Review AFL Round 13 - Sydney defeat Geelong by 6 points.

[Turbocat]

I could quite easily lay Stokes to waste , decimate Wojo , obliterate Joel Corey on last night but to me there is something more endemic than just the odd player.

We have never been the quickest side by foot , but we made up for this by the surest of hands , the purest of dispossal and the clearest of mind. To watch our guys still fumble like its R1 and we haven't touch a ball for ages, to watch us butcher non-pressured chances with sub level foot skills , not to forget conversion form set shots , and then making stupid, stupid choices & decisions, whatever you want to call it .

Something is crook in Tallarook.

Is it just oldman time finally asking for his share? No one owns talent , they only borrow it.
Not only does it get harder as you lose talent because the talent is not there, one has to be prepared to do stuff that was previously beneath them. Some players continually say they had the best preseason for yonks yet can not command the game the way they once could.

Is it more there that some have gone to the well so often , that shoulders can no longer carry their fair load of water. Sort like the first I suppose but to my mind not just the natural occurrence of time , some guys have damaged themselves doing what was required. Champions all , that I'm proud of , that I will be ever be grateful to. I don't advocate the type of end as it was Boxer in Animal Farm but it appears that some players who given their all , and perhaps have no more to give.

Is there a few guys who have gotten by with a great team that are now showing they cant bake a meal when its their turn in the kitchen. A blistering run here , a mercurial mark there all looked like fantastic with group we had. But ask them to be the core of our side now and simply not capable of being mainstay players. Its no ones fault some are built to deliver desert , other a built to bring the main meal.

No matter what we should all take a deep breath. Everytime the guys just fall short of what we a re used to , we should remember what they have given us. Not just the success , the transition of our club from pretender to benchmark.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Not sure of the stats or hitouts but I thought West did well around the ground yesterday. I liked his goal.

West was very good, kicked that great goal to start our run and dominated Mumford once Simpson went off (Daws was ok, just didn't have the petrol tickets). Yes we are massively missing Ottens and will continue to do so but West is improving and we have to stick with him.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Are you serious? Goodes being called to play on, the non-existent 50 which gifted you a goal? Don't get me started.

WOW! seriously wow.

 

[darren forssman]

ensure your opponent doesn't just merrily dominate.

was his opponent one rhyce shaw in the first 3 quarters?

or was shaw opposed to motlop for the whole game?

i just dont get why we kick it to him one-on-one so often. he must train the house down and outmark guys taller and stronger than him.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

We've lost six and drawn one (against GWS) first quarter so far this season. We've coughed up double digit deficits by quarter time on five occasions already (losing four of them). Yeah, great comeback, but the evidence suggests we can not afford to be playing this poorly in the first quarter, week after week. This is your first serious challenge, Scotty. You need to fix this.

Do agree. There is a positive in that our second halves are consistently strong but if we start like that we won't win games. They do need to address it as teams are using their run and spread to open us up early and for some reason it takes us far too long to counter that and get it back on our terms. Same thing happened early against Carlton, and Freo, and Adelaide etc. It stuck in my mind that Sydney absolutely dominated the first quarter yet they were only up by 3 or 4 (I think) in contested poss at 1/4, so it was all spread where they got us. Now some things can be done quickly to address it, for example no one going near manning McGlynn up all quarter, and Enright standing on the wrong side of Jetta at that stoppage, but more broadly, there's not a lot they can do at selection to bring more run and carry into the side and change that (because we don't have heaps of those players in the vfl team who are ready). For sure I'm an advocate of dropping e.g. Stokes for Guthrie but it won't solely fix that problem. So it needs a tactical solution from the coaches and players.

 

[r32godzilla]

Why is Josh Hunt in the side..

To kick the ball long and precise to clear the zone?

Then why doesn't he ******* do it!

Great point! He has such a damaging long kick why the fk doesn't he just kick long all the time. Practice setting up more off his long kicks instead of him chipping short and half the time causing a turnover. Play to your strengths not weaknesses, its not bloody rocket science. Harry to the forward line, Bundy starting and make it clear to the guys not putting in 100% every game that they will be dropped. Positive signs after the first quarter but for fk's sake can we start games off well and work for 4 quarters instead of giving the opposition a head start and then attempting a Lazarus miraculous bloody comeback every game?!

