Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency X - Club has elected not to fill list spot - Davey returning from injury?

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[Foxx]

hes 25 years old and got AA literally the first year he played mid.

he is absolutely a great inside mid.

He's very good. You don't push very good players out because they aren't as good as Neale.

 

[eth-dog]

Is there a specific reason why people are trying to push parish out?

Seems to have come from nowhere?

Haven’t had a good inside mid since Jobe left, we find one and don’t want him? Seems bizzare

Because he's a front runner with poor skills that isn't strong over the ball, that can still net the club a lot of value.

 

[brain taylor]

Is there a specific reason why people are trying to push parish out?

Seems to have come from nowhere?

Haven’t had a good inside mid since Jobe left, we find one and don’t want him? Seems bizzare

has a lot of trade value and it wouldn't kill us to lose him
shouldn't shop him around but if someone comes asking for him the club should listen

 

[P Money]

For every clearance he does have he will get caught in a tackle and brought to ground more times. He has ability to win clearance if he can hit the ball in clear space (on the move) but he does not have to power to win a big contested clearance so his game relies on the ruck being able to hit him / him reading the ruck and being clear of the congestion or having someone to block for him. He does not have both aspects of a great clearance player. He is good in one aspect but poor in another. He is not like Neale who will win clearances both ways , either on the move or the ability to power through a tackle. Of course people do tackle Neale but he has an ability to break through tackles a percentage of the time where Parish does not.

Shiel has a similar issue but he has a bit more speed off the mark and a fraction more power than Parish but is still not up there with the likes of Neale.

Parish can only win clearances by having a dominant ruck hit it down to him or if he has players blocking for him.

Also Parish had the most (or very close to) clearances in the league last season, and Essendon neither has a dominant ruck nor players who block in the midfield. Sounds legit.


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[ant555]

He's very good. You don't push very good players out because they aren't as good as Neale.

Not really the point. It is how do you get better. Getting better is not just about upgrading the bottom end.
If your best players are not in the top 20 or so in their position then you are looking to upgrade them as well.
Parish is a good player. He had a great year last year. The one thing is what he does as his one wood is not rare and he has two real deficiencies as a midfielder. He can not power through a contest and his defensive actions are below average. People will say well that is okay let him play a bit more outside but he is also average at hitting targets or kicking to advantage inside 50.


Parish and Shiel need to be upgraded. Shiel is actually a better center clearance player than Parish and has a slightly better defensive record but he is also not that power clearance guy who will win you the make or break clearance under huge pressure when you need it.

Shiel proved he can do what Parish can do when he took the role back when Parish was out. Hobbs will step into that role as well next year. We are rebuilding a list. We are not gunning for top 4. You trade out good players to get something good. He is not a champion. He is a good player with deficiencies in his game.

 

[swindle]

Really wish we got Dunkley the other year

 

[ant555]

Parish can only win clearances by having a dominant ruck hit it down to him or if he has players blocking for him.

Also Parish had the most (or very close to) clearances in the league last season, and Essendon neither has a dominant ruck nor players who block in the midfield. Sounds legit.


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Well if you are happy with an 80kg inside midfielder that has had one good season and has struggled to make a difference in games where there has been big pressure on contested ball then that is fine. There is a reason we have been an average side for over 10 years and it is not just coaches not being able to sell the message. Our top end players are not champions.
Last season was last season. Even last season he tailed away a bit once sides started putting the clamps on him a bit. He is replaceable. He is not Dustin Martin. We will win clearance without him. Shiel proved that this year.

As a side note have you ever gone back and watched his clearances ?
He had a good combo going with Merrett for a while but in general our clearances are poor because they are under pressure and do not always clear the secondary or third contest. We do not have a great ability to break the initial clearance under pressure. The difference between really getting into the clear by breaking a tackle or simply a handball or kick under pressure.

Clearance: Credited to the player who has the first effective disposal in a chain that clears the stoppage area, or an ineffective kick or clanger kick that clears the stoppage area.

We have more ineffective clearances because our guys do not power out . It is never as clean as sides that have the more powerful extractors.
Parish is often in very good positions to make the clearance but his lack of real power stops him from doing it. If he had another four or five kg and that real power through the trunk he would most likely be in the top 5 inside midfielders in the game but he doesn't and is one reason why we fall down in high pressure games.

 

[rumply]

Really wish we got Dunkley the other year

Just a rumour but yesterday someone was going with Dunkley putting off his decision to see if Yze will end up at Essendon.

