best interests not to know.
I have no doubt the NRL asks few questions if they are suspicious and what's more it is their best interests not to know.
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pretty interesting
The 95-page government report, detailing the activities of Queensland's nine big sporting stadiums for the 2009-10 financial year, showed:
* None of the Titans' home crowds announced at 14 games matched the attendances printed in the annual report.
* Thirteen of Gold Coast's 14 games featured inflated attendances.
* The greatest discrepancy was an extra 2209 fans for the Titans' home clash against Newcastle Knights last year.
* Brisbane Broncos' crowd figures at 11 games were identical to those in the annual report.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl...d/news-story/b568aa003ff6dfef75bfaefc7a21d571
ACT Sports Minister Andrew Barr claims crowd figures to Canberra's professional football codes have been inflated in previous years, leading to lower recorded numbers this year.
"I think they're actually more honest figures, I think the crowd figures have been inflated in previous years, often by 2000,'' Barr said.
"If you were to go back and look at what the actual numbers were before the inflation of numbers, it wouldn't reflect as much of a downward trend that people might think.
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/act-spo...nister-andrew-barr-claims-20140407-zqrsh.html
ive picked outs those two as the operator of the venues as it was the ACT sporting minister as well as Stadiums Qld that picked on the irregularity of the crowds recorded to the event day and to what has actually been noted in the annual reports
The NRL has also introduced uniform reporting measures to ensure all clubs count attendance figures the same way.
As recently as three years ago, the crowd figures at some grounds were considered little more than an educated guess, while some clubs included all tickets allocated - including members who didn't turn up - rather than number of fans who actually attended the match.
Former Melbourne Storm chief executive Ron Gauci told Fairfax Media in 2011 that the Storm's previous administration had inflated crowd figures and claimed it was a practice that commonly occurred at other clubs.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...nt-always-tell-the-truth-20150413-1mjuby.html
you wouldn't have any trust in the NRL clubs figures
Garlic muncher
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Personally i reckon it is the Sydney clubs or some of them that do it, they have the greatest concentration of clubs, the most competition with other sports and the greatest need to present decent crowds to prove they are viable.
I cant prove it of course, it is not in the scheme of things a big deal but i would not be surprised if at some stage in the future we find that a few Sydney clubs have been fudging the crowd count over a number of years at various times.
Ned_Flanders
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They dont need to present decent crowd figures to validate viability
They need to present decent net game day revenues
Crowd numbers mean shit as saying "we have 200000000 at the game, woot!!" means jack shit for paying the bills
Its only places like this that gaf about attendance numbers, we care, but the average punter wouldnt have a clue how many go to most games
kaypee
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That's not true. Decent crowds feed momentum, which feeds interest and hype and ultimately value. Crowds die first, then everything else whithers.
Ned_Flanders
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thats not true either
nrl has never had big crowds, yet its easily the most supported footy code in nsw. if crowds feed momentum and support, what fed this interest in nsw? pixie dust and happy thoughts?
as for value, thats only relevant for privately owned clubs, and the nsw clubs are not (storm, broncos, etc are obviously exceptions)
Im with you 1/4 full stadiums dont give a good atmosphere to the person that may want to attend but thinks why should I go and waste my time and money for a sport that is not that popular with fans.
With the blanket TV coverage of all codes now, clubs and the codes themselves cannot BS about crowds anymore as the proof is right in front of them on the TVs esp when they start covering up thousands of seats with advertising banners.
Im surprised that some sports are not putting in virtual crowds to cover up their appalling crowds like 10,000 at an 85,000 stadium.
Ned_Flanders
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Most nrl grounds hold between 20-30k, theyre not quarter full
kaypee
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True enough, but the drift in nrl appears to be towards even lower crowds, fewer players and from what I understand softer and fragmented ratings. SOO doesn't help either as IMO it renders the regular season a reserves comp. not that I much care for rugby anyway.
Let's say AFL grows by 2 percent every year in crowds and ratings and NRL declines by the same, over a decade that becomes quite a gap
In terms of the grand 10k crowd figure fudge conspiracy, which other clubs / league do you believe do it?
Is it NRL clubs, odd that it would only be sydney clubs when the titans / raiders/brumbies/GWS where the only ones mentioned.
Is it AFL clubs
A league clubs
Super Rugby clubs (I didnt think they bothered with attendance figures anymore?)
Is it NRL clubs, odd that it would only be sydney clubs when the titans / raiders/brumbies/GWS where the only ones mentioned.
Is it AFL clubs
A league clubs
Super Rugby clubs (I didnt think they bothered with attendance figures anymore?)
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yes! given the vact there has been dozens reports about it in news papers, annual reports! the fudging is well and truly happening
in regards to other codes doing the same, go and find some evidence not just an NRL fans opinion
Garlic muncher
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True, it is the other non Sydney NRL clubs mentioned and caught, but it would not surprise me if the Sydney clubs that over the years have been the real culprits.
I just think as I have posted that it is harder to remain relevant in a more competitive environment that Sydney is.
The titans can lye out there arse yet in the scheme of things are going nowhere.
However the market will dictate in Sydney and there is a few clubs day in day out either talked about being moved or simply closed.
The real battle for survival is in Sydney therefore IMO they have more to gain fudging numbers to a respectable level.
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average reported stadium attendance is 41% of capacity this season.
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