 

[Pure_Ownage]

was his opponent one rhyce shaw in the first 3 quarters?

or was shaw opposed to motlop for the whole game?

i just dont get why we kick it to him one-on-one so often. he must train the house down and outmark guys taller and stronger than him.

Shaw was mostly with Motlop.

Stokes had a second year kid in Alex Johnson who mopped up everything that came in and dominated him.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Why do we win a premiership and change a successful game plan?

The reason is fitness. We are simply not fit enough to continuously pressure, tackle and harrass for sustained periods.

Now people will say "we must be fit we finish off games better". The reason for this is playing smarter football.

Motlop just couldn't chase and continually let Shaw run away from the backline along with a few others.

We need to be better at the back of stoppages. Teams continually get the ball out the back too easy and clear the contest.

I don't know who our tackling coach is but he is dreadful.

 

[darren forssman]

Shaw was mostly with Motlop.

Stokes had a second year kid in Alex Johnson who mopped up everything that came in and dominated him.

hard to tell on tv who is matched against who sometimes.

johnson, the guy who unopposed setup everitt for the winning goal?

 

[Partridge]

That's silly he played every game 2010 after his club suspension under Thompson and 23 of a possible 25 in the premiership side of 2011 under Scott.
Admittedly he is struggling at the moment and one wonders the logic of playing him last night coming off a two week hamstring and his days may be numbered.
But to say he's been like that for years and anyone would be better is a bridge to far.
Some times you just have to trust the Club to be making the right decisions and 3 flags in 5 years says they have some clue.

That just means Thompson had an irrational love for him. He played well in patches last year, but his disposal has been declining for some time. If you don't believe me watch the Grand Final - last year's - and check out the easy shots he butchers.

Good player when in top form. But way too inconsistent and the bad outweighs the good. Notice last night how he turned his back to goal AGAIN after taking a mark (which he failed to make the distance from).

 

[Partridge]

He was a lot quieter against - Richmond? Brisbane? - iirc, but again, I wouldn't complain if Stokes was dropped, but he keeps getting picked so I was working on that being likely to continue. Horlin-Smith couldn't offer much less than Stokes has been.
Stokes was among the best against the Pies, tho, which was hardly a low pressure game - he's pretty limited and often easily shut down, but no moreso in big games imo. Has had a few good finals, too.

And one pretty spectacularly bad one.

 

[Partridge]

No matter what we should all take a deep breath. Everytime the guys just fall short of what we a re used to , we should remember what they have given us. Not just the success , the transition of our club from pretender to benchmark.

Thinking like that is why they didn't win a flag for 44 years - trading on past glories.

What they have achieved so far has been great, but it doesn't stop now. They won't be a benchmark for long if they refuse to make tough decisions and stagnate for the next 5-10 years. They'll be back to being the butt of other fan's jokes.

I seriously think some fans would rather be nice and come second rather than be ruthless and finish first. Refusing to criticise players because of what they did 5 years ago is idiotic. On that basis no young player will ever get a game.

 

[Partridge]

West was very good, kicked that great goal to start our run and dominated Mumford once Simpson went off (Daws was ok, just didn't have the petrol tickets). Yes we are massively missing Ottens and will continue to do so but West is improving and we have to stick with him.

Well said. Given that Mumford is the second coming and West is useless I wonder how many paid attention to that. One thing that is becoming clear is West finishes games very well. He's done it a few times. He's not the best ruckman and still needs improvement but he's getting better.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

hard to tell on tv who is matched against who sometimes.

johnson, the guy who unopposed setup everitt for the winning goal?

I think it was him yes.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Well said. Given that Mumford is the second coming and West is useless I wonder how many paid attention to that. One thing that is becoming clear is West finishes games very well. He's done it a few times. He's not the best ruckman and still needs improvement but he's getting better.

He does seem to finish games well and in the games where he's rucked solo etc I've been expecting him to run out of puff in the last but he keeps going. He needs to improve, most particularly his tap work, but he is a much better player than he was 12 months ago and will keep on that curve if we persist with him.

