Preview AFL Round 23 - Geelong v Sydney, Simonds Stadium, 1:45PM Saturday 1 September

[candiehappy]

correct PO. They are rolling that injury/fitness dice with Varcoe, a proven finals performer. You wouldn't run that risk with two players.

for the ruck division, better the devil you know

Vardy will get his chance next year.

 

[candiehappy]

I wouldn't call West immoble either.

 

[supahoops]

That was my reason for maybe sticking with walker, as he provides a bit more pressure, particularly up forward. The good thing is our vfl side is still up and running so all will stay match fit. West has proven himself a bit of a workhorse so could even see him going alone at some point depending on the opposition. Think in the end it will be purely a week to week proposition. Given it's not at the scg this week but remember what happened when bundy came on for Simpson last time round.

 

[Jmac2225]

The only reason I can think of to go Vardy or Walker over Orren is they look more dangerous up forward and having a resting ruck forward allows more midfield Rotations through the bench. Rather than having Big O take up a space for significant portions of the game.

 

[Partridge]

Lets no forget after the last time we played the Swans, The MC was criticised for playing 2 genuine rucks as it was obvious the difference Bundy made when he came on as the sub. At least with West and Vardy they can both play ruck and forward where as if Big O has a flaw it is his inability to go forward. If Vardy is up to AFL standard after his long lay off is debatable but the only way to find out was to play him this week similar to Varcoe last week.

But the fact is our rucks in West and Simpson thrashed Sydney's that night, and West's dominance as the game wore on was also a big factor in us coming back into it. I don't disagree that Christensen shouldn't have been the sub, but that doesn't necessarily mean playing two ruckman was a bad idea. They are two different things.

 

[supahoops]

I disagree with that. To me two ruckmen is the only way to go. West can't go it alone against two good opposition ruckmen and you can't throw a part-timer in for support - as we found out the hard way against West Coast. If they play one ruckman to add another runner to me that just means the rest of the team aren't doing their job.

I hear what you're saying but remember we had half a dozen out and lost Hawkins early at west coast. Just think we might have to take a punt this finals series, be that west rucking solo with the odd chop out from Taylor and pods around the ground or going with walker, think his style is suited to finals more so than Vardy and Orren just at the minute. The extra run of playing another mid or walker could be crucial IMO, though I still think both those boys could come in and do a job, albeit a slightly different one.

Would not say that collingwood or hawthorn or north have two quality rucks, is all..

 

[Pure_Ownage]

correct PO. They are rolling that injury/fitness dice with Varcoe, a proven finals performer. You wouldn't run that risk with two players.

for the ruck division, better the devil you know

Vardy will get his chance next year.

The risk was more justifiable with Varcoe because he's a proven performer who is a clear upgrade within the 22.

Much as I rate Vards, his actual output to date doesn't justify that same tag and he's barely played for 12 months and doesn't have years of fitness behind him, and it's unlikely he's got the fitness required for an intense finals series.

It's all well and good to drop Walker because his output isn't great, but surely you do that for someone who is guaranteed to give you a better output e.g. Orren based on his last two games, or if you don't think 2 rucks works, the extra runner in Murdoch/Guthrie etc and tell West to ruck the lot.

To instead pick Vardy at the 11th hour just reeks of desperation to me.

I hope it works but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[candiehappy]

I'm hoping it doesn't happen

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I'm hoping it doesn't happen

Me too.

 

[Partridge]

I hear what you're saying but remember we had half a dozen out and lost Hawkins early at west coast. Just think we might have to take a punt this finals series, be that west rucking solo with the odd chop out from Taylor and pods around the ground or going with walker, think his style is suited to finals more so than Vardy and Orren just at the minute. The extra run of playing another mid or walker could be crucial IMO, though I still think both those boys could come in and do a job, albeit a slightly different one.

Would not say that collingwood or hawthorn or north have two quality rucks, is all..

