AFL seeks compensation for World Cup disruption

[Pessimistic]

I'm sure the government would not be so keen to acquire the world cup if it didn't present any benefit to Australia.

ALP PM Keating and the then NSW Lib premier landed the olympics. They can simply shrug their shoulders at the poor state of NSW finances today (nless you want to play the political balme game - but is it ALP or lib to blame ?)

Guys such as Coates are firmly attched to the IOC tit so of course they will always have the opinion we should spend spend spemd.

 

[DaVe86]

ALP PM Keating and the then NSW Lib premier landed the olympics. They can simply shrug their shoulders at the poor state of NSW finances today (nless you want to play the political balme game - but is it ALP or lib to blame ?)

Guys such as Coates are firmly attched to the IOC tit so of course they will always have the opinion we should spend spend spemd.

again but, none of us know the economics behind it. This debate is not about whether we should host the Cup or not. This is a question for the government.

This debate is about whether the AFL should stand aside and let the World Cup take place without protest.

 

[invinciBlues]

Ok, lets take your viewpoint. I too am an AFL tragic who doesn't like soccer. Let's pretend the right thing to do is say "Screw soccer, we are an AFL country". What is that going to do to the AFL's image?

Liken us to the mythical "Aussie Battler", standing up for his rights! Like that guy in The Castle! We love a good "underdog" tale.

I will regale the story to my grandkids about how Australian Football stood up to the evil "Don't call it soccer" crowd, looked their tyrannical dictator 'FIFA' in the eye and said "Here are the terms for the privilege of playing your silly little game on our soil...."

All we need is good PR. Idea!! We should rename the AFL the "Braveheart Football League".

 

[mickctiger]

the FIFA is saying that there is to be no competition from other sports, for an extended period before, during and after the WC
seemingly to the detriment of all the other domestic sports

FIFA can say that because there are heaps of other countries who would want to host

let the other countries bid for it then [/quote]. It is us bidding for the games...not FIFA requesting we host it. They set the rules. If you don't like it you don't bid[/quote] who says we have to bid anyway

a minimum of 12 weeks without the domestic comps being able
to play, during the middle of their seasons is a hell of lot to ask

The soccer goes for 4 weeks doesn't it?? It needs 4 weeks prior as well for no one to play on the grounds...then a week after to pack up. Should be 10 weeks

it will end up being twelve weeks

yet the FIFA arrogantly argues that we should all pack up shop for most of our season

2-3 months of a 12 month year, we will have to be flexible and either shorten the season or split it in 2.

the result of which is a massive loss for both the AFL and the NRL

at least and you can be sure they will. One would imagine that both the AFL and NRL have water tight contractural arrangements with their venues

The AFL will get some form of compensation you would think.

you would think ? I reckon a hell of a lot, if the Government really want this wank fest

and at the end of the day, how much revenue did the olympics generate? from what I have been led to belive, the NSW government is still paying the Olympics off. The WC will be the same. We will be paying for it for years afterward, all so we can indulge the FFA and a handful of politicians

We would not be bidding if we thought we were going to make a loss.

the GP bleeds money, it doesnt stop the Government chipping in tax payer funds on a yearly basis to stop it being "poached"

12 weeks equates to a lot of lost revenue

If the season is split in 2, the same amount of games are played, so theoretically same revenue...plus compensation as well

and how would you split it, considering you would now eat into the cricket season ?

it will end up being effectively 6 months and will ultimately kill of the season for that year

Yes it will be a disrupted year, but it wont be 6 months and it won't kill the year. And to think I got call a doomsdayer

do the maths. take into account the four weeks prior to the WC where no other sport can be played, the four weeks during the WC, the lead time to set up the venues, and the time to pack up after wards. not to mention being constricted on the grounds, such as princes park or kardinia Park, that the AFL could use alll because we have to give a cameroon or something a "training ground" and you call this a minor disruption ?

 

[BobbyMorri]

Wow, Southern Hemisphere. Thats the Hemisphere now one really cares about, cause none of the world powers are in it.

