Preview AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:50PM (10 minutes delayed)

[TommyJay]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Flood/zone/frontal pressure...call it what you like but it is essentially a rolling chess board of a zone ahead of the ball. Saints have taken what Clarko started and applied it ruthlessly and consistently. They have way more mental discipline than the Hawks, so it still works for them. It seems to me though that Hawthorn tried to run from defence whereas Saints are more inclined to kick long and accurate to space, a la Goddard.
It is very much good defence, but it is horrible to watch as a spectator. I admire the players for having the mental discipline to stick to it, but I feel sorry for them. All that work, subjugation of flair and nothing to show for it.
It will be a greta game though. I still think St Kilda are the only team with the capabilities to challenge us at our best. They just get the job done.
But I feel we have improved significantly from last year in key areas that will particularly help against St Kilda.
Josh Hunt's kicking will be critical, as is his ability to nullify a small forward like Milne or Schneider. Wojinski's good form and run is a huge asset for zone breaking.
Pods is the sticky handed goal kicking machine that we have lacked. God help Zac Dawson if he gets Pods....it won't be pretty.
And Varcoe's newly acquired grunt and presence.
And let's not forget SJ was missing in RD 14 last year and was severely hampered in the GF, even though he was important in the last quarter.
Not sure where the improvement is at St Kilda tbh, particularly without Roo.

I think the improvement in St Kilda has come exactly from the absence of Roo. Sure, we had a few weeks to find our legs when he was out, and we looked dangerously like the bottom had fallen out of our team, however we have started to be able to kick scores without him. Once we put Stanley in as his replacement, that solved the problem of structure. But obviously Stanley was never going to have the same output, so we needed others to step up, consequently we've had 5 goal games out of people like Milne, Goddard and Joey, which hasn't happened as often last year. Kosi is also looking like improving, and we've been still winning even with him being almost completely ineffectual. By no stretch do I think that this improvement means we're a certainty to beat the Cats, but I think now if we come up against you in the finals and Roo is firing, we can rely on him like we tried to do last year. However if he's shut out, we've now got several more viable options.

Also from a spectacle point of view, when you support the team it's not bad to watch at all. I hate the other team kicking goals almost as much as I love my own team kicking them, and so I don't have to be subjected to that as much as other teams do. I can understand that from a neutral point of view it's not as much fun, and certainly when you're the team who is getting kept to only 10 goals(ish), but I think if our average score is somewhere between 90-100 (which it has been since we started the gameplan) we can't be overly focused on defence, we've been scoring too with the exception of a few torrid games.

 

[witsend]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

I think the improvement in St Kilda has come exactly from the absence of Roo. Sure, we had a few weeks to find our legs when he was out, and we looked dangerously like the bottom had fallen out of our team, however we have started to be able to kick scores without him. Once we put Stanley in as his replacement, that solved the problem of structure. But obviously Stanley was never going to have the same output, so we needed others to step up, consequently we've had 5 goal games out of people like Milne, Goddard and Joey, which hasn't happened as often last year. Kosi is also looking like improving, and we've been still winning even with him being almost completely ineffectual. By no stretch do I think that this improvement means we're a certainty to beat the Cats, but I think now if we come up against you in the finals and Roo is firing, we can rely on him like we tried to do last year. However if he's shut out, we've now got several more viable options.

Also from a spectacle point of view, when you support the team it's not bad to watch at all. I hate the other team kicking goals almost as much as I love my own team kicking them, and so I don't have to be subjected to that as much as other teams do. I can understand that from a neutral point of view it's not as much fun, and certainly when you're the team who is getting kept to only 10 goals(ish), but I think if our average score is somewhere between 90-100 (which it has been since we started the gameplan) we can't be overly focused on defence, we've been scoring too with the exception of a few torrid games.

It's always great to watch when you're winning!!
I agree that there has been improvement without Roo. Others can't just rely on him.
It will be very interesting when he comes back in.
I would expect another 2-3 week difficult adjustment period for him and the team.
Without wanting to seem patronising, I just feel this group had the best season they will ever have in terms of form and fitness last year and stumbled at the final hurdle.
I can tell you that had Geelong lost that 5 point PF in 2007 to Collingwood, it would not have surprised me if we never won a flag at all. The scars would have run too deep IMO.
Again...not a great fan of the game plan but admire the belief and discipline.
Do you think Leigh Tudor had much to do with the resurgence or was it in place prior to 2009?

