Autopsy AFL 2023 Grand Final - Pies vs Lions Sat Sept 30th 2:30pm EST (MCG)

[Algorithmic Hot Takes]

Biggest ever comeback in a grand final at 3/4 is 24 points in 1984. They’d want to be a bit closer I’d reckon.

Maybe, but it's all mental. They'll both be knackered at that stage with the heat, in this scenario.
The crowd starts "Coooollingwoood, Coooollingwoood", get a quick goal or two, and tired Lions could try and save it, which won't end well if 20 points up with 15 minutes to go...

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Weak response. Almost as weak as Curnow’s finals series.

I know you think Frampton was deplorable too PL. Let’s save the bickering for February.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

I know you get it Cobbo

Sure do!!

Great to be a supporter of the most successful club in history

 

[PieLebo87]

Plenty of people agree with me. But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. I'm comfortable with my opinion which I formed myself through watching the game and studying the statistics.

It’s a very strong opinion, because you’ve been arguing it repetitively for the last 10-12 hours. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but geez, you could’ve just said ‘agree to disagree’ about 20 posts back to the 5th poster who disagreed with you.

Maginness isn't quite a fair comparison either. Finn regularly keeps the competitions best ball winners to less touches touches than what Harris Andrews, the full back, had yesterday.
And performing that role in the midfield is a completely different type of game than in the forward line.

I’d argue the opposite, it’d be harder to defend against a tall intercepting defender than a midfielder in today’s game.

Some of the most influential players in today’s game are the tall intercepting defenders (May, Lever, Taylor, Moore, Andrews, Stewart + many more) and if it was so easy to negate them, we’d see alot more of it.

 

[Ischenko]

Don’t argue with a North supporter. They roll over too easy and make you feel sad for them.

Don’t you have some begging to do little North buddy.

My dear boy you’d give Oscar Wilde a run for his money in the wit department! I’m dying here, as are all our football loving comrades I’m sure. You have a unique mind and great depth of insight.

I must ask: do you write you own material? I’m guessing it takes a whole team to come up with such sparkling repartee. I’d happily be regaled by your bon mots all day but unfortunately I left the oven on. Farewell, my friend. I trust you are living your best life

 

[PieLebo87]

I know you think Frampton was deplorable too PL. Let’s save the bickering for February.

He wasn’t good at all, but the fact he was on Andrews all day, and he had so little influence on the result makes me very comfortable with Frampton winning a premiership medal.

Old mate is arguing that Frampton was rubbish, had a couple of touches and did nothing else. This is categorically wrong.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

He wasn’t good at all, but the fact he was on Andrews all day, and he had so little influence on the result makes me very comfortable with Frampton winning a premiership medal.

Old mate is arguing that Frampton was rubbish, had a couple of touches and did nothing else. This is categorically wrong.

I'm more grateful to Frampton today than anyone else, heroic performance

 

[PieLebo87]

I'm more grateful to Frampton today than anyone else, heroic performance

The optics is what nuffies are referring to. When he had a chance to pluck a couple, he cocked it up. This gives them the ammo to carry on, but his defensive work on Andrews is sadly underrated.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

He wasn’t good at all, but the fact he was on Andrews all day, and he had so little influence on the result makes me very comfortable with Frampton winning a premiership medal.

Old mate is arguing that Frampton was rubbish, had a couple of touches and did nothing else. This is categorically wrong.

If he played like that in the home and away or a prelim he’d be straight out of the side as quick as he came in, and probably sent directly to the delist pile.

He was one kick away from becoming a grand final horror story. But as I have said above that’s not something anyone at Collingwood needs to worry about now.

 

[PieLebo87]

If he played like that in the home and away or a prelim he’d be straight out of the side as quick as he came in, and probably sent directly to the delist pile.

He was one kick away from becoming a grand final horror story. But as I have said above that’s not something anyone at Collingwood needs to worry about now.

Bobby Hill was one kick away from not winning a Norm Smith.

Collingwood was one kick away from reviving the Colliwobbles.

Just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Bobby Hill was one kick away from not winning a Norm Smith.

Collingwood was one kick away from reviving the Colliwobbles.

Just the way the cookie crumbles.

I would’ve still given it to Bobby in a close loss. But I agree with what you’re saying.