 

[BrunoV]

hes 25 years old and got AA literally the first year he played mid.

he is absolutely a great inside mid.

What does being awarded AA have to do with whether he is an inside mid?

 

[P Money]

Well if you are happy with an 80kg inside midfielder that has had one good season and has struggled to make a difference in games where there has been big pressure on contested ball then that is fine. There is a reason we have been an average side for over 10 years and it is not just coaches not being able to sell the message. Our top end players are not champions.
Last season was last season. Even last season he tailed away a bit once sides started putting the clamps on him a bit. He is replaceable. He is not Dustin Martin. We will win clearance without him. Shiel proved that this year.

As a side note have you ever gone back and watched his clearances ?
He had a good combo going with Merrett for a while but in general our clearances are poor because they are under pressure and do not always clear the secondary or third contest. We do not have a great ability to break the initial clearance under pressure. The difference between really getting into the clear by breaking a tackle or simply a handball or kick under pressure.

Clearance: Credited to the player who has the first effective disposal in a chain that clears the stoppage area, or an ineffective kick or clanger kick that clears the stoppage area.

We have more ineffective clearances because our guys do not power out . It is never as clean as sides that have the more powerful extractors.

Agree Parish is not a ‘bust through the pack’ or even ‘burst away from the pack’ clearance mid. But he is seriously effective at what he does in and around the contest.

The idea that we trade out our best clearance mid who’s smack bang in the perfect age bracket for the team’s development because he’s not a certain type of clearance mid in my view is silly. How about we draft/trade in a bigger body mid that fits that mould AND have Parish?

I get that sometimes you need to give up something good to get something good, but this just doesn’t make sense to me. We all know he’d go to Geelong and win a Brownlow medal while we draft in a skinny 18 year-old flanker or two with the picks we get for him.


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[ant555]

Agree Parish is not a ‘bust through the pack’ or even ‘burst away from the pack’ clearance mid. But he is seriously effective at what he does in and around the contest.

The idea that we trade out our best clearance mid who’s smack bang in the perfect age bracket for the team’s development because he’s not a certain type of clearance mid in my view is silly. How about we draft/trade in a bigger body mid that fits that mould AND have Parish?

I get that sometimes you need to give up something good to get something good, but this just doesn’t make sense to me. We all know he’d go to Geelong and win a Brownlow medal while we draft in a skinny 18 year-old flanker or two with the picks we get for him.


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Then your view is not about improving the top end.
What do you do about his average disposal and poor team defense ?
How do we improve the list if we are not looking to improve the top end ?
The last line is irrelevant. Whoever we pick may fail and we may **** it up again but that does not change the fact that we need to upgrade the top end of the list just as much as upgrading the bottom end.
If we draft in a power inside midfielder then Parish does not have the same role and is less effective.
Hobbs will overtake Parish anyway.
He will not win a Brownlow anywhere else. In fact I doubt he does anything different to what he does now anywhere else.
It makes perfect sense if you take all the emotion out of it.

 

[BrunoV]

He's very good. You don't push very good players out because they aren't as good as Neale.

You push him out because he doesn't play a valuable role.

What is the point of first touch from a stoppage being taken by a guy who cant absorb special pressure?

Someone posted that we haven't had a great inside mid since Jobe. What is the image you have in your mind when you think of Jobe? For me its getting his hands at shoulder level, with 1 or 2 guys hanging off him, handballing the ball outside the contest and to someone who is in space.

How could you compare the 2?

I'm not even being hyperbolic when I say there is no point to a player like Parish and that we should take what we can get for him before the industry figures it out (if it hasn't already). He's in position to run on to the hit out because that is a structural choice. Anyone we put in that position will get that ball.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

What does being awarded AA have to do with whether he is an inside mid?

wtf lol?

 

[Red Black and Blue]

For every clearance he does have he will get caught in a tackle and brought to ground more times. He has ability to win clearance if he can hit the ball in clear space (on the move) but he does not have to power to win a big contested clearance so his game relies on the ruck being able to hit him / him reading the ruck and being clear of the congestion or having someone to block for him. He does not have both aspects of a great clearance player. He is good in one aspect but poor in another. He is not like Neale who will win clearances both ways , either on the move or the ability to power through a tackle. Of course people do tackle Neale but he has an ability to break through tackles a percentage of the time where Parish does not.

Shiel has a similar issue but he has a bit more speed off the mark and a fraction more power than Parish but is still not up there with the likes of Neale.

