Preview AFL Preliminary Final - Pies vs Hawks - Prematch Discussion

[rose jam]

Who do we normally play on Rioli? His record against us is really poor apart from the round 24 2010 game which was a bit of a non event.

Harry normally, but wouldn'tbe surprised to see Toovey get him. Osborne is playing defensive forward at the moment so he'd take Leon you'd think.

People talk up Rioli way too much that actual output, is he really actually contributing more than say Jarryd Blair? I don't think so.

 

[Ed D]

Harry normally, but wouldn'tbe surprised to see Toovey get him. Osborne is playing defensive forward at the moment so he'd take Leon you'd think.

People talk up Rioli way too much that actual output, is he really actually contributing more than say Jarryd Blair? I don't think so.

Perhaps not at the moment but during the H&A season he was on fire.

 

[Stax on the mill]

How refreshing to see a spirited, yet good natured debate between opposing supporters.
It is a credit to the moderators on this forum that they allow a fair degree of tolerance to fans from other clubs putting their views in a forceful, but not offensive manner. It is also good that Magpie posters mostly do not automatically abuse opposition posters, and can engage in rational debate with them.

 

[rustyg70]

I wouldnt write Rioli off too quickly.
He is a real dangerman for us this Friday.
He only needs 10 minutes of good football to tear you to shreds.(ala Didak)
You only need to look back at his performance in the '08 grand final to see what he can do to a team in a final.

 

[Kurtley Beale]

Harry normally, but wouldn'tbe surprised to see Toovey get him. Osborne is playing defensive forward at the moment so he'd take Leon you'd think.

People talk up Rioli way too much that actual output, is he really actually contributing more than say Jarryd Blair? I don't think so.

Would you take Blair over Rioli ?

 

[Frankie23]

I think Toovey will get the job on Rioli, he is clearly their most dangerous small forward, Toovs has the pace and will to limit Rioli's output.

I'd save Harry for the times when Lewis/Hodge float forward, they can be very dangerous when resting up there.

 

[rose jam]

Would you take Blair over Rioli ?

Rioli certainly has the potential for a much higher upper limit, but will Rioli ever be more than just potential? At the moment they're output would be pretty square.
I always laugh when I hear commentators say "With Franklin and Rioli in the team...."
How often has Franklin kicked a decent bag since 2008? I think twice he's kicked 6 goals, is that right? Both against poor sides.
And Rioli, well, shocking record against good teams.

 

[PremierPie13]

Would you take Blair over Rioli ?

I really hope someone doesn't say we need Blair for his tackling pressure

 

[PremierPie13]

At the moment they're output would be pretty square.

I hope we can organise this fairly even trade. Hey, we could just throw in McCarthy to be generous...

 

[Zahki]

There's no denying that Blair is the more skilful player, but Rioli has X factor. You never know what he's going to produce.

 

[Ed D]

Blair more skilful than Rioli? Not sure which games you guys have been watching outside of finals. I'd happily take Rioli over Blair.

 

[rose jam]

There's no denying that Blair is the more skilful player, but Rioli has X factor. You never know what he's going to produce.

yeah you do. Pick up the ball, fake about 6 directions, run out to the left and shank the ball along the ground. That's pretty standard Rioli play.

 

[PremierPie13]

Blair more skilful than Rioli? Not sure which games you guys have been watching outside of finals. I'd happily take Rioli over Blair.

Anyone with half a brain would.

 

[mdc]

Blair more skilful than Rioli? Not sure which games you guys have been watching outside of finals. I'd happily take Rioli over Blair.

If they were to have a skills competition, Blair would win. Rioli is routinely sloppy with ball use.

That said, Rioli's defensive pressure is out of this world, plus his potential's obviously much higher, so I'd happily take Rioli too.

 

[Ed D]

I guess if you're talking purely about kicking execution Blair could have it, but if you're talking about creativeness, damage, evasiveness etc Rioli takes it.

Anyway, it's a stupid argument to have!

 

[Scodog10]

Don't know boys Rioli may shank the odd one, but I have a hunch that he comes out on top still in most statistical areas for efficiency.

It's just a shame that I50 retention rate and score involvements aren't listed anywhere. Because I think that's where Rioi's true strengths would shine through and I'd rate them highly as skill measures of small forwards cum midfielders.

 

[mattys123]

Seriously, will this game ****ing start already.

It feels like about 2 months since the last time we saw Dale Thomas or Ben Reid play, let alone the actual team at or near their best.

And you just know, you just have that feeling, that all year we have been waiting for 2 games, the prelim and the Grand Final, because when it's all said and done, every other game in an AFL season is just qualification for these two weekends, and the best teams rarely get beat, or even get close to getting beat on these weekends.

The Cats and Pies will win, as they should, but my god would I love to be able to time travel to 7.45pm on Friday night, because the wait is starting to drive me nuts.

 

[PieBeast]

Rioli is a star, Blair is a good honest battler.

That is all.

 

[larrikan]

It's funny how everyone seems to be talking match ups with the Cats and Hawks especially on their boards to justify beating us. One of our strengths is that we rotate and don't match up. The midfield/forward rotations are precise and the defenders are exceptional. You cannot say oh Reid takes Buddy...when in fact Tarrant/Reid/Maxwell(third man up and block) may all rotate through Buddy.