 

[Partridge]

He does seem to finish games well and in the games where he's rucked solo etc I've been expecting him to run out of puff in the last but he keeps going. He needs to improve, most particularly his tap work, but he is a much better player than he was 12 months ago and will keep on that curve if we persist with him.

I don't know, to me it seems some players get granted a very long time to show their abilities (Varcoe was certainly one), but others get no time at all. West and Gillies come into this category.

West showed last night when he gets his timing right he's a good tap ruckman. Terrific leap too. Just when that timing is out (as it was against Carlton) he doesn't get near it.

Lonergan and Hawkins demonstrate pretty convincingly the folly of judging players after 30 games. With any luck West could be another one.

 

[Belisarius]

I think we need to look at results and be a bit more realistic re the 2012 season.

We only just lost to Collingwood and Sydney - both good sides. So you would think we are not off the pace that far - but bad losses to Adelaide and North makes you yhink a bit differently.

We have not played consistently well in games as we did in the past seasons. We have lost the contested footy. Both hallmarks of the club over the past 5 or seasons.

We probably have lost a player too many - Ling may have been the tipping poing - and clearly Ottens was a big loss.

Injuries have robbed us of depth at AFL level. I think most Cat people would have thought Varcoe and Menzel would be back playing senior footy by now. Both big losses.

When we needed a ruckman to help out West we lost Simpson. Had he playing all season and had a decent pre-season - he would be obviously a fitter and more robust player for us than he can be right now.

It seems we have lost a bit of pace out of the team as well. Having Wojo out for most of the season, with Varcoe, has robbed us any real leg speed. It helps to have THunt but we have looked a little slow this season (or the other teams are a bit quicker).

The very interupted progress in Motlop and Brown due to serious injuries has also had a minor impact.

Vardy - a player that might excite Cats fans - misses the AFL season.

Then you add the loss of Ablett and Mumford - and you can see we have had a bit of a hard road and rocky road - even though we have been very successful.

It wasn't like we had a large number of high draft picks or had our fair share of injuries (Egan) - and the loss of players - we just recruited and played better than any other team.

As stated by some others on this thread - I am not sure our best will be enough this year. Anything is possible but we are just off the pace of the more likely Premiership contenders.

I would like to see Simpson get more game - and with some AFL game time Bundy will be a big in for us. Bring Horlin-Smith - maybe as the sub.

Do not throw older players on the scrap heap but over the remaining half of the season keep playing and / or trialling good looking prospects.

I think Corey needs to be in and out of the side - allowing us every few weeks to try some worth seeing in the AFL (Shroder, Brown, Simpkin, Horlin-Smith, Smedts, Guthrie, Gillies and Kersten).

Add to that list JHunt, Wojo and Stokes. All good players but as we have so lost champions now - we need our B graders to be better. Wojo is a season or two from retirement - JHunt 2-3 and Stokes is just not consistent enough given the amount of forward 50 entries we get. These players are good enough generally. and very good on their day but simply do not have that many very good days anymore. And the side needs to improve.

I suspect we have 3-4 really good players in VFL right now - who will be good AFL players for us. Too many seem to have real potential for some of it not to be realised.

Rotate then some our champion older players like we did last year - give some time then to these up and coming players - and see what happens. Hopefully Varcoe will be back late in the season and Simpson should make progress and fitness as the season rolls on.

Make the 8 and see what happens.

 

[catseye]

The result is more to do with work rate than anything else.

Lack of spread to clear around stoppages. Selwood and Bundy (When he finally got a run) tried their guts out but that was about it. I thought Corey tried hard in the end, so to Chappy, but they now struggle to keep their feet tending more to fall. Harder to spread around the stoppages when that happens.

Almost no pressure exerted by our forward line to hold the ball in. One tackle each to our forwards. Tommy and Pods I could understand, but our small forwards need to be a lot better than that. They need to watch West Coast to see how it is done. Stokes, now I have lost patience. Lets give a game to someone else that wants to contribute. I've resigned to the fact that Trav won't be playing this year which we miss more than we think.