True, but in recent times Geelong have certainly dominated Hawthorn in the ruck and we've gone ok against Collingwood too in that area. If they want to pick a fit ruckman to me it should be Stephenson ahead of Walker. Nothing against him but he's run out of puff, he'll be much better for it. I'd love to see Vardy come back and potentially he and West could form a devastating ruck duo (how many other ruck combinations are so comfortable in the forward line?), but given how much footy he's missed surely a good VFL series is more than enough at this stage.

It's a little like Smedts to me, the club obviously really rate Vardy's ability - which is great - but need to be mindful of whether he's physically capable right now.

 

[supahoops]

I just think it will be a week to week thing, and hopefully a few of them, with our rucks and team balance issues.

It's probably not a case of us just playing our best side knowing that will be enough, this time round I think we might spring a surprise or two. We've been hunted for so long, this time we can become the hunter. Go cats..

 

[Cataholic]

True, but in recent times Geelong have certainly dominated Hawthorn in the ruck and we've gone ok against Collingwood too in that area. If they want to pick a fit ruckman to me it should be Stephenson ahead of Walker. Nothing against him but he's run out of puff, he'll be much better for it. I'd love to see Vardy come back and potentially he and West could form a devastating ruck duo (how many other ruck combinations are so comfortable in the forward line?), but given how much footy he's missed surely a good VFL series is more than enough at this stage.

It's a little like Smedts to me, the club obviously really rate Vardy's ability - which is great - but need to be mindful of whether he's physically capable right now.

and thats why I don't understand where they're going with this. I bow to the clubs superior knowledge of Vardy's readiness, but from the outside looking in it just seems highly implausible that he can by anywhere near fit enough to contest and run out a game with finals intensity.

Maybe there's a lesson to be learned from the Varcoe experiment.

 

[BallerO]

and thats why I don't understand where they're going with this. I bow to the clubs superior knowledge of Vardy's readiness, but from the outside looking in it just seems highly implausible that he can by anywhere near fit enough to contest and run out a game with finals intensity.

Maybe there's a lesson to be learned from the Varcoe experiment.

I'm fairly sure any player put in Varcoe's position last match would have gotten the same injury.
Didn't they say it wasn't related to his previous injury?

 

[Cataholic]

I'm fairly sure any player put in Varcoe's position last match would have gotten the same injury.
Didn't they say it wasn't related to his previous injury?

True, and yes they did.

I guess it's the perception that it occurred because he was brought back in too quickly, when it's just been pure dumb luck.

EDIT: It just worries me that they're contemplating Vardy when he's had so little preparation, and is
returning after just one (?) game and a potentially career ending injury.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

The risk was more justifiable with Varcoe because he's a proven performer who is a clear upgrade within the 22.

Much as I rate Vards, his actual output to date doesn't justify that same tag and he's barely played for 12 months and doesn't have years of fitness behind him, and it's unlikely he's got the fitness required for an intense finals series.

It's all well and good to drop Walker because his output isn't great, but surely you do that for someone who is guaranteed to give you a better output e.g. Orren based on his last two games, or if you don't think 2 rucks works, the extra runner in Murdoch/Guthrie etc and tell West to ruck the lot.

To instead pick Vardy at the 11th hour just reeks of desperation to me.

I hope it works but I'm not holding my breath.

It all comes down to the fact that when we have partnered West with O and Simpson it has left us too slow across the ground and more often than not we have ended up substituting one of the rucks.

With Walker, we have looked superior around the ground as he is a more potent targert who makes more contests. Problem being is that the 15% he is playing in the ruck is not working.

The solution is Vardy....he may not be at full flight but he does offer us more flexibility. It maybe too soon for him, but we are going to have to gamble to get over the line this year. I say its worth the punt.

 

[SJ]

It all comes down to the fact that when we have partnered West with O and Simpson it has left us too slow across the ground and more often than not we have ended up substituting one of the rucks.