And you cant compare sport leagues just based on attendances. They are a lot of factors that determine an attendance in a sport, not just its interest in the sport. For example, by using country size, AFL is popular in 1/2 a country with a GDP of $800 Billion. Brazil has a GDP of $1921 Billion. That means the is more money in Brazil, and, so more likely, it is the bigger league.

A coulpe of pages back, someone said that the AFL were happy to give way to the commonwealth games because they got a bigger MCG. Im sure the AFL will be more than happy(and some of the clubs as well), with some of the positive side-effects of the World Cup. Potential new Stadiums, and investment into these training bases.

From the Official Website of the 2018-22 bid.

Training grounds should be around 15-20 minutes from Team Base Camps, have a small grandstand and somewhere to accommodate a public training session and the working media that may follow a team. Make your suggestion here, the best 20 will win 'ComePlay!' caps!

I dont know what defines a training base, what rules or regulations are needed, but you would reckon it would be similar to what AFL clubs use, and maybe some of the local leagues(etc VFL). But there has to be 32 of these bases potentially. There might be more "Whitten oval" type improvements to the clubs by governments. The clubs might be able to rent these out for additional cash flow, for example. Im not saying the AFL dont need other types of cash hand outs compo, but the world cup is not all negative news for the AFL/NRL.

And 8 weeks is enough in most cases. Most teams go home 2 weeks into the competition, and some smaller stadiums would become available after that 2nd week. Before the world cup starts(2-3 weeks before), teams will start playing in Friendlies, but they wont be just confined to Australia. And by 2022, im sure the clean out process could only take a week after the world cup, and that would only effect the 2 big stadiums hosting the last 2 games.

 

[mantis]

Find it amusing that soccer supporters are calling people rednecks, then using outdated and stupid generalisations like "eating meat pies".

BINGO.

 

[mantis]

This aint the world badminton tournament. .

May as well be, because they are both boring games to watch & I played badminton, but it is boring as bat shit to watch.

 

[mickctiger]

Wow, Southern Hemisphere. Thats the Hemisphere now one really cares about, cause none of the world powers are in it.

And you cant compare sport leagues just based on attendances.

why not, thats where they generate a fair amount of revernue, not to mention TV. can you remember you last saw a domestic brazillian soccer match on TV

They are a lot of factors that determine an attendance in a sport, not just its interest in the sport

such as ?

. For example, by using country size, AFL is popular in 1/2 a country with a GDP of $800 Billion. Brazil has a GDP of $1921 Billion. That means the is more money in Brazil, and, so more likely, it is the bigger league.

but its not.The Brazzilian Soccer league, what ever its called, dosent even rate a mention in the figures that I have provided a link to. On a per capita basis it doesnt even come close

A coulpe of pages back, someone said that the AFL were happy to give way to the commonwealth games because they got a bigger MCG. Im sure the AFL will be more than happy(and some of the clubs as well), with some of the positive side-effects of the World Cup. Potential new Stadiums, and investment into these training bases.

not to happy with a three month minimum disruption to their season though

From the Official Website of the 2018-22 bid.
I dont know what defines a training base,

umm, that would be the ground where the clubs train, such as punt road oval [/quote] what rules or regulations are needed, but you would reckon it would be similar to what AFL clubs use[/quote] and thats the point, they even want our training grounds. Seemingly not content with tacking over the major venues

and maybe some of the local leagues(etc VFL). But there has to be 32 of these bases potentially.

so ?

There might be more "Whitten oval" type improvements to the clubs by governments. The clubs might be able to rent these out for additional cash flow, for example. Im not saying the AFL dont need other types of cash hand outs compo, but the world cup is not all negative news for the AFL/NRL.

no? what else do you call sacrificing the quality of your season to indulge the whims of the FFA and some politicians?

And 8 weeks is enough in most cases.

12 weeks, but why let fact get in the way of feel good fantasy?

Most teams go home 2 weeks into the competition, and some smaller stadiums would become available during that 2nd week. Before the world cup starts(2-3 weeks before),

FIFA DEMAND no other sport for at least 4 weeks before the WC [/quote] that there is teams will start playing in Friendlies, but they wont be just confined to Australia[/quote] so ?.

