Review AFL Round 7 autopsy - Adelaide defeats Geelong by 50 points

[sarah.13]

And any over the top stuff will be gone as soon as I see it

 

[InnocentBystandr]

Sorry folks, I think it's my fault!

I normally go to the Southern Cross Club to watch the Cats play, but today I went to Manuka to watch GWS win their first ever match. The Cats must have thought I had abandoned them!

Sorry Cats - I will never forsake you!

 

[sauron256]

Our best team:
B: Scarlett - Lonergan - Hunt
HB: Enright - Taylor - Mackie
C: Corey - Bartel - Kelly
HF: Duncan - Hawkins - Chapman
F: Johnson - Podsiadly - Varcoe
R: West - Selwood - Christensen
Int:
Vardy
T. Hunt
Wojcinski
Motlop

If that 22 is fit and healthy come finals we are a huge threat.

Not enough Menzel in that team.

 

[sauron256]

Chris Scott's presser now online: http://www.afl.com.au/Video/tabid/76/contentid/448926/cats+post-match/Default.aspx

EDIT: cutting out at 18s mark. Looks like it might need fixing.

 

[volcboy]

My biggest question is; why can't we seem to handle the loose man in defense? Harvey cut us up when we played NM, and today Reilly seemed to be cutting off every forward move - even when we were 10 goals down, our inside 50's were almost the same as Adelaide's.

I would've thought that going man-on-man (i.e. sending Mackie forward) would have been an option, but there was no coaching move at all. Is it bad coaching or just bad play?

 

[Last Line Hero]

Not enough Menzel in that team.

The only reason I didn't add Menzel is because of his injury. I didn't think he'd play this year. If he is available and with enough fitness under his belt come finals then you can throw him in there in place of Wojak or Motlop, which only makes that best 22 look better.

 

[Catman]

PS. I recognise that it's understandable to lose games with the side we are fielding. But I don't think the level of effort today was in any way acceptable. And it's just starting to hit me that this could be the beginning of the end for a great team. Up until now, even at the start of 2011, I had faith that we could still do it. Now I'm having serious doubts.

That's how I feel too. I can accept a loss a little easier if I notice the effort was there. Today it wasn't, and to be honest it hasn't been for most of the season.

I think it's time to decide just where we are going this year, what are we aiming to achieve. Playing for the future? Or one last flag crack?

 

[ATSAM]

My remaining hope is that Scott has several cards up his sleeve in terms of gameplan.

Me too and this is my worry. good to play kids and we know why that must happen but also good to put the best team on the ground every game. Not sure that we did that today. Byrnes is struggling, remember that he played perhaps only one game last year so that put him well behind and reading the comments seems as if we also didn't have the best matchups or positioning of players during the game.
Hawkins must be left in the forward line, Must. Johnson mid to forward and we desperately need a second ruckman no control over injuries of course but will Dawson Simpson come up?
Scarlett and Bartel are critical. What was Selwoods game like- I didn't hear him mentioned in the wrap up on K-Rock.
And finally, Scott seems to have been outcoached again today just like he was against North.
And Sanderson is a very good coach probably the brains behind our success 2007-12

 

[Last Line Hero]

My biggest question is; why can't we seem to handle the loose man in defense? Harvey cut us up when we played NM, and today Reilly seemed to be cutting off every forward move - even when we were 10 goals down, our inside 50's were almost the same as Adelaide's.

I would've thought that going man-on-man (i.e. sending Mackie forward) would have been an option, but there was no coaching move at all. Is it bad coaching or just bad play?

The ripple effect of Scarlett not playing. Does't just effect the backline.

Teams are far more willing to sacrifice a forward line player as the spare man in defence when Scarlett isn't playing, because they know there is no risk of Scarlett freeing himself up up the other end as our spare man, or being able to manipulate the match-up's so as Mackie or Enright may be spare man. In that case teams run the risk of Scarlo having a profound influence.

With Scarlett not there, teams have the confidence to beat our defenders 5 on 6 so as to have a 7-6 advantage in their defence, which for most forward lines causes problems. You add to that the pressure the Crows applied through the middle which effected quality of delivery and it becomes very tough for us and very easy for a spare man reading the play. Scarlett plays, Crows play 6 forwards and we don't give them that ascendency. Same happened against North.

 

[allrighty]

I was thinking this week about where we are at after Lingy, Otto, Moons and Dasher retiring. Hard to cop for the boys and the team as a whole, then I realised they will also be coping with new coaches after McCartney and Sando also moved on after many years with this crop of players. And I reckon all of this must be hitting home now. Big changes on and off the field, a younger side in transition, injuries and suspensions, older legs and minds, and a later start than other teams due to our disadvantage at having won the GF. All are playing on this team at the moment and how we cope over the next is really anyone's guess at this stage. If the ride is over for this year so be it, if not bring it on. Did not see or hear the game today but it is a challenging time for the club I reckon.