With Walker, we have looked superior around the ground as he is a more potent targert who makes more contests. Problem being is that the 15% he is playing in the ruck is not working.

The solution is Vardy....he may not be at full flight but he does offer us more flexibility. It maybe too soon for him, but we are going to have to gamble to get over the line this year. I say its worth the punt.

And in the other 85% of the match he gets about four touches.

 

[vinum coupe]

I've had a gut feeling all week that they'd bring back Vardy.
I'm not sure why they'd do it unless Walker is really feeling the pinch.

I agree Walker is doing stuff all. But it's a fair risk.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

It all comes down to the fact that when we have partnered West with O and Simpson it has left us too slow across the ground and more often than not we have ended up substituting one of the rucks.

With Walker, we have looked superior around the ground as he is a more potent targert who makes more contests. Problem being is that the 15% he is playing in the ruck is not working.

The solution is Vardy....he may not be at full flight but he does offer us more flexibility. It maybe too soon for him, but we are going to have to gamble to get over the line this year. I say its worth the punt.

I don't agree that Walker is working sans ruckwork. He's doing nothing in the forward line either (look at his stats for marks, possessions and goals). Certainly I think Vardy is our best or second ruckman but he only offers us both better flexibility and output if he is capable of contributing as BOTH a ruckman and a forward, and I'm not convinced that after the layoff and one game before the finals he has the fitness to give us that. Therefore we are therefore better off with an extra ruckman who bolsters the ruck, or an extra runner who can give us more as a forward or back. While neither of those are the ideal structure, they are still better options than rushing Vards in at round 23 IMO.

I agree with the bolded, and that is why I said it reeks of desperation. Hopefully it works though.

 

[SleazySimon]

Risk worth taking. They can always just give him less game timeif there's a problem. Need to take a few risks to improve and go far in the finals, and I think we can all agree our ruck stocks has been our biggest weakness this year after losing ottens.

 

[proboy]

Risk worth taking. They can always just give him less game timeif there's a problem. Need to take a few risks to improve and go far in the finals, and I think we can all agree our ruck stocks has been our biggest weakness this year after losing ottens.

I disagree is it worth taking?
Our best can match anyone and we have done it without him all year.
But i suppose in an hour and a bit we will know for sure if he is in

 

[vinum coupe]

Risk worth taking. They can always just give him less game timeif there's a problem. Need to take a few risks to improve and go far in the finals, and I think we can all agree our ruck stocks has been our biggest weakness this year after losing ottens.

It might be a risk worth taking for the team this season. But it's a massive risk for the player.

There was conjecture that not only was there a possibility that Vardy wouldn't play this year but that there was a possibility that he'd never play again.

What we've now got is a kid (with unknown upside to the current squad) who has made a stunning return. But he's played 3 VFL games sandwiched with a week off because they didn't want to overload him.

So, let's say he plays and gets through. How is that body going to stand up to a possible 5 games of high intensity footy?
If he breaks down we just sub him off and keep moving forward right?

I think there's more to it than that.


In fact, I'd play him in the VFL and if needed we use a wildcard and play him in the finals. Possibly as late as week 2.

 

[magic_johnson!]

Vardy for Walker, it'll happen. Whether it will work, only time will tell, however Vardy will be back.

 

[bulletproof]

I don't think Vardy is any more likely to get injured in the seniors.

If Stephenson is not fit I can see the case for playing him because he is a better ruck option than Walker.

If Stephenson is fit I think they would be silly to leave him out.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

The only reason to bring in Vardy in now is if Orren is not fit. Otherwise it's silly not to have Orren and West.. We did alright against Pies with this combo and I think Orren is the better Tap Ruckman. I don't expect us to go with both for however many games we play in the finals. But as a team by team basis.

 

[AlterRob]

Definitely wasn't expected Vardy to play seniors this year, but if he does play this weekend its gonna be great to see him out there.