And by 2022, im sure the clean out process could only take a week after the world cup, and that would only effect the 2 big stadiums hosting the last 2 games.

do you read the news, this will stop the domestic comps for at least 10 -12 weeks.all for something that tax-payers will continue to pay for many years after the event

 

[snrub]

As an example, Essendon have about 35,000 season ticket members. If Docklands and the MCG were unavailable for 8 weeks and Essendon were to have 4 home games at a smaller venue, they would have to cap their membership at 20,000.
Would the 15,000 regular Essendon members who were turned away that year automatically return the following year? And if Essendon happened to make the grand final that year, the people who were denied memberships would also miss out on any chance of grand final tickets - that's a lot of disgruntled people who may not return.

I don't think so. Essendon would still sell their 35,000 memberships with the rider of 4 games possibly in Geelong being fully ticketed. So first 25,000 to reserve seats get in for those games.

 

[Professor Knowall]

... A coulpe of pages back, someone said that the AFL were happy to give way to the commonwealth games because they got a bigger MCG. Im sure the AFL will be more than happy(and some of the clubs as well), with some of the positive side-effects of the World Cup. ...

In what way did the AFL "give way to the commonwealth games"? The commonwealth games were held in summer, and the AFL didn't shut down and played their normal 22 round H&A season at the normal major venues, including the MCG.

Whereas FIFA is demanding an 8-12 week total shutdown in the middle of our normal season.

One thing seems to have been hardly mentioned (at least here) - the AFL presently keep over 6,000 people employed over the season - and increasing each year - and moreso with the expansion to 18 teams, so this could result in up to 10,000 thrown on the unemployment scrapheap over those 8-12 weeks. Not so sure these newly unemployed will see the WC (run by possibly the most corrupt organisation on the plant) as such a great benefit for them.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

In what way did the AFL "give way to the commonwealth games"? The commonwealth games were held in summer, and the AFL didn't shut down and played their normal 22 round H&A season at the normal major venues, including the MCG. .

The MCG was unavailable for the first three weeks of the season. Hardly comparable in any way to a Soccer World Cup.

FYI Comm Games sports such as Rugby Sevens were held at the Dome even though AFL footy was also played there on the weekends.

 

[cos789]

AFL is a good sport but will never be anything outside the southern states of Australia that is the reality get it through your thick scull!

So the premierships of Brisbane and Sydney mean nothing ?

Look if you want the WC wouldn't make sense to try and co-operate rather than put people offside by making such dumb staements .

.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

So the premierships of Brisbane and Sydney mean nothing ?

They dont mean a lot.... the rugby codes are still the dominant sports in those states and always will be.

The southern states drive the game - they drive the TV revenue, they generate the biggest crowds, and they have the most followers. Thats just the way it is.

Melbourne Storm have won three premierships in its short history - but it means ABSOLUTELY nothing in terms of making any material headway in the market. Its a niche and always will be.

 

[cos789]

They dont mean a lot.... the rugby codes are still the dominant sports in those states and always will be.

The southern states drive the game - they drive the TV revenue, they generate the biggest crowds, and they have the most followers. Thats just the way it is.

Melbourne Storm have won three premierships in its short history - but it means ABSOLUTELY nothing in terms of making any material headway in the market. Its a niche and always will be.

So by your reasoning soccer isn't even on the radar in Australia .

.

 

[bzparkes]

I thought i'd heard it all before, but it gets better ladies and gentlemen IT GETS BETTER. The toothless tiger drunk has delivered the greatest moment in the history of bigfooty!!!

Can't speak for Brazil but in Peru, Chile, Bolivia, Argentina and Uruguay, the local leagues actually aren't particularly popular. When I was in Chile they had the local league Final between the two biggest teams and you wouldn't have even known it was on. I only found out about it because 1 bus full of supporters went past on a bus, waving flags. Later I asked the locals what was happening and they told me it was the final. Found out afterwards that the stadium wasn't even full because noone cares about the local league.

