MRP / Trib. AFL Round 20 charges - Steve Johnson cleared of misconduct for kneeing Scott Thompson

[betchsta]

All Stevie J needs to do is wear a Hawthorn jumper to the tribunal & that should be enough to allow him to play this weekend

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I've just watched the cats TV presser with CS talking about the SJ challenge.

basically Chris Scott said they:

"now take a conservative view of these things now, especially given the potential cost of him missing 2 games"

"ïf we do decide to take it up especially at this stage of the year with the stakes on offer then we would be absolutely sure that this incident didn't constitute a reportable offence"

"My position is that we would have to be absolutely adamant that there's been a travesty of justice here for us to even consider risking losing Steve for another game,"

"Given the fact that there was a 300-game umpire two metres away, and he didn't see the need to even pay a free kick, then I think that would work strongly in our favour,"

"The way the system works, for us to plead our case on this one, in what is a very innocuous incident, we have to risk Steve not only missing the biggest game of the season for us this week, but missing a really big game the week after for something that is, in the way footy's played, absolutely inconsequential."

As for whether the Match Review Panel system should be reviewed, Scott said: "I think the prevailing view across the competition at the moment, if I'm reading it accurately, is that given some of the other incidents across the weekend, the Steve one doesn't meet scrutiny.

http://www.geelongcats.com.au/video/2014-08-05/scott-on-johnson-charge-r20

This sort of situation is where Chris Scott is at his best. When we're looking for answers, as supporters, it can be frustrating, but I think he's just about the best in the game at getting his point across.

 

[Teriyakicat]

If it was an incident that was worthy of consideration by the MRP, the player would remember.

I guess my point is more that the players aren't playing a bruise-free game. They would pick up bruises from stray legs or arms in packs, from both teammates and opposition players alike. Also from tough tackles there they fall hard to ground, perhaps onto someone's boot. I would think they don't give these bruises more than a momentary thought.
I do see your point, however.

 

[Jazz71286]

It's a foregone conclusion.

You can't front the tribunal with evidence like "if the umpire closest didn't pay a free kick it shouldn't be reportable". That leaves the tribunal with the option of either upholding a ban against a repeat offender (5 min deliberation time, now lets get dinner guys) or admit that a mistake was made, and they don't like doing that.

Previous cases have shown you need to come to the table with new evidence, you can't just claim a player shouldn't be banned because you personally don't believe they should be.

Kudos to Geelong for finally standing up to the treatment we receive from the MRP, but this was not the case to do so imo.

 

[Teriyakicat]

It's fine in principle. You get a 125 point penalty, if you're a cleanskin, you can plea it down and avoid suspension. But you shouldn't be able to bargain 125 points down to 0, which is where the carryover points works well.

There's a multitude of problems with the system and the biggest one with the points, as far as I'm concerned, is the MRP seems to have gone back to the philosophy of working out how many weeks something is worth first, then trying to figure out how to check the boxes so it arrives at that verdict.

I totally agree with this post, MC. It deserves

How many times do we ask why something is graded as reckless or as negligent? To me, the MRP have these classifications so as to allow them the wriggle room to lock someone away or to let a player off scott-free by minimising their activation points. No matter how many times they explain the difference between these two classifications, they continue to confuse us by their application of the two. Then they front up on a Monday evening and attempt to convince us that black is white and vice versa

 

[Teriyakicat]

Could Stevie just leave the whacking, kneeing, pinching and punching etc of the deserving until his last game before retirement?

Maybe Geelong could host a round robin in his honour? Lol

 

[catempire]

A glancing blow that the player brushes off pretty much instantly (within a couple of seconds or less).

I really think relying on player reactions is fraught for obvious reasons. The medical report approach is the right one, so long as it applies both ways - serving both as evidence of sufficient force where there is a medically observed consequence of an action AND evidence of insufficient force in the absence of any consequence.

 

[Teriyakicat]

I don't really understand on what grounds they feel they can appeal? Insufficient force? Good luck. The vision shows Steve electing to stay in the wrestle when he could have peeled himself off. He won't get any sympathy or leniency. At this stage I'd probably laugh if he missed the Carlton game as well. Stupid on many levels, from the man to the system itself.