PS Go Lakers!

 

[TommyJay]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

It's always great to watch when you're winning!!
I agree that there has been improvement without Roo. Others can't just rely on him.
It will be very interesting when he comes back in.
I would expect another 2-3 week difficult adjustment period for him and the team.
Without wanting to seem patronising, I just feel this group had the best season they will ever have in terms of form and fitness last year and stumbled at the final hurdle.
I can tell you that had Geelong lost that 5 point PF in 2007 to Collingwood, it would not have surprised me if we never won a flag at all. The scars would have run too deep IMO.
Again...not a great fan of the game plan but admire the belief and discipline.
Do you think Leigh Tudor had much to do with the resurgence or was it in place prior to 2009?

PS Go Lakers!

Agree with the best season they will ever have, but I don't think it takes that to win the flag. Example being Geelong in 2008. Had a superior season to their 2009 season (IMO) and fell at the last hurdle. I'd prefer to win the GF than just have another dominant H&A season like we did in 2009 that just leaves you feeling hollow.

Absolutely think Leigh Tudor has played a big role, I think the other man who has played a big role is David Misson (our fitness coach). We have a few injuries at the moment, but over the last 18 months they have been monumentally down in comparison to the last 10 years. So thanks to you guys for Leigh btw

Haha Celtics all the way!

 

[Vdubs]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

I'd like to see Ottens & Corey play, IN THE 2'S. Would be nice to have them get some essential fitness and form, not be underdone like Max was against Blues. Corey relies on his fitness to be of some value, and with that obviously lacking at present, he would be less value than Hogan .

Would like to see a team without Ottens, Corey, Hawkins, Rooke lineup against St. Kilda; that would be a reflection of our depth. Mooney must be in, but West or Simpson must play against Gardiner, McEvoy, Stanley-that's an average height of 200cm. Blake will hold his own but needs help.

 

[mysainters]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Agree with the Saints poster above, our improvement has come from the opportunity to learn to win without always relying Roo. Hopefully we will be a better team on his return, than before he left.

 

[Jpod31]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Geelong are still the best team, and i reckon they have stretched the gap between st kilda. Geelong have a new weapon in pods, he is prob the best contested mark in the afl, if he is on song he will take many marks inside 50 and he can also set up many goals, he and mooney play the roles of what reiwoldt did. St kilda might have to double or triple team him, but as i say he can leap high, strong mark and doesnt drop the ball, probs would play on gilbert. They say he is also geelongs quickest player on the lead.

cmon which st kilder player can play on him, farren ray LMFAO, his got too many strengths and he will bring stokes, burns into play

geelong by 26-33 pts
if at skilled 60+

 

[PatrickBateman]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Saints paying $3 for a win at clear 2nd on the ladder? Dam, are we really that much better than the rest of the comp??

I guess considering our injuries of late and continued dominance suggests so. Still, $3 is good money for mine. We're probably due.

 

[SJ]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Saints paying $3 for a win at clear 2nd on the ladder? Dam, are we really that much better than the rest of the comp??

I guess considering our injuries of late and continued dominance suggests so. Still, $3 is good money for mine. We're probably due.

Not saying St Kilda aren't value, but if you had a nibble on the opposition every time that was said over the past four years, you would have lost a lot more coin than you would have won.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Not saying St Kilda aren't value, but if you had a nibble on the opposition every time that was said over the past four years, you would have lost a lot more coin than you would have won.

Oh so true. I have a mate that did that up until about 1yr ago, kept losing money.

A lot of people bet against their team in big games to soften the blow in the case of a loss.

