Preview AFL NAB Cup Round 2 - Geelong v Adelaide, Simonds Stadium, 2:40PM Saturday 2 March

[meto]

You'd reckon Motlop as well.

Absolutely Motlop, good call, you know he kicked 26 or 28 goals last year, he's definately built his body up this pre-season and looks less of a kid.
So we've really got some forward speed happening this year, lots of options can't be a bad thing.

Having said they'd struggle for recovery, I meant against those two freaks, otherwise they'd be first class, Varcoe, Murdoch and Motlop can go and their fitness levels are super no question.

 

[footscore]

he was very good early but drifted away significantly in the 2nd half of the season but had we had a fit Smedts, Varcoe or Menzel, not sure he'd have remained in the team

 

[footscore]

now that I remember, Smedts was applying excellent forward pressure, deceptively quick and was working harder without the ball than with the ball, must get this from Motlop tomorrow

 

[meto]

now that I remember, Smedts was applying excellent forward pressure, deceptively quick and was working harder without the ball than with the ball, must get this from Motlop tomorrow

I think you mean tommorrow week FS, Smedts brings another dimension, he's quite tall is Billy (around 190cm) much taller than the other two, and he is tricky and tough.

As for Motlops' hardness, I think it's pretty good after having that shoulder damaged by Brad Soulle, he's much bigger and mature nowdays.
Last year almost a 30 goal player, that's what we want!

I reckon Varcoe has also added muscle and natural body weight over the last 12 months, his desparation in close might also improve, it will be interesting to see what these 3 do over the 2013 season.

 

[Footy Smarts]

As for Motlops' hardness, I think it's pretty good after having that shoulder damaged by Brad Soulle, he's much bigger and mature nowdays.
Last year almost a 30 goal player, that's what we want!

You must've loved Varcoe's 2010 and 2011 seasons right?

 

[FredLeDeux]

You must've loved Varcoe's 2010 and 2011 seasons right?

He'd probably want to compare them to Motlop's 2014 and 2015 seasons first, to test comparable experience.

 

[Footy Smarts]

He'd probably want to compare them to Motlop's 2014 and 2015 seasons first, to test comparable experience.

I was just having a bit of fun. I rate Motlop highly but if you're looking for a proven 30 goal a year forward...

 

[FredLeDeux]

I was just having a bit of fun. I rate Motlop highly but if you're looking for a proven 30 goal a year forward...

Well, he'll no doubt discuss it with you at some stage.
And, of course, Varcoe is no longer a forward, nor do we need him there.
With all his weaknesses, he's needed now (and last season) as a long fast outside runner, so we can use Duncan in more important jobs.

 

[maxy87]

Well, he'll no doubt discuss it with you at some stage.
And, of course, Varcoe is no longer a forward, nor do we need him there.
With all his weaknesses, he's needed now (and last season) as a long fast outside runner, so we can use Duncan in more important jobs.

He sure is. That said, I wouldn't denigrate the role of the outside runner. Not much use winning contests if your teammates can't spread or conversely, can't defend a spread when not in possession. This was part of the reason why we were giving leads of 4-5 goals to better opposition at the start of games last year only to become competitive when the pace had left the game in the second half

 

[FredLeDeux]

He sure is. That said, I wouldn't denigrate the role of the outside runner. Not much use winning contests if your teammates can't spread or conversely, can't defend a spread when not in possession. This was part of the reason why we were giving leads of 4-5 goals to better opposition at the start of games last year only to become competitive when the pace had left the game in the second half

I'm not denigrating the role, we needed someone to play regularly there last season, and we need someone this season, and Varcoe is the obvious choice at this stage.

 

[maxy87]

I'm not denigrating the role, we needed someone to play regularly there last season, and we need someone this season, and Varcoe is the obvious choice at this stage.

Yeah I get you. I thought you were implying that Duncan will now be playing a role that's more important to the team (inside mid). Perhaps you meant that its more important to his personal development?

 

[FredLeDeux]

Yeah I get you. I thought you were implying that Duncan will now be playing a role that's more important to the team (inside mid). Perhaps you meant that its more important to his personal development?

No, I do think that both inside mids and outside runners are both important. I think that the former is more important because it's the driver for the latter; but to be fully effective, it needs the latter. And, of course, the latter is almost absolutely dependent upon the former.
None of the elements in a modern team can be fully effective without any of the others; but the one thing you absolutely cannot do without is an efficient engine.

 

[maxy87]

No, I do think that both inside mids and outside runners are both important. I think that the former is more important because it's the driver for the latter; but to be fully effective, it needs the latter. And, of course, the latter is almost absolutely dependent upon the former.
None of the elements in a modern team can be fully effective without any of the others; but the one thing you absolutely cannot do without is an efficient engine.