I reckon it's bloody difficult to stand up if you're pulled off balance by someone with a handful of jumper. It doesn't take much force, if you're not expecting it. And that is why SJ gave him a shove with his knee- I don't have any problem saying that was a deliberate poke but it was no more than a poke.
Maybe he shouldn't have poked the bear?

 

[Willo_]

The moment i saw it Saturday night i knew he would be in trouble.... people can moan about how unfair it is how it's a joke... The joke is he continues to put himself in these positions. .

Our skipper got crucified against the Hawks a few years back and that was a joke, but he simply hasn't put himself in that position to get bent over by the MRP again... and you know what he hasn't been rubbed out again!!

How f'n hard is it SJ.... F**K

 

[Willo_]

Also fwiw I don't think he should have got suspended for it....

 

[OzeSparky]

Geelong should have been contesting the ridiculous charges we have been giving over the past few seasons, SJ has accepted a lot that should have been challenged. Us as supporters are over our club being reemed. Long and well overdue this is.

 

[Zouz Kitty]

both said at the time there was a bit of acting from Thompson, pulling him down into Thompson "Both players enjoying the bi-play there"

It's VERY bright. No wonder you get migraines

At least it's not a toilet brush

 

[Teriyakicat]

I'm pretty sure it was on Footy Classified (one of last night's panel shows anyway), because the inference was that North's medical report must have put Johnson in, it was being said that North was denying that was an accurate version. And I could have this wrong, but the way I remember it, they were even saying North wasn't even asked to provide a report. We shall see.

I think it can also be appealed on the basis that Johnson had clearly tried to get away a couple of times and Thompson kept pulling him back. I think if he can convince the tribunal that Thompson made contact to his leg immediately before, causing him to lose balance, combined with the mystery surrounding North's medical report, that's not a bad case at all.

I don't think they can deny the "deliberate" action- though he was certainly provoked- they'll have to try the "insufficient force" angle, I'd say.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall at the Tribunal tonight and I reckon I'd buy SJ's book if he wrote one after he retired.
The AFL probably make players sign a contract of 40 years' silence, so he probably can't include too much juicy stuff

 

[Willo_]

But to get off I suggest he wears a brown and gold tie tonight, the tribunal will be baffled and confused... instantly clearing him, apologizing profusely, then will pay for his trip home and buy him dinner

 

[Teriyakicat]

both said at the time there was a bit of acting from Thompson, pulling him down into Thompson "Both players enjoying the bi-play there"



At least it's not a toilet brush

Hey!! it's NOT a toilet brush! It's a bacteriophage, actually. But I wouldn't expect you to know that

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I really think relying on player reactions is fraught for obvious reasons. The medical report approach is the right one, so long as it applies both ways - serving both as evidence of sufficient force where there is a medically observed consequence of an action AND evidence of insufficient force in the absence of any consequence.

Of course. They use both. I would argue that it would be impossible to at least build a shortlist of incidents that require follow-up, unless the MRP uses player reactions as a guide.I don't think Johnson would have been given a suspension, if Thompson hadn't had the reaction he did (whether it was justified or exaggerated).

And form our perspective, the point is: we don't have access at all to the medical report and don't even have a rough idea of its contents until the statement is already released, therefore, if we want to speculate on MRP penalties/non-penalties, we have to adopt a similar sort of rule of thumb, to the one that I have proposed (whether people generally agree with those gradings or not). Otherwise, you can only really put a big question mark in that box, until the findings have already been made.

 

[Vdubs]

All Stevie J needs to do is wear a Hawthorn jumper to the tribunal & that should be enough to allow him to play this weekend

pull his head in, concentrate for a whole match, and play the ball only. His good mate Ablett cops more attention and is exemplary. Why is it always SJ who is the one involved in these fiascos?
The worst thing is, he never hurts anyone except himself and our team; everything he does to get cited is trivial, painless, non-injurious, and so frustrating, particularly this week. But I admit, as soon as it was highlighted, you just knew he'd be up.

 

[catempire]

That is a ripper response from Chris Scott. He is second to none in dealing with the media.

 

[vinum coupe]

If it' some likes that you're after mate, I can tell you that that isn't the best way to go about it.

I gave him one. Thought it was funny.

 

[JackFlash]

Completely took the piss on Saturday night. Johnson needs discipline. He just seems aloof and disinterested too often. Easily put off his game, cement head.

