AFL club insider claims their side tanked...

[Zeke]

LOL at Carlton supporters defending the indefensible.

 

[Thrawn]

LOL at Carlton supporters defending the indefensible.

*Pulls your avatar's hair*

 

[morgoth]

Having Dick Pratt as Prez really makes this more smelly than it actually is.

Due to his price fixing actions his integrity is questionable at best. In the corporate world it is called corporate governence and maybe it is time Carlton had a think about it as they are tainted by Dicks smell.

 

[JeffDunne]

Since there's so much evidence that Carlton threw games - where's the fraud squad investigation?

 

[Corpuscles]

Interesting analogy.

On a tangent, a company I once worked for sent me to a training day on trades practices where we were taught "if you are in a room with a competitor and the subject of price comes up, leave the room immediately otherwise you are potentially implicating yourself in a price fixing discussion".

That company was Amcor.

Exactly the point MarkT was making!

The trick is to make all sideline underlings (as many as possible) except for a very few "in the know" think that the whole idea is absolutely abhorrent to the perp!!

 

[The Fireman]

*Pulls your avatar's hair*

 

[morgoth]

Berjeezus Fire Truck, your club pioneered the tank.

 

[MarkT]

Why did Didak and Johnson end their seasons early? (It's an honestly intended question, I can't remember their circumstances).

Didak collapsed on the field. Johnson has had quite a few injury issues. A quote from Wikipedia FWIW:
“In 2005 he had an interrupted season, with injury concerns after a concussion mid-season, and also a rumoured dispute with coach Mick Malthouse. He only played 13 games, and ended a 77 consecutive games streak.”

This is where tanking's a really grey area. One teams player development is another teams tanking.

It is all grey really by definition.

One could make the case for example, that if Collingwood were tanking in 2005, then Nathan Buckley wouldn't have played the last 10 games. By Round 13, Collingwood were gawn for the year.

One could also make the case that if Collingwood were dead serious about winning every game, then Buckley would have spent more time in the midfield (where he was one of the dominant players of his generation), rather than in the forward line (where he was still very effective) in those matches.

Buckley did spend a fair bit of time in the midfield - more than in 2007.

I distinctly remember the Round 21 game when Adelaide hosted the Pies at Footy Park - I remember the radio commentators making the point at one stage when the score was something like Adelaide 5.6 to Collingwood not yet across centre, and Buckley was at FF, and not even close to getting involved. The fact that Malthouse wasn't moving Buckley into the guts to at least get a touch and maybe get his side moving was being invoked loudly across the airwaves as a sign of Collingwood tanking.

In the 2006 final I made the same call to no avail. I have always said MM lacks alternatives when it doesn’t go his way. It is one reason why I don’t support him as coach of Collingwood. He has a good solid game plan but if it doesn’t work we don’t win.

It's just inevitable, I suggest, that any side that goes on a long losing streak as to finish up with priority pick is going to have accusations levelled at them - whether Carlton last year, Collingwood in 2005, or Freo in the "Haselby game".

Quite possibly but that is a debate about the rules which is quite apart from a Carlton assistant coach confirming that speculation.

I actually think that there should be some licence for coaching staff and selection committees to not play their "best" sides, or play players in their "best" position (as determined by the meedya). If a side is, say, 4 wins and 9 losses, it's pretty obvious that the mix of players and positions isn't working, and a side should then have a bit of licence to try a Zac Dawson (or for that matter, a young Ben Rutten in 2004) as a key defender, even at the cost of short term pain.

I agree 100%. When that is done in conjunction with a whole attitude of not wanting to win games from Monday training to Saturday pre match it is a different sphere entirely. When rattan gets the job knowing he doesn’t have to win to keep it, taking Saddington off Rocca when he had been holding him and having Rocca kick a goal takes on a whole extra dimension.

 

[JeffDunne]

Berjeezus Fire Truck, your club pioneered the tank.

Tony Shaw?

He not only put the cue in the rack on a season but he paraded around wearing it as a badge of honour.

 

[sosos]

Didak collapsed on the field. Johnson has had quite a few injury issues. A quote from Wikipedia FWIW:

Using wikipedia as backup to your claims?? Puh-leeze.

You do know how wikis are compiled don't you?

 

[morgoth]

Tony Shaw?

He not only put the cue in the rack on a season but he paraded around wearing it as a badge of honour.

Mate, we were that bad we could not have won games with Jesus in charge. We were truly horrid.