Same in Argentina. Local league isn't particularly popular unless Boca Juniors or La Plata are playing, as noone cares about the other teams.

Now soccer is by far the most popular sport in these countries, noone disputes that, but that's due to their international sides playing, not their local ones. Probably also to do with the fact that there are basically no other team sports to play anyway. But the people simply don't care very much about their local leagues and, as such, don't have a massive following.

 

[Ron The Bear]

i'm just open to other forms of sport and entertainment...get it through your thick scull!

Rowing included.

Melbourne's already officially the sporting capital of the world, without the WC. Perhaps our sporting calendar is simply too full to accommodate its excessive demands.

 

[Premiers04]

I dont care how big and important the world cup is, its a wimps sport full of diving actors.

Aussie rules >>>>>>>> a wet fart >>>>>>>>>>>wog ball

 

[qldbluesman_43]

The amount it costs to upgrade a stadium or 2 would cover the cost nicely and make up for the short-term loss by giving us long term much better stadiums.

 

[mickctiger]

yet with a larger population base, they still cannot draw the same crowds as a proportion.

not quite sure what your referreing to here (am assuming you bolded your comments) but on a per-captita basis Australian Football is one of the biggest spectator sport in the world

Might have something to do with the stadiums not being able to fit as many people!

umm you really sure about that. There are a lot of grounds that fit much more than 30,000 in england. I'm sure Man U's ground would fit closer to 50 K than less.Not all AFL stadia are the MCG either, I dont think that Adelaide Oval could fit much more than 35 K for instance. So that shoots your "oh but the soccer grounds are much smaller.." argument dow

My sport??? I follow AFL buddy and passionately, moreso than soccer,

sure, that's why you arrogantly dismiss the AFL as a "minnow" of an organisation, despite the data, despite that the AFL is the southern hemispheres largest sporting organisation (go on do the figures, you know the revenue it generates etc.of)
or your disparaging slur, refering to the sportsmen who play Austrlian Football as "entertainers" rather than the world class athelites that they are. Considering the prima donners and actors that play soccer (diving, Thiery Henry).

i'm just open to other forms of sport and entertainment and not an insular redneck bogan like yourself who wouldn't know a good opportunity for the betterment of the country if it hit you in the face.

you don't know me, so how dare you refer to me as an insular and redneck bogan. I'm open to all sports also, I also dont mind watching the odd soccer match. I just fail to see the benefit of the World Cup, when A- its going to cost us, for years before and after the event.
and B - we have to bow to the whims of FIFA and seriously disrupt our domestic competitions (AFL,NRL and the Super 15) to the detriment of the local competitions
if it is so important, why not hold the tournament during the soccer seaqson

Soccer is the world game,

good for them, FOX FM is Melbournes Radio station, does that mean they play better music then RRR ?

AFL isr a good sport

on this place most will tell you its the best sport [/quote]

but will never be anything outside the southern states of Australia

never say never, whos to say how GC will go and you just cannot be sure what the future holds in Western Sydney

 

[BobbyMorri]

why not, thats where they generate a fair amount of revernue, not to mention TV. can you remember you last saw a domestic brazillian soccer match on TV

And in Brazil, is the AFL Grand Final even broadcast. And i have watched Brazil clubs in continental and world competitions, and i reckon that one game from Brazil has featured on SBS the last year. But its not relevant for this discussion. It would be if we were hosting the southern hemisphere football championship, but we are hosting the WORLD championship, and so includes northern hemisphere, which makes the AFL(and the brazilian league also) puny, compared to the likes of European soccer and American sport.

such as

Level one Economics. Supply and demand. For example Total Demand of a product, an increase the price of the product, reduces the amount of quantity demanded for the product. There are many others which could effect attendance figures, not just price.

but its not.The Brazzilian Soccer league, what ever its called, dosent even rate a mention in the figures that I have provided a link to. On a per capita basis it doesnt even come close

But it does in total attendance figures. The figure say the 7 million attendeded AFL. 6.4 Mil for Top Brazilian league, BUT another 2.6 mil watched the lower division. And you must remember in soccer, not all the big teams are in the bigger division. It not as centralized in its support of a code as Aussie Rules is.

not to happy with a three month minimum disruption to their season though

Dont blame them.

umm, that would be the ground where the clubs train, such as punt road oval and thats the point, they even want our training grounds. Seemingly not content with tacking over the major venues so ? no? what else do you call sacrificing the quality of your season to indulge the whims of the FFA and some politicians?