 

[JUBJUB]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

cmon which st kilder player can play on him, farren ray LMFAO, his got too many strengths and he will bring stokes, burns into play

Ronnie retired years ago

 

[Jpod31]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

st kilda defence will struggle to deal with the pods, mooney, stevie j, ablett and chappy

player marks contested marks

Sam Gilbert 104 15
Jason Blake 94 10
Brendon Goddard 81 23
Steven Baker 78 1
Sam Fisher 73 9

430 marks
58 contested
13% of marks contested

pods already has 35 in 9 games
mooney 19
stevie j 10


st kilda rely on extra numbers and hold opponents down while the 3rd man comes in, but if geelong are quick and direct the forwards should eat the saints defence

 

[DanA]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

To me we look better across ever line than St Kilda. I just can't see how they will get within 30 points of us given we have a rest and a number of returning players.

Right now they don't look competitive, at least not until they get Reiwoldt back.

 

[thomas_m18]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

To me we look better across ever line than St Kilda. I just can't see how they will get within 30 points of us given we have a rest and a number of returning players.

Right now they don't look competitive, at least not until they get Reiwoldt back.

To our credit, we've won four in a row, including Freo at Subi, something you guys just missed out on (I'd say Freo were better against you guys then against us, but it's still Freo). Obviously, Riewoldt means heaps, but we've improved on where we were in Round 7. We've been good past four games, not 2009 Saints good, but still half decent.

Second on the ladder looks fairly competitive to me, and I'm hoping it will be a tale of the top two teams slugging it out.

Just a question though. If we're not competitive, who do you see as competitive? You guys are a class above, I realise that, but is there a team that can get closer to you blokes than we can?

 

[witsend]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

To our credit, we've won four in a row, including Freo at Subi, something you guys just missed out on (I'd say Freo were better against you guys then against us, but it's still Freo). Obviously, Riewoldt means heaps, but we've improved on where we were in Round 7. We've been good past four games, not 2009 Saints good, but still half decent.

Second on the ladder looks fairly competitive to me, and I'm hoping it will be a tale of the top two teams slugging it out.

Just a question though. If we're not competitive, who do you see as competitive? You guys are a class above, I realise that, but is there a team that can get closer to you blokes than we can?

In the form we are in right now, we are almost unbeatable, but they don't give out flags in June. Form and confidence can disappear as quickly as it comes.
But it would be fair to say that Geelong has proved over the past 3-4 years that they can be relied upon to be consistent, ruthless and hungry.
I never thought it at the time, but the 2008 loss may have elevated us to another level. It's always there as a reminder of what can happen if you don't bring your A Game, and, more importantly, get everyone fit for September.
I think the main cause for excitement for us Cats fans is that it's not just the same old faces getting us up.
Byrnes has become a top 22, Varcoe is on the verge of being top 10. Pods is a bloody Godsend! Hawkins (pre-injury) was looking to find some of the form he was suspected of having and the old crew keep on doing what the old crew do and Chapman is in Brownlow-esque, career-best form. And all this without Ottens, Corey, Scarlett, Rooke, Mooney & Hawkins!
Good times....

 

[Goddardthegun]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Hi guys, i believe geelong are in much better shape and we r are in far worse shape than round 14 last year, just out of interest who do you geelong supporters think will go to goddard? cheers

 

[witsend]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Hi guys, i believe geelong are in much better shape and we r are in far worse shape than round 14 last year, just out of interest who do you geelong supporters think will go to goddard? cheers

If he plays as a loose man in defence, I would imagine we'll just presume we can pressure him enough to dull his effect. We won't be just kicking long to a contest so he can clean up like Freo were last week.
If he's loose we'll have someone free down back, too. Probably, Mackie or Milburn.

 

[The Big JPOD]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

If he plays as a loose man in defence, I would imagine we'll just presume we can pressure him enough to dull his effect. We won't be just kicking long to a contest so he can clean up like Freo were last week.
If he's loose we'll have someone free down back, too. Probably, Mackie or Milburn.

Yeah well said! With Roo out they cant afford to have a spair player floating around! Goddard to play mainly in the midfield and try to push forward! He is a super player and one we have to watch out for!

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

To our credit, we've won four in a row, including Freo at Subi, something you guys just missed out on (I'd say Freo were better against you guys then against us, but it's still Freo). Obviously, Riewoldt means heaps, but we've improved on where we were in Round 7. We've been good past four games, not 2009 Saints good, but still half decent.