 

[La Vache]

yeh and alistair clarkson and zac dawson on rocca

We won 9 games and finished 11th in 2006.

You reckon that's tanking?

 

[The Fireman]

Berjeezus Fire Truck, your club pioneered the tank.

be serious morongoth, I still remember you saying how terrible we were when we were bottom, you can't have it both ways.

 

[sosos]

taking Saddington off Rocca when he had been holding him and having Rocca kick a goal takes on a whole extra dimension.

Saddington went forward and took a big mark and kicked a goal. And that's your extra dimension? Riiiiiight.

 

[morgoth]

Not a critism fire truck. I have long said their is nothing wrong with it, the rules apply evenly to all clubs so whats the problem.

 

[The Fireman]

Not a critism fire truck. I have long said their is nothing wrong with it, the rules apply evenly to all clubs so whats the problem.

The problem? The problem is the AFL should do something to stop it.
The problem is that it is a shitful part of the game.
The problem is that you have fans, especially Carlton fans who condone it, eg the Carlton cheersquad cheering oppo goals, how stuffed up is that?
What is the problem

 

[JeffDunne]

Mate, we were that bad we could not have won games with Jesus in charge. We were truly horrid.

lol - of course you were.

I presume Carlton weren't?

As for your nonsense claim about St Kilda - did you miss Timmy Watson's effort in the box or at the drafting/trading table?

I had to laugh at Timmy this morning claiming St Kilda had to play kids in his last games because our kids were so poor. This was the man that brought Monky, Francis, Sean F***ing Charles & others to the the club.


Yeah, we tanked.

 

[MarkT]

Using wikipedia as backup to your claims?? Puh-leeze.

You do know how wikis are compiled don't you?

It’s a simple quote about Johnson’s 2005. I am not using for anything more than what it is. Look into it and you will find it is factual.

 

[MarkT]

lol - of course you were.

I presume Carlton weren't?

As for your nonsense claim about St Kilda - did you miss Timmy Watson's effort in the box or at the drafting/trading table?

I had to laugh at Timmy this morning claiming St Kilda had to play kids in his last games because our kids were so poor. This was the man that brought Monkhy, Francis, Sean F***ing Charles & others to the the club.


Yeah, we tanked.

Have you ever heard GT talk on the subject. Very interesting.

 

[MarkT]

Saddington went forward and took a big mark and kicked a goal. And that's your extra dimension? Riiiiiight.

What happened next?

 

[JeffDunne]

Have you ever heard GT talk on the subject. Very interesting.

Yeah, he said pretty much word for word what Eddie said this morning.

 

[MarkT]

Didn’t head Ed this morning. What did he say?

 

[sosos]

It’s a simple quote about Johnson’s 2005. I am not using for anything more than what it is. Look into it and you will find it is factual.

It may well be. Or not. If the AFL look at Carlton, then they have to look at the entire history of the pp system.

 

[JeffDunne]

He said a quite a bit actually as there were so many topics on the agenda.

One admission he did make was that Collingwood sent players for op's that could have continued playing if the team was in finals. Admitted they played kids to get games into them rather than picking them on merit. "List management" he called it - and I don't see how they would have acted any different if there was no PP or even a draft. Also admitted that people within a club would prefer loses in those circumstances since the rewards can be so great.

He thinks all clubs participate in "list management" but doesn't think any intentionally lose.

 

[sosos]

What happened next?

We lost! To one of the season's eventual preliminary finalist.

I'm not providing the following quote from the Blueseum as "evidence" (it is a wiki lol) but it pretty well matches my memory of that game...
http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php?page=Round+18,+2007
"Collingwood opened the fourth quarter with plenty of scoreboard pressure regaining the lead by playing an open forward line trying to expose the smaller Saddington on Anthony Rocca. Collingwood's ploy was working and forced Ratten into a quick change sending Saddington forward and sending the taller Ó hAilpín to match up on Rocca. It proved almost immediate dividends as Carlton was able to lift their work rate and return fire. Goals to Saddington and Fevola tied the game up at 95 points all and it appeared that a nailbiting finish was on the cards. However, Collingwood was able to lift. Four goals in the last quarter to Rocca sealed Carlton's fate as they were unable to keep him quiet for the full four quarters. While Carlton's young team was able to take it up to the more experienced Collingwood players it was ultimately Carlton's lack of key defenders and ruck talent that left them vulnerable."