I meant if there are any conditions for a training base, like what is on the stadiums. I would imagine that the national federations hire out a ground to use it, with the help of the FFA, so maybe it on them(the federations) to put any conditions they want on the contract they sign.But this is a guess, got no idea.

12 weeks, but why let fact get in the way of feel good fantasy? FIFA DEMAND no other sport for at least 4 weeks before the WC that there is teams will start playing in Friendlies, but they wont be just confined to Australia so ?. do you read the news, this will stop the domestic comps for at least 10 -12 weeks.all for something that tax-payers will continue to pay for many years after the event

I read it. yet again, where has FIFA said that the AFL round is a Major event.
2. It goes for a month. Not 5 weeks. And like i said before, half those teams leave after 2.
3-its says the KEY Venues are unavailable for a week afterwords. Not every stadium will be affected for 9 weeks.
4. 2 words...BEAT and UP. Talking about worst case scenarios. Thats there jobs though, but i be surprised if they shut down for 10 weeks.
and 5, a lot happens in 12 years. No one can predict the future.

AS for the commonwealth games, it shows that the AFL are happy to accept some form of compo by stadiums upgrades/new stadiums.

 

[mickctiger]

yet despite the popularity of soccer in Brazil, the body that controlls the game there is not as big as the body that controls the game here(again have a look at figures, ie how much $$$ it makes) in fact it would be smaller than the Rugby bodies in the southern hemisphere. And thats the point, you just cant go into a country with your event and expect all the other sports to take a substantial economic hit while they "freeze" their comps for you. Especially when one of the organisations that runs one of those sports you expect to halt, is the largest sporting body in the Southern Hemisphere. Certainly its bigger than all but a handful of the sporting organisations that you are the representitive panel for.
its called professional respect, I would have thunk

 

[yodellinhank]

yer because Australia is the biggest and richest country in the Souther Hemisphere.

My point is that AFL is played in 1 country. Soccer in every country.

And I have studied statistical analysis, as well as law, commerce and IT.

None of that matters. Common sense is all that matters. Common sense says that the World Cup would be a brilliant and prosperous event for Australia to hold and that the AFL should not stand its it way for a one off event, especially when we can still host our season...just have to make some sacrifices.

Don't think Soccer has really caught on in China yet. And i never hear about how the Indian team is going in WC qualification. 2 and a half billion people who don't give a sh!t.

Of course the AFL will make space for a soccer world cup. But there would have to be some clauses in stadium deals to give us concessions over A-league etc. Its just common sense.

Is there any reason why FIFA can't hold the World Cup over Dec-Jan and organise the club football seasons around this?

 

[mickctiger]

Is there any reason why FIFA can't hold the World Cup over Dec-Jan and organise the club football seasons around this?

that

 

[invinciBlues]

Is there any reason why FIFA can't hold the World Cup over Dec-Jan and organise the club football seasons around this?

Apparently every top level soccer league in the world plans its season around the [strike]dive[/strike] "world" cup.

 

[Play by Numbers]

AFL deserve minor compensation and that's it. This is a competition that is held once in a lifetime in your own country and the AFL should deal with it and move on. Some funding to compensate for the loss in revenue of tv rights but as for scheduling the AFL should just accept that for that particular year, if we do get the World Cup, that our sport will have to play second fiddle.


No, just no.

Why should they care?

The AFL is a business and a forced disruption of this magnitude could cost them millions.

And why should "our" sport play second fiddle, what obligation do the AFL have? Personally as much as I would like us to host the World Cup the AFL should go for the jugular, anything else would be negligent.

I do not think the PR boost nor any political capital gained would be worth it.