Chicken and egg

 

[sarah.13]

Chicken and egg

thats that make Varcoe an efficient egg?

 

[FredLeDeux]

Chicken and egg

Yes, I thought about that, but it's not really appropriate, because the engine-room can get along without the outside runner better than can the outside runner without the engine-room.

 

[maxy87]

Yes i agree. Just trying to frame this existential discussion which, on a Saturday morning, is killing me

 

[Footy Smarts]

I think the contrast between 2011 and 2012 showed just how important outside players are. Varcoe and Wojcinski were both very good in 2011, particularly defensively. Without them both in 2012 it became a matter of holding on until the sting went out of the game and we weren't being killed on the spread. It's also no coincidence that our best patch of form coincided with Smedts finding his feet as a half-forward outside pressure provider similar to what Varcoe did the year before.

 

[meto]

No, I do think that both inside mids and outside runners are both important. I think that the former is more important because it's the driver for the latter; but to be fully effective, it needs the latter. And, of course, the latter is almost absolutely dependent upon the former.
None of the elements in a modern team can be fully effective without any of the others; but the one thing you absolutely cannot do without is an efficient engine.

As was brought to your attention in the 2011 GF, Duncs can do both inside, outside, or any side you like!

What your telling me is Varcoe and Motlop start the 2013 season about equal as effective forwards.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Yes i agree. Just trying to frame this existential discussion which, on a Saturday morning, is killing me

I think the contrast between 2011 and 2012 showed just how important outside players are. Varcoe and Wojcinski were both very good in 2011, particularly defensively. Without them both in 2012 it became a matter of holding on until the sting went out of the game and we weren't being killed on the spread. It's also no coincidence that our best patch of form coincided with Smedts finding his feet as a half-forward outside pressure provider similar to what Varcoe did the year before.

Agree. The days are gone when you could succeed with significant weaknesses in any given element of the team plan. You need outside runners, and you need players in the F50 to keep it in there til we have a 2nd shot or at least stop the others from bringing it out too easily/quickly.

As was brought to your attention in the 2011 GF, Duncs can do both inside, outside, or any side you like!

What your telling me is Varcoe and Motlop start the 2013 season about equal as effective forwards.

Have you got the right bloke here? I have repeatedly said how good Duncan is, how versatile he is, how often he was called on to be a Mr Fixit in whatever position we were short on last season, and how well he did in that variety of roles.

And I am definitely not telling you "Varcoe and Motlop start the 2013 season about equal as effective forwards". Motlop was a very effective forward early last season, and much less effective when he moved up to wing and/or sub. He should return to F50 again, in my opinion. I have said several times that Varcoe is not needed in the F50, and should play up the ground as a long fast outside runner, because we need one if Duncan (as he should) plays more inside mid; and because, inconsistent and often ineffectual as he is, Varcoe is the best - indeed, at this stage - only choice, as far as I can see.

 

[meto]

The best you reckon Fred, we shall find out soon enough!!

 

[FredLeDeux]

The best you reckon Fred, we shall find out soon enough!!

Who do you see as an alternative for that job?

 

[meto]

Who do you see as an alternative for that job?

Allen Christensen, Steve Motlop, Jesse Stringer, Jordi Murdoch, Billy Smedts and Jackson Sherringham come to mind for the minute, ha! throw in Matty Stokes as well.
Caddy's very fit as you know!....he's another, and GHS of course
Cheers.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Allen Christensen, Steve Motlop, Jesse Stringer, Jordi Murdoch, Billy Smedts and Jackson Sherringham come to mind for the minute, ha! throw in Matty Stokes as well.
Caddy's very fit as you know!....he's another, and GHS of course
Cheers.

Sheringham, Stokes and GHS obviously can't do it, because they're too b slow.
Christensen and Caddy are needed to play as inside mids.
Stringer/Murdoch may have a run there at different times, though it's more likely they will play wing on one side with Varcoe down the other.
Smedts/Motlop may have a run there, but have both clearly been better in the F50, and one or both are needed there.
Varcoe will be playing, and in my opinion his best position is as the long fast outside runner we missed last season (a spot which none of the players you mention were able to fill).

 

[you pick one]

Billie and Motlop in the forward 50 and Varcoe and Duncan working between the arcs sounds about right to me.

 

[sarah.13]

Allen Christensen, Steve Motlop, Jesse Stringer, Jordi Murdoch, Billy Smedts and Jackson Sherringham come to mind for the minute, ha! throw in Matty Stokes as well.
Caddy's very fit as you know!....he's another, and GHS of course
Cheers.

Surely you jest, not one of those players comes anywhere near Varcoe in terms of breaking lines, disposal skills and goal kicking ability.