 

[romeoh]

Yep hard to tell but signs aren't great. We might just need to get some games into the young ones and get some half a dozen back-all of whom make a difference. But we may have lost too many games by then to get into a good spot to make a serious run at the finals. If the oldies are feeling weary, so be it. They have played at the highest level for a long time now and I would not begrudge them if they have had enough for the moment. Still, always good to respect a champion team. You never know.

 

[cats23]

Sorry folks, I think it's my fault!

I normally go to the Southern Cross Club to watch the Cats play, but today I went to Manuka to watch GWS win their first ever match. The Cats must have thought I had abandoned them!

Sorry Cats - I will never forsake you!

I was thinking it was my fault too;

I've just returned to my hotel in Bali after watching the game at a sportsbar. I was the only Cats fan there, surrounded by lots of Crows fans who seemed to delight in my pain (not much fun at all)

Anyway, I was in Bali also in 2007 and watched us lose to the Lions, and again in 2009 and watched us lose to the Saints (both those years ended up ok though )

Sorry Cats, I'll never watch you play from that bar again!

Ps:you must have had a great time watching GWS first win, I would have loved to be there

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

That's how I feel too. I can accept a loss a little easier if I notice the effort was there. Today it wasn't, and to be honest it hasn't been for most of the season.

I think it's time to decide just where we are going this year, what are we aiming to achieve. Playing for the future? Or one last flag crack?

^^ This... We look disinterested like we are rebuilding but Chris Scott talks like we are going for the flag...But we are at least 8 goals behind a top 4 prospect in Adelaide...

We have been talking a lot about our outs like Wojo, Menzel Varcoe etc.. The thing is they may not be in form for possible the whole 2012 as they have missed so much and need to regain match fitness and touch...Even our senior guys didn't get form back that quick...

Midfield is struggling way too much and games like today will remind us what no Scarlett will look like for us...

 

[OldStyle2007]

It's not the same team, sure.

But this is a random year.

We are building experience and if we can get lucky with form and injuries we will still be in the mix for the flag

Throw Varcoe, Wojo, Menzel, Scarlett and Bartel in that side today - it's a big difference not just because of the inclusions but the exclusions of either kids without enough experience or VFL standard players

And I really think Vardy missing this season has been massive loss for us

 

[Gavin Excell]

It's not the same team, sure.

But this is a random year.

We are building experience and if we can get lucky with form and injuries we will still be in the mix for the flag

Throw Varcoe, Wojo, Menzel, Scarlett and Bartel in that side today - it's a big difference not just because of the inclusions but the exclusions of either kids without enough experience or VFL standard players

And I really think Vardy missing this season has been massive loss for us

I don't think we can win it

I'd like to see the club playing as many kids as it can but to manage retirements with dignity

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Loving everyone's optimism, no threat for the flag this year unfortunately and not based on just today, based on the season as a whole to date.

Champion team full of stars with huge pride and hearts, I think they're just spent after 5 long, tough seasons.

Remember Brisbane dropped in the arse quick and with the exception of only 2 or probably 3 players their stars were only mid to late 20s to 30 or there abouts. That extra month post season for a number of years and the late start to their preseasons just wore them down. Not to mention how physically both teams played.

At least Geelong has some talented youth on the rise. Be thankful that unlike a Melbourne we have those experience champions / role models to help the youngsters along.

The bulk of the premiership teams, particularly the backline knew each others games so well they just had that innate ability to know what each other was doing and where to put the ball. It has to affect the cohesion having so many new to newish faces in the lineup.

1 to 3 or 4 years, take out Scarlett, Chapman, Stevie, Jimmy, Mackie, Pods, Enright, Corey, Kelly, Tom Lonergan, Josh Hunt, Wojo combine with losing Ablett, Ottens, Ling, Milburn, Mooney.

Can people name me the obvious replacements that we currently have for those players? A lot of them haven't even been recruited yet. The Cats won't bottom out by a long shot, but it's going to be tough. You can't just replace so much quality and not expect to drop down.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

My remaining hope is that Scott has several cards up his sleeve in terms of gameplan.