He won't give a shit. He'll be deciding on the golf course he'll be playing on Saturday right now.

Geelong are challenging at the tribunal, it shouldn't last more than 2 minutes. Johnson will be playing on Saturday, if not then the whole MRP system has collapsed into a bottomless pit of incompetence. This is a real chance for the AFL to make a joke of the MRP, not the other way round.

 

[Teriyakicat]

I reckon he'll be found guilty. I think one of his 'knees' actually gets Thompson with some decent force, and considering the rib cage is pretty fragile it is a dangerous action (disregarding the outcome). Ribs can break pretty easily, you can't really have people going around doing what he did.

Players cop whacks in the ribs all game, SJ- they have plenty of muscle surrounding them to protect them from the loaded arm whacks and fist punches that happen all day. SJ's knee travelled maybe half a metre or less to make contact and I don't think the force of his body was behind it, so there was not a lot of chance of breaking or cracking a rib there. I'd be surprised if he even bruised Thompson.Thompson would've braced for the impact as well- thus protecting himself further.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

It's a foregone conclusion.

You can't front the tribunal with evidence like "if the umpire closest didn't pay a free kick it shouldn't be reportable". That leaves the tribunal with the option of either upholding a ban against a repeat offender (5 min deliberation time, now lets get dinner guys) or admit that a mistake was made, and they don't like doing that.

Previous cases have shown you need to come to the table with new evidence, you can't just claim a player shouldn't be banned because you personally don't believe they should be.

Kudos to Geelong for finally standing up to the treatment we receive from the MRP, but this was not the case to do so imo.

Well, hopefully they have a bit more than that. From their own contact with North people to present a solid argument for 'insufficient', by making a case that Thompson contributed to the incident to argue that it was accidental, or, hopefully, both.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Sam Mitchell elbows T Hunt in the throat. Reckless, high contact. Takes Taylor to the ground. Gets a free kick. Warning from umpires.

Let go.

I fail to see the difference overall between the 2. The system just simply does not work.

GO Catters

The MRP apparently didn't get given footage of this- it wasn't looked at, at all.

 

[Vdubs]

Players cop whacks in the ribs all game, SJ- they have plenty of muscle surrounding them to protect them from the loaded arm whacks and fist punches that happen all day. SJ's knee travelled maybe half a metre or less to make contact and I don't think the force of his body was behind it, so there was not a lot of chance of breaking or cracking a rib there. I'd be surprised if he even bruised Thompson.Thompson would've braced for the impact as well- thus protecting himself further.

With all respect, that is so NOT the point.
No player should ever be in a position lying on the ground to have to protect himself from a knee to the chest/abdomen.
Interestingly, they never look at bumps like the one by Duncan on Swallow in play that really did cause some rib bruising or whatever, looking at the scenes when he came off. That sort of bump can cause visceral (organ) damage and cracked ribs, but as it is NOT the head, it's all ok.?

 

[Teriyakicat]

The thing about all this stuff is that is mainly retaliatory. Even the 2 Richmond player brainfades, however 'cowardly' they may have been ,were retaliatory. We need to get more serious about all this 'off the ball' niggling and nip it at the bud- early. It is not good for the game.
I can imagine a lot of today's soft 'kiddie centric' parents watching all this stuff and sending their kids to play roundball games instead.
I watched a junior league game the other day, and watching young teenagers niggling each other and emulating what they see on the TV was disturbing. If it is nipped early then the chance of later brainfades is minimised, and we get back to playing the ball and enjoying the most skillful game on the planet.
added bonus: also shuts up apologist, so called, commentators like BT, luke Darcy, Dermott Brereton,Lee Matthews etc who excuse a lot of these incidents by calling it 'love' taps, 'Jumper punches' etc etc. )

Who was it that kept ripping into Hawkins' jumper and Tomahawk ended up with scratches all over his chest? Langford?? I can't recall. This sniping crap DOES indeed need to be nipped in the bud. We all know that it's whoever acts second always gets caught. I've taught my kids that- and taught them that violence is not an answer to anything because nobody cares what caused you flip your lid. They look at the action in isolation.
Well, unless it's the MRP, who could argue the leg off a chair and convince it that it was a table leg!