Agreed.

Too many get caught up in the clearances equals the only measure of effectiveness for an inside mid.

There are lots of elements that make up an inside mids effectiveness.

These players that crash and bash have passive offensive and defensive elements that add a lot to team performance.

When you’re breaking tackles you're drawing extra opponents away from team mates, helping them get separation which allows more effective spread. When you’re good at fighting for the hard ball outnumbered and knocking players off balance, you’re removing players from the oppositions spread.

These things may be small elements, but they aren’t insignificant. They add up in the aggregate and it’s these small edges that generally are the difference between good and bad teams.

We have zero players in the guts that are adding to this passive aggregate.

 

[andleanback]

Just a rumour but yesterday someone was going with Dunkley putting off his decision to see if Yze will end up at Essendon.

Dunkley is putting of his decision because he is going to Brisbane or port, lions are still in the finals so he can’t announce. Don’t know why people think essendon are in the convo, because we aren’t.

 

[ant555]

Parish can only win clearances by having a dominant ruck hit it down to him or if he has players blocking for him.

Also Parish had the most (or very close to) clearances in the league last season, and Essendon neither has a dominant ruck nor players who block in the midfield. Sounds legit.


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By the way I did also say reading the ruck.

 

[P Money]

Then your view is not about improving the top end.
What do you do about his average disposal and poor team defense ?
How do we improve the list if we are not looking to improve the top end ?
The last line is irrelevant. Whoever we pick may fail and we may * it up again but that does not change the fact that we need to upgrade the top end of the list just as much as upgrading the bottom end.
If we draft in a power inside midfielder then Parish does not have the same role and is less effective.
Hobbs will overtake Parish anyway.
He will not win a Brownlow anywhere else. In fact I doubt he does anything different to what he does now anywhere else.
It makes perfect sense if you take all the emotion out of it.

Yeah look you make some good points to be fair. Maybe I’m just lacking in confidence that we’ll end up with a ‘better’ or at least more suited clearance mid than Parish if we happened to trade him, based on our last 15 years of list management outside of a f/s that landed in our lap. But can’t argue with the logic of what you’re saying.



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[Lads2023]

“This is what Geelong do”: Hawkins’ shock 2023 salary revealed

“This is why Geelong are what they are.”

www.sen.com.au

if Heppell is offered a new contract, he should be on less than Hawkins in my opinion

 

[ant555]

“This is what Geelong do”: Hawkins’ shock 2023 salary revealed

“This is why Geelong are what they are.”

www.sen.com.au

if Heppell is offered a new contract, he should be on less than Hawkins in my opinion

We offered him a very low salary. From what I know it was in the $250k to $300k range.

 

[Scottie65]

Attention adrian dorodo
Why are you not going aggressively for Oliver Henry … now Geelong are in the mix … he is the right mix for us and will be a star .: natural ability and a freak of a footballer …. Your P……:.. me off with your stupid selections … TO GET HIM FFS

 

[eth-dog]

Attention adrian dorodo
Why are you not going aggressively for Oliver Henry … now Geelong are in the mix … he is the right mix for us and will be a star .: natural ability and a freak of a footballer …. Your P……:.. me off with your stupid selections … TO GET HIM FFS

Who's to say he isn't chasing Henry? Just because it isn't in the media doesn't mean it isn't happening. The Geelong drawcard is strong due to growing up there and his brother playing there too.

Also Henry is hardly a position of dire need. He's good but we don't need another flaky, inconsistent medium forward

 

[Lads2023]

Attention adrian dorodo
Why are you not going aggressively for Oliver Henry … now Geelong are in the mix … he is the right mix for us and will be a star .: natural ability and a freak of a footballer …. Your P……:.. me off with your stupid selections … TO GET HIM FFS

I like him - but I’d rather Setterfield and stocker

 

[Westlo]

Add in 30 and it might be enough.

What will they have left we’d be interested in?

That's for your god Dodo to work out.

If not from Richmond involve another team, it's not that hard.

A smart list manger will make it happen meanwhile dumbass Dodo will probably be surprised when McCartney calls out Davey.

 

[Dons4days]

Trading our second this year for Henry seems to be a good way to get ahead of burning it on a Davey bid and add another player in the right age demographic.

I understand the trade may not be that straightforward but it’s a good starting point.

 

[andleanback]

We offered him a very low salary. From what I know it was in the $250k to $300k range.

The original offer was around 250 they might’ve raised it a bit since