Me too and this is my worry. good to play kids and we know why that must happen but also good to put the best team on the ground every game. Not sure that we did that today. Byrnes is struggling, remember that he played perhaps only one game last year so that put him well behind and reading the comments seems as if we also didn't have the best matchups or positioning of players during the game.
Hawkins must be left in the forward line, Must. Johnson mid to forward and we desperately need a second ruckman no control over injuries of course but will Dawson Simpson come up?
Scarlett and Bartel are critical. What was Selwoods game like- I didn't hear him mentioned in the wrap up on K-Rock.
And finally, Scott seems to have been outcoached again today just like he was against North.
And Sanderson is a very good coach probably the brains behind our success 2007-12

Jeez thats a CHEAP SHOT against Chris Scott -he is the premiership coach and has done an outstanding job

If you want reality MATE-weve got far too many players out injured and suspended plus teams like West Coast Richmond Carlton Esendon-who to put it bluntly have been woefull for years have actually improved .

When the Crows are firing Football Park can be a bit of a graveyard -it was for us in the early 90s when we had strong teams -ask Essendon and Hawthorn about their record over there -even when they had powerfull teams

In summary -its not the end of the world -better to cop a hiding like that and be exposed than say a 4 goal loss .Everyones on notice -a few egos might be pricked -but it might be a turning or rebounding point

 

[Catman]

congrats man on currently being no.1 in the tipping

Not for much longer!

I still think we need to give the boys another month and then we can judge them properly because they have really been all over the place.

We can see how some teams who were flying early have now hit a brick wall, we are still 3-3 same as Hawthorn.
I think we just need to get some important players back like Varcoe, Menzel, Wojak and preferably Simpson or Orren and we will start to see us play like we did in September.

Just gotta continue scarping wins here and there....can still go 7-3 by the halfway mark of the year which would put us right at the top but yeh, can't lose another game for a while now.

I'd like to see Orren play. What happened to playing two ruckmen? And what happened to the end of the Hawkins in the ruck experiment? West can't go on like this all season.

Huge game on so many levels next week.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Jeez thats a CHEAP SHOT against Chris Scott -he is the premiership coach and has done an outstanding job

If you want reality MATE-weve got far too many players out injured and suspended plus teams like West Coast Richmond Carlton Esendon-who to put it bluntly have been woefull for years have actually improved .

When the Crows are firing Football Park can be a bit of a graveyard -it was for us in the early 90s when we had strong teams -ask Essendon and Hawthorn about their record over there -even when they had powerfull teams

In summary -its not the end of the world -better to cop a hiding like that and be exposed than say a 4 goal loss .Everyones on notice -a few egos might be pricked -but it might be a turning or rebounding point

How are West Coast and Essendon's injury lists looking? A lot worse than Geelong's I'd bet.

 

[g-thing]

Re: I don't mean to be rude but I've been there before.

And could have won more. That North fan wasn't being a troll.

What frustrated me was the basic errors and stupid decisions...so many. Byrnes..jesus christ he needs a long time in the twos to find confidence and form. Also the lack of pace out there today was alarming to say the least. Scott's press conference was good, he took it all and gave decent answers.

A very dirty day. Bring on the barrage of Henny Pennys.

Christ- the team plays like shite and you focus on Byrnes who rotated for a quarter! Ostrich or what!!!!! We were down 10 goals when he came on! Brain switch - try turning it on mate!!!!

 

[The Rusty Clam]

I was at work today and couldn't watch the game. I'm glad I missed it, I think I might delete the replay. Scott's not going to have the luxury of resting players with even the slightest niggle anymore. Hopefully the Pies go in cocky next week and we can play with a bit of spirit again!

 

[Nankervis brothers]

Before the the 2011 season the club were basically having a bet each way - they were still considering themeselves a flag contender, while also looking to transition with a youth policy. It was a bit like attempting a mini-rebuild while making a flag tilt. It worked a treat. They won a flag, getting the most from their senior list while developing some suprisingly good young talent.

This year their stated direction has encompassed the same 'bob each way' idea, but I'm not convinced it is realistic. I think the major difference from last year is that the senior players are looking a year older, and have dropped a notch. It hasn't helped that gun youngsters like Menzel and Vardy, along with mid career players like Varcoe, are sidelined.

I'm not writing 2012 off yet, or their aims. But what I am saying is that if they drop another couple of games in this fashion over the next month, then perhaps it is time to re-orientate our aims and objectives, and amp up the 'transition' side of things.

Or to put it another way - if we are looking at a dog fight for a bottom 8 position by mid season, then I would rather bin the flag aspirations for now and focus on the flag aspirations of 2016. Better that than working hard to play pointless elimanation finals, as ESS did for a couple of years while their era (albeit far less successful) wound down.

