An alternative to percentage to separate teams on equal wins

[sainter12riewoldt]

Team A: 4.1 8.2 12.3 12.4 76
Team B: 4.0 8.0 12.0 18.0 108

Team A = 76/1 = 76. Add 76 = 152
Team B = 108/3 = ~35. Add 108 = 143

So if my understand and calculations are correct, the team that just won by 6 goals has a lower 'coefficient' than the team that lost.

I know it's a troll/joke thread, but yeah. Silly.

defensive scores are divided by qtrs lost then add average attacking
however there theroy is still bogus.
team A lost 1 qtr and 108 conceeded
108/1 = 108 add 76 thats 184
team B lost 3 qtrs and 76 conceeded
76/3 = ~25 add 108 thats 133

 

[Crankyhawk]

[
It's not like the system is that hard. Take the total defensive score from all games. Divide that by the number of quarters lost. Add the average "points for" per game then multiply all that by the Herald-Suns Full-Strength Indicator. If an adult can't do that... then seriously where are we as a society?[/quote]


I know this is a troll thread, but please show some basic understanding of what the aims of percentage/ or any coefficient or whatever you want to call it should be.

Herald sun full strength indicator - varies b/w 0 - 100% (there's your percentage again that you hate!). Would you recalculate your coefficient on a round by round basis (as the FSI changes from week to week also)

And a team that cops massive injuries and still wins gets further punishment (b/c FSI will be lower say about 80%) compared to a full strength side at 100%. If you want to use FSI, should divide your figure by it, not multiply.

See Armitage2Riewoldts post re coefficient calculation for a sample game to prove how stupid this idea is

 

[LJ Garner]

Wrong. Football IS a microcosm of society. Lots of underpriviliged kids have no desire, no inclination and no avenue through a poor upbringing, to learn basic numeracy, let alone advanced calculus.

Why shouldn't football take a stand and develop a system like the KMCO that works but ALSO helps these kids at the same time? We've seen football breach many of societys problems like the racism issue and drugs. These are all issues outside football that football helps bring attention to. Why shouldn't learning be the same? Or do you not want what's best for the country? FFS.

It's not like the system is that hard. Take the total defensive score from all games. Divide that by the number of quarters lost. Add the average "points for" per game then multiply all that by the Herald-Suns Full-Strength Indicator. If an adult can't do that... then seriously where are we as a society?

Because percentages is not meant to teach kids maths, it's meant to be the best way of separating teams in the game of AFL.. WHICH IT IS. It awards high scoring, and great defense.

And trust me, I did statistics as a subject last semester in Uni, and I can see where you're coming from, but the system doesn't work. See all those examples prior to this comment for proof.

And for your comment about a game of 50 - 25 being a worse game than 100 - 60.. why is that so? If a team is able to outscore their opponent 100%, why is it another team who leaks goals and can only outscore the other team by about 60% considered better?

Trust me, if your kid is confused about percentages, he's going to be more confused about the system you've proposed. How can a kid, understand the purpose of that system? Maths is about understanding how the numbers work, not about memorising some formula. I bet your kid could remember the formula, but he wouldn't know why you used that formula.

Anyhows, percentages aren't that confusing and it makes sense. If one team outscores another team, he has effectively scored more than 100% of what he has conceded..

 

[Dangas]

At least Kanga man is throwing the option out there

 

[Donakebab]

As if naming your kid Reuben isn't bad enough, you couldn't explain to him how it's possible to have more then 100% so you come up with this half baked idea. What happens when he can't spell? New language? Poor kid gonna have it rough.

 

[sauce_head]

Fair call. I wish I had something to stimulate my mind like the proposed system which would improve my maths. It's hard enough getting kids to read these days, let alone learn how to add up. The new system works and our kids would be the beneficiaries. It would improve their numeracy skills 100% (pun intended)

Or do you not care about our intelligence as a nation? How about we just continue to be a nation of people who can't count?

What kind of system uses a figure above 100% when kids are told that nothing can be above 100%? What kind of message are we sending if we keep using it?

I was telling my young fella to give 100%. And he said, "But Dad, Geelong has a percentage of 145%. Wouldn't it be better for the team if I gave 145% too?"

What could I say? The kid had me stumped. It was at that point that I went home and developed the proposed better system. It was like a light went off inside me and I had a vision.

If you can not tell the difference between the above two applications of percentage it is time you either start reading a basic maths book or get your kid a tutor. At any rate, kids can only get less intelligent by reading your posts.

 

[Pino]

Wrong. Football IS a microcosm of society. Lots of underpriviliged kids have no desire, no inclination and no avenue through a poor upbringing, to learn basic numeracy, let alone advanced calculus.

Why shouldn't football take a stand and develop a system like the KMCO that works but ALSO helps these kids at the same time? We've seen football breach many of societys problems like the racism issue and drugs. These are all issues outside football that football helps bring attention to. Why shouldn't learning be the same? Or do you not want what's best for the country? FFS.

It's not like the system is that hard. Take the total defensive score from all games. Divide that by the number of quarters lost. Add the average "points for" per game then multiply all that by the Herald-Suns Full-Strength Indicator. If an adult can't do that... then seriously where are we as a society?