 

[PieLebo87]

“A big tick”: Magpie credited for playing unheralded role in Grand Final

“Overall, Frampton did an excellent job.”

www.sen.com.au

Some reading material for Blackhawk42

 

[No SPIN]

Frampton with a -4.1 player rating from Champion Data. Even worse than Hipwood at -3.9. These ratings aren't the be all and end all, but are Pies fans still going to justify his game as anything less than a shambles?

What sort of rating should a player have, who’s role was just to shut down his opponent at all costs?

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Frampton with a -4.1 player rating from Champion Data. Even worse than Hipwood at -3.9. These ratings aren't the be all and end all, but are Pies fans still going to justify his game as anything less than a shambles?

He had ONE JOB and he did it

"Premiership forward Billy Frampton"

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

What sort of rating should a player have, who’s role was just to shut down his opponent at all costs?

Andrews his direct opponent had a rating of 16.5 which was 5th highest on the ground.

It’s Champion Data so you need to take it for what it is.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Andrews his direct opponent had a rating of 16.5 which was 5th highest on the ground.

It’s Champion Data so you need to take it for what it is.

He had a picnic against Curnow, it's a great result

 

[No SPIN]

It wasn't the defenders day.

Brisbane kicked the second highest losing Grand Final score this century with their second lowest inside 50 count of the entire season.

I've rewatched the game today. Andrews was solid for 3 quarters and great in the last. Aside from from dropping 4 marks, I have no idea what else Frampton did. It certainly wasn't stop Andrews having an impact, that's for sure.

I’m sure Fagan thought Andrews game was huge -
Frampton ensured Andrew had virtually no influence- and my definition of influence, is in comparison to his game in the PF.
By that definition, Frampton was very effective is negating Andrews.

 

[No SPIN]

Andrews his direct opponent had a rating of 16.5 which was 5th highest on the ground.

It’s Champion Data so you need to take it for what it is.

According to the AFL app he rated 16th on AF points.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

I’m sure Fagan thought Andrews game was huge -
Frampton ensured Andrew had virtually no influence- and my definition of influence, is in comparison to his game in the PF.
By that definition, Frampton was very effective is negating Andrews.

Andrews will be having nightmares all summer about Frampton

Bet he wishes he could play on Curnow every week

 

[No SPIN]

Frampton was horrible. This is such a s**t take. You’d do a good job as a channel 7 hype man.

Andrews had the equal most marks and most intercept possessions on the ground. He was one of Brisbane’s most influential players.

Frampton is lucky to be on the right side of the result. Good on him. He now has what many players would kill for and should be proud for putting himself in that position. But it was one of the worst grand finals in history.

Get some perspective sport.
If you had a player in the PF who’d managed to negate Andrews like Frampton did, you’d be sitting here today as RUNNERS UP.

 

[Irish BlueBagger]

Get some perspective sport.
If you had a player in the PF who’d managed to negate Andrews like Frampton did, you’d be sitting here today as champions.

I amended that post for you. It was fatigue that cost Carlton against the Lions imo.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Andrews his direct opponent had a rating of 16.5 which was 5th highest on the ground.

It’s Champion Data so you need to take it for what it is.

Did Andrews help his team win?
The answer is a definite no.

Did Frampton help his team win?
You could argue yes and no, so Frampton wins and he has the medal to prove it.

 

[No SPIN]

I amended that post for you. It was fatigue that cost Carlton against the Lions imo.

Making an amendment is the closest you’ll get to a flag.
Carl Champions in a parellel universe but not here.

No fatigue in the 1st QTR, when Andrews saved the game, by constantly repelling attacks.

 

[Pendles!]

Andrews was very good in the last, but his first 3 quarters weren’t up to his usual level. We can thank Billy for that.

 

[Fadge]

Andrews his direct opponent had a rating of 16.5 which was 5th highest on the ground.

It’s Champion Data so you need to take it for what it is.

Indeed.

Unanimous Norm Smith Medal winner was the 13th best player on the ground, apparently.

Runner up in the Norm Smith, Kieden Coleman, the 17th best.

Wowee.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Did Andrews help his team win?
The answer is a definite no.

Did Frampton help his team win?
You could argue yes and no, so Frampton wins and he has the medal to prove it.

That is pretty poor logic. You are basically arguing that Coleman or Berry were worse than Frampton because they didn’t help their team win. And that players can’t play poorly if their side wins.

Frampton would be 100% dropped if there was a game next week. There isn’t another game, the Pies won and did what they as a side needed to do, but surely your analysis goes a little deeper than that.