Regardless of the 2012 outcome, this era has been incredible.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Just posted this on the main board, but will repeat it here. Some people getting really worked up here without looking at the big picture.


While a lot will dismiss the following as "Geelong propoganda"... my feeling is that Geelong have been hurt by injuries to a specific type of player all year. They have missed Varcoe and Wojinski all year, as well as Menzel (covered far more easily i will add) and injuries to Vardy and Simpson. Now what that has meant is that our 2 genuine pace players havent played. Because of that, the whole structure has been re jigged to a degree with former inside players having to play outside and from there it flows. On top of that, Geelong have had injuries to a lot of key players throughout the first 7 weeks.

As far as the ruck, Geelong had intended Simpson to be number one ruck - effectively replacing Ottens, all along. When he got injured late last year, Stephenson was drafted as insurance. He simply hasnt come up and isnt up to it. what that has meant is that Trent West has carried the rucks. He is amazing as a second mobile ruckman, but he isnt a 1st ruckman who is a brute, pack crashing, "Ottens style" ruckman. For all the Cats supporters frothing over West, he is a big part of Geelong losing contested ball.

In summation.

1. Ottens retiring has hurt. Simpson is back in the next couple of weeks and in 4 to 6 will be playing in the 1's as the first ruckman. Geelong will improve markedly at that point, having a 206 cm, 110kg ruckman, whic in turn allows West to play number 2 which in turn allows Hawkins to play purely forward (he has pinched in the ruck the last few weeks)

2. at the same time, Varcoe and Wojo will add pace to Geelong, allowing Kelly Christensen et el to play more of a "2011" role. This will help their contested ball enormously.

Write the Cats off at your own peril. No one goes through a season with no injuries, but some specific injuries are easier to cover than others. cats will get players back and start putting form together. Will make the 8, then go from there.

 

[Gogeelong]

Because we are so passionate we say things against the players or the coaching team believing in some way we would be able to improve their performance. Perhaps it works a little. Any comments made are from people who have a real love for the club

Geelong said from the start of the season that it was looking at long range plans. As such they have given a heap of game time to newish players.
As has been said already we had 8 players with less than 50 games today.
It is inevitable that we refresh the side or we will slide just as quickly as Brisbane did after their golden era.

Our A grade players are reducing every year and their mature bodies are being missed. The ones remaining even though they have the fire in the belly are slowing down due to their age.

The question is "How good are our Youngsters"? Only time will tell.
We have some good players but so do the other sides, and this is the point. Adelaide of today had many youngsters I would love to swap. However we must rely on the culture and the structure of the club to bring them through.

Difficult when you see two of our trusted ex players leading the charge against us. Our intellectual property out the door.

What we need is another "Ottens, Sellwood and Scarlett" in the side. The club has flagged that they wil be much more active in the draft this year. We are lacking in the 23-26 year age bracket as a result of our great run.

We also need a good run of injuries like all clubs. When you play the older guys they will get soft tissue injuries more often. The younger players bodies are not ready and they get crunched more often.

We know the club will be challenged like never before and the future is less certain. Our passionate support will continue.

 

[Last Line Hero]

Before the the 2011 season the club were basically having a bet each way - they were still considering themeselves a flag contender, while also looking to transition with a youth policy. It was a bit like attempting a mini-rebuild while making a flag tilt. It worked a treat. They won a flag, getting the most from their senior list while developing some suprisingly good young talent.

This year their stated direction has encompassed the same 'bob each way' idea, but I'm not convinced it is realistic. I think the major difference from last year is that the senior players are looking a year older, and have dropped a notch. It hasn't helped that gun youngsters like Menzel and Vardy, along with mid career players like Varcoe, are sidelined.

I'm not writing 2012 off yet, or their aims. But what I am saying is that if they drop another couple of games in this fashion over the next month, then perhaps it is time to re-orientate our aims and objectives, and amp up the 'transition' side of things.

Or to put it another way - if we are looking at a dog fight for a bottom 8 position by mid season, then I would rather bin the flag aspirations for now and focus on the flag aspirations of 2016.

Regardless of the 2012 outcome, this era has been incredible.

3 of our next 5 are against top 4 contenders, that to me will tell a big story, given the injuries and the unsettled nature of the current side. Players are going to have to dig really dip to improve current levels of effort.

We come away with wins in all 3 and hit the midway mark at 9-3 with senior players gradually working their way back into the senior line-up as the year progresses, that will be priceless considering we have Collingwood, Essendon, Adelaide, Hawthorn, West Coast, St. Kilda and Sydney in 7 of our last 8 games. Lose all 3 and stand 6-6 then Cats fans may start to consider the possibility of being out of contention.