I am amazed at how our apparent invincibility through the season has been eroded by the media and opposition clubs. All through the year, people have acknowledged we are the superior team in the competition. Going into round 24 we were $1.30 to $3.00 favorites to beat Geelong. They had been poor for five weeks - the 6th form side. The other finals sides finished as their ladder positions suggested. MM keeps saying players are affected by leg injuries etc but Shaw/Maxwell/Dawes/Thomas have continued peak fitness. The players have known all year that they will play finals. Davis and Tazza are hungry for a flag. This 2011 side is better than 2010. The WC final was torrid - hard hits and tackles - the boys fought out a strong win. Now they are rested and regroup for the Hawks - a good side but need some exceptional performances from their A graders and us be off the boil a little to win.

Geelong are rumored to have 5 players retiring - Scarlett and crew. Why? because bodies don't come up week after week. They have two more tough games. And just like the Hawks they need Ottens, Pods and Hawkins to fire.

We have winners across the field. We cannot be tagged out of a game. I am surprised at how we have seemingly come back to the field. I have a sneaky suspicion that after the preliminary final we will again go in as hot favorites to win the flag.

Oh, and for Cats and Hawks supporters reading this who want to run back to their board and talk about our arrogance. It's called confidence and belief that you can get the job done. Cats had it in recent years, Hawks in the 80's and now we have it. The next two games are ours to lose. Play our best and we win.

 

[larrikan]

Seriously, will this game ****ing start already.

It feels like about 2 months since the last time we saw Dale Thomas or Ben Reid play, let alone the actual team at or near their best.

And you just know, you just have that feeling, that all year we have been waiting for 2 games, the prelim and the Grand Final, because when it's all said and done, every other game in an AFL season is just qualification for these two weekends, and the best teams rarely get beat, or even get close to getting beat on these weekends.

The Cats and Pies will win, as they should, but my god would I love to be able to time travel to 7.45pm on Friday night, because the wait is starting to drive me nuts.

is it still only Tuesday night Matty?

 

[mattys123]

is it still only Tuesday night Matty?

Yep, I'm a little delirious too, I've been up since 5am and am now trying to watch the 07 elimination final on Fox (the one vs the Eagles that went to extra time).

I think I'll crash hard at about 3/4 time.

Thank god the game is a Friday game, I don't think I could stand waiting the whole Saturday if we had a Saturday night game.

 

[Ed D]

I want the game to hurry up as well. It seems like there is nothing to talk about that hasn't already been said. I seem to be getting caught up in conversations about teams and games that have nothing even to do with Collingwood.

 

[Swooper18]

We defeated Sydney in an elimination final, before defeating the Eagles six nights later. That finals series in 2007 saw us defeat the last two premiers (Sydney:2005 and West Coast:2006) before drawing to within 5 points of the heavily touted Cats. As far as I am concerned, there are no thoughts of defeat for me on Friday night. Like to know why? We have an abundance of midfielders who kick goals regularly. Hawthorn do not do this as often as we do.

 

[lozza63]

As far as I am concerned, there are no thoughts of defeat for me on Friday night. Like to know why? We have an abundance of midfielders who kick goals regularly. Hawthorn do not do this as often as we do.

This is spot on Swooper and here is evidence of this.

Hawthorn's top six mids according to the stats are
1. Sam Mitchell - 670 disposals, 11 goals.
2. Liam Sheils - 548, 11
3. Luke Hodge - 513, 18
4. Brad Sewell - 485, 5
5. Jordan Lewis - 467, 11
6. Shaun Burgoyne - 417, 16.

Grand total 3'100 disposals and 72 goals.

Collingwoods in comparison:
1. Swan - 708, 31
2. Pendles - 677, 24
3. Thomas - 477, 13
4. Ball - 475, 16
5. Sidebottom - 449, 23
6. Beams - 363, 21

Totals - 3'149 disposals and 128 goals.

So really there is no discernable difference in ball getting ability - it's just that our mids can and do sting on the scoreboard.

Hawks top four forwards
Buddy, Cyril, Hale, Osborne = 147 goals - significantly here Breust a brilliant goal sneak in his own right with 30 goals may not make the team?

Pies top four forwards
Cloke, Krak, Blair, Dawes = 145 goals - similar to Hawks here.

Issac Smith and Brendon Whitecross are significant having contributed 36 goals this season.

For Collingwood Leigh Brown and Sharrod Wellingham have also impacted the scoreboard with 38 goals.

Defensively the Hawks have conceded approx 76 points per game.

Collingwood have conceded approx 70 points per game.

Not sure if these stats are significant, however, Hawthorn have worked the ball out of defense mainly through Gibson, Birchall, Guerra and Suckling.

Meanwhile Pies have Davis, O'Brien, Shaw and Reid as our rebound outlets.

As to how relevant all of these stats are on Friday who knows - but hell the Hawks are right in this.

Just love the impact our mids have on the scoreboard - i hope that their goal scoring ability can see us safely over the line Friday!

PS - i am not as sure as you Swooper about Friday though - note posting time!

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

If they were to have a skills competition, Blair would win. Rioli is routinely sloppy with ball use.

He he. But apparently I'm clueless. Nice.