It's all about the kids...well done. Mild enough to beat the vast percentage

 

[The_Ru]

Wrong. Football IS a microcosm of society. Lots of underpriviliged kids have no desire, no inclination and no avenue through a poor upbringing, to learn basic numeracy, let alone advanced calculus.

Is this line integral to your argument?

 

[gothecrows]

At least Kanga man is throwing the option out there

And everyone who read it is just a little bit dumber for having done so. It would've been better if he hadn't.

This proposed system is just ridiculous - as has been said before, it rewards teams that do worse defensively.

 

[shotta]

better to calculate the percentage of every game. round 1 win 100 to 50 = 200%. round 2 lose 50 to 100=50%. =250% divided by 2 rounds = 125%.

 

[Pino]

This proposed system is just ridiculous - as has been said before, it rewards teams that do worse defensively.

Nah, he's right on the money. You haven't seen the light after 9 pages. That's the unbelievable part

 

[Crankyhawk]

The light being that this thread is a completely ridiculous whinge by a "North supporter" who doesn't like North's low percentage.

Good to see that other North supporters aren't supporting this.

Question whether Kanga man actually is a north supproter or is just trying to make them look bad

 

[sauce_head]

Learn to maths. 0/x is 0. And we can use that sideways eight for the other sides.

While I appreciate you think this thread is stupid, and I agree, I must correct you having studied maths at a uni level. Anything divided by zero is not zero it is undefined. How many nothings in something makes no sense. As such it is not zero.

 

[Sharker18]

Kanga man you are a tosser!!

 

[Marklar_33]

better to calculate the percentage of every game. round 1 win 100 to 50 = 200%. round 2 lose 50 to 100=50%. =250% divided by 2 rounds = 125%.

Im gonna give this method a crack with the current ladder later on to see if it has any merit...

 

[mushda]

Epic thread!

I salute you Kangaman

 

[TempleKelvington]

He lost me at this point....."Okay, lets be realistic, no one likes percentage".

I love percentage....well 90% of the time.....

 

[MagooTheRoo]

Now, you're being ridiculous. That's totally unworkable.

On the previous page I outlined my improved KMCO (Kanga man coefficient) which was:

- take the total score against for the season
- divide the above figure by the number of quarters lost in total
- then add the average "points for" per game
- then multiply the total by the Herald Sun's Full-Strength-Indicator (FSI)

4 simple steps. Ok, maybe marginally more complicated than the current system, but not by much. It couldn't be easier to understand. And let's all be honest, it will help kids with their maths. Don't you want that?

Or would you prefer the current percentage farce that doesn't persuade kids to want to learn and understand? Heaven forbid we use a system that actually makes kids sit down with a calculator and work out how it's done, improving their numeracy skills. No, we wouldn't want to improve our education as a society would we? Get real guys.

Yeah, but you started it!

Besides WTF is the Herald Sun's Full-Strength-Indicator ? Does it apply in night games where they only serve mid-strength?

 

[crimson]

Don't they? Why not?

i like %%%%%%%%%%

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Nah, he's right on the money. You haven't seen the light after 9 pages. That's the unbelievable part

How true!

Pissing myself laughing at how easily KM's been catching the fish on this thread so far... he's a man after my own heart in this field, and he's done this masterfully, but it's still amazing how many have just leapt onto his hook without even stopping to think first

 

[pinion]

Percentage has one great flaw: if one team has scored zero points at the point that it needs to be calculated, it's an impossible calculation to complete.

that's such a serious flaw, I'd say this OP is on to something

What if we have a situation where after round 1 the top 8 teams defeated the bottom 8 teams keeping them all scoreless.

That woudl mean we would not be able to calculate percentages for all 16 teams.

Completely unacceptable.

what if, after round 1, the bottom 8 teams had beaten the top 8 teams and kept them scoreless? then i'd be really confused

 

[Pino]

How true!

Pissing myself laughing at how easily KM's been catching the fish on this thread so far... he's a man after my own heart in this field, and he's done this masterfully, but it's still amazing how many have just leapt onto his hook without even stopping to think first

I can't believe it. I mean he's managed it all. Ridiculously wild starting statement, education woes and their remedy then has slyly introduced the Huns FSI. Magical stuff.

 

[clivewaterhousen]

worst idea

the fact that teams and supporters know that they have to win by a certain amount in the final round and how it will effect the ladder makes percentage perfect

 

[pazza]

This whole discussion reminds of me the 12th man's somewhat impressive description of how a run rate is calculated "the number of balls bowled divided by the number of balls faced multiplied by the average age of the batting side minus...the number of spanners in a Sidchrome toolkit"

 

[blackhead&boil]

While I appreciate you think this thread is stupid, and I agree, I must correct you having studied maths at a uni level. Anything divided by zero is not zero it is undefined. How many nothings in something makes no sense. As such it is not zero.

he didn say "aything divided by zero", he said "zero divided by anything". study harder at either maths or reading.


nothing wrong with percentage. leave it as it is...