Lack of work rate to lead up, particularly HF and FF. Did anyone notice Bartel running through the centre willing someone to lead. I am sure this part of the reason for the senseless bombs into the forward line

Lack of accountability of our HB and mids to man up, particularly in the first half of the game. Loose Swans players in their forward 50 was symptomatic of this

Whether work rate is more to do with age or desire, I don't know.

Still a good chance to make the 8 and do some damage, however we are only one upset loss away from missing the 8. Remember Port did beat us at SS 2 years ago, so we cannot afford to take our foot off the pedal at any stage

 

[ATSAM]

Good call Turbocat. But waht is it we wonder. Are they mentally fatigued from being the benchmark for so long, for being the hunted for the past six seasons- and for some a lot longer if we go back to those in the 2002 VFL GF-, are we missing Sanderson, did we just have a team that comes along once or twice in a lifetime. Is is just older players/
Whatever certainly the last few years makes the pain a bit easier to bear. But who knows the big cat may roar again this year.

 

[Hinkley29]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but Motlops defensive game needs some serious development. His lack of willingness to put pressure on Shaw and lack of awareness as to defensive positioning cost us big time in the first half.

 

[Catsace]

I could quite easily lay Stokes to waste , decimate Wojo , obliterate Joel Corey on last night but to me there is something more endemic than just the odd player.

We have never been the quickest side by foot , but we made up for this by the surest of hands , the purest of dispossal and the clearest of mind. To watch our guys still fumble like its R1 and we haven't touch a ball for ages, to watch us butcher non-pressured chances with sub level foot skills , not to forget conversion form set shots , and then making stupid, stupid choices & decisions, whatever you want to call it .

Something is crook in Tallarook.

Is it just oldman time finally asking for his share? No one owns talent , they only borrow it.
Not only does it get harder as you lose talent because the talent is not there, one has to be prepared to do stuff that was previously beneath them. Some players continually say they had the best preseason for yonks yet can not command the game the way they once could.

Is it more there that some have gone to the well so often , that shoulders can no longer carry their fair load of water. Sort like the first I suppose but to my mind not just the natural occurrence of time , some guys have damaged themselves doing what was required. Champions all , that I'm proud of , that I will be ever be grateful to. I don't advocate the type of end as it was Boxer in Animal Farm but it appears that some players who given their all , and perhaps have no more to give.

Is there a few guys who have gotten by with a great team that are now showing they cant bake a meal when its their turn in the kitchen. A blistering run here , a mercurial mark there all looked like fantastic with group we had. But ask them to be the core of our side now and simply not capable of being mainstay players. Its no ones fault some are built to deliver desert , other a built to bring the main meal.

No matter what we should all take a deep breath. Everytime the guys just fall short of what we a re used to , we should remember what they have given us. Not just the success , the transition of our club from pretender to benchmark.

That is succinctly put and a fantastic analogy. Five years of being the best, and eight years of being 'up' is just so hard. Players are younger, trained to the Nth degree and the might Geelong warriors like Corey, Enright, Chapman, Scarlett etc have played their hearts out. Last night i think is a bit of a watershed, i think Geelong might be best to try and just use the rest of the year to play the younger ones over some that have perhaps reached the decline stage, and see if they can step into the roles the champions have played.

Someone did say Corey could be tried in a run-with role? See if he can, or is willing to as he is at least very aerobic and can last the day. But we need new blood to carry the ball around the ground, the spread is just too taxing on blokes who by their own dynamic skills and dash were able to beat teams on skill and power for the last few years.

 

[OldStyle2007]

Mitch "Farren" Duncan was back. 16 disposals, 2 tackles in the biggest game of the season

Analysis: SELL

 

[AlterRob]

Mitch "Farren" Duncan was back. 16 disposals, 2 tackles in the biggest game of the season

Analysis: SELL

Kid has a bad game so sell? No thanks.

 

[OldStyle2007]

I mean, if there's a decent trade out there we should look at it. I can't see him being the regular 30 disposal guy we were planning on

 

[AlterRob]

I dunno, I thought he has improved a fair bit this year and generally uses the ball really well by foot. He's a keeper for me.