Second on the ladder looks fairly competitive to me, and I'm hoping it will be a tale of the top two teams slugging it out.

Just a question though. If we're not competitive, who do you see as competitive? You guys are a class above, I realise that, but is there a team that can get closer to you blokes than we can?

Even if we won by 100 points next week I would not underestimate a saints outfit with a fit and firing roo come finals time... so to me you guys are still our biggest rival for the flag at the moment. But it is still early days.

Then I would give it to Bullies and Hawks, they always seem to get up to play against us and they are always close games.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

We just need to ensure quick ball movement to prevent St Kilda getting 12 or more deep in defence. If we can manufacture Pods one out deep with Zac Dawson often enough, he will destroy him.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

I'd like to see Ottens & Corey play, IN THE 2'S. Would be nice to have them get some essential fitness and form, not be underdone like Max was against Blues. Corey relies on his fitness to be of some value, and with that obviously lacking at present, he would be less value than Hogan .

Would like to see a team without Ottens, Corey, Hawkins, Rooke lineup against St. Kilda; that would be a reflection of our depth. Mooney must be in, but West or Simpson must play against Gardiner, McEvoy, Stanley-that's an average height of 200cm. Blake will hold his own but needs help.

I would agree. The fact that Joel wants to play 2's tells me he knows he needs match time and to get touch back, let him have it.

For me West played well and should play again.

Thus Scarlett and Mooney come in and two blokes go out, probably Hogan and Taylor Hunt (I'd drop Mackie and keep young Taylor, but Bomber's not me) I'd say.

 

[witsend]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

We just need to ensure quick ball movement to prevent St Kilda getting 12 or more deep in defence. If we can manufacture Pods one out deep with Zac Dawson often enough, he will destroy him.

Yeah...I've been looking forward to that match-up. Zac the Hack won't know what hit him.
Jeebus...can you imagine what Pods will do to the Hawthorn back-line in a couple of weeks??!!

 

[witsend]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

I would agree. The fact that Joel wants to play 2's tells me he knows he needs match time and to get touch back, let him have it.

For me West played well and should play again.

Thus Scarlett and Mooney come in and two blokes go out, probably Hogan and Taylor Hunt (I'd drop Mackie and keep young Taylor, but Bomber's not me) I'd say.

+1
Remember what happened when Max came back in the 1's underdone against Carlton?
Let 'em get some confidence and fitness in the magoos. Means more game time for the kids, too.

 

[TommyJay]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Yeah...I've been looking forward to that match-up. Zac the Hack won't know what hit him.
Jeebus...can you imagine what Pods will do to the Hawthorn back-line in a couple of weeks??!!

Zac might not actually play. He hasn't played for two weeks and we were impressive enough (I think) save for some poor conversion at the end of the Freo match to go in unchanged if Raph isn't injured. If he is, I think it's more likely you'll see Gram in for Raph rather than Zac. I'd say Fisher will probably go to Pods and leave Gilbert to do the mopping up and rebound out of defence.

 

[witsend]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Zac might not actually play. He hasn't played for two weeks and we were impressive enough (I think) save for some poor conversion at the end of the Freo match to go in unchanged if Raph isn't injured. If he is, I think it's more likely you'll see Gram in for Raph rather than Zac. I'd say Fisher will probably go to Pods and leave Gilbert to do the mopping up and rebound out of defence.

Interestingly, I reckon Zac and Raph not in is a win for you guys. No disrespect intended but I don't rate either at all, and what I know of your back-line, they seem to work better without their clangers.

 

[TommyJay]

Re: AFL Round 13 - St Kilda v Geelong, MCG, Friday 25 June 7:40PM

Interestingly, I reckon Zac and Raph not in is a win for you guys. No disrespect intended but I don't rate either at all, and what I know of your back-line, they seem to work better without their clangers.

Haha no problem mate, 90% of Saints fans will totally agree with you. At the moment I agree with Zac, but Raph has actually found some form of late, hasn't produced as many clangers and has provided some really good leg speed running out of defence. Disaster on GF day, but I'd happily have him on the team at the moment. He (watch me get eaten alive my Saints supporters...) is actually a loss for us.