Anthony Albanese - How long? -3-

[MPMonkeys]

But you've been denying a link between the most powerful media organisation in the country (probably the world) and the overwhelming amount of positive "news" about the LNP (and the ramifications for the ALP).

You can't have it both ways...

That is not what I said.
Seriously you want better media but you can't grasp a simple paragraph. You people make me laugh.

 

[Carn The Berries]

No, its not the journalists job to check if its raining. You fundamentally do not understand what the media is there to do.

Its job is to report on the fact that its raining in a way that will generate the most eyeballs on it.

You have absolutely no concept of what it actually means to be a journalist...

 

[Carn The Berries]

That is not what I said.
Seriously you want better media but you can't grasp a simple paragraph. You people make me laugh.

So you ARE saying that the Murdoch media are responsible for driving the political agenda in this country, in a way that is advantageous to their own personal/business outcomes?

If that's the case, why castigate anyone who attempts to bring the topic up?

 

[MPMonkeys]

You have absolutely no concept of what it actually means to be a journalist...

Oh please - who taught you that journalists should only report on facts and nothing else?
Some idiot who has never sat in a press room I imagine.

Because let me tell you, a journalist who did only that would soon find themselves out of a job. There is an informative and an illustrative side to being a journalist. And they both compliment each other.

 

[MPMonkeys]

So you ARE saying that the Murdoch media are responsible for driving the political agenda in this country, in a way that is advantageous to their own personal/business outcomes?

If that's the case, why castigate anyone who attempts to bring the topic up?

No, I am not saying that.
You are imagining things again.

 

[Gough]

Oh please - who taught you that journalists should only report on facts and nothing else?
Some idiot who has never sat in a press room I imagine.

Because let me tell you, a journalist who did only that would soon find themselves out of a job. There is an informative and an illustrative side to being a journalist. And they both compliment each other.

What else should journalists report on if not the facts?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

There is an informative and an illustrative side to being a journalist. And they both compliment each other.

Sounds more like a cartoonists job.

 

[nut]

this means **** all to regular Joe. All people know is that they have less disposable income.

Yer regular Joe needs to grow a brain and remember that they are now paying for the costs of the Covid stimulus.

I personally would have raised taxes to control inflation and payed down debt instead of letting banks profit from high interest rates, but regular Joe would have got angry at that too.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

You can't 'break-up' corporate media. It's never worked anywhere in the democratic western world.
Its a ridiculous concept to be honest.

You know how Albanese gets good media?
By being good at his job.

People are unhappy with him and Labor. The media are simply reporting and illustrating this. That's it. There is no big conspiracy. And obviously these media reports are resonating with the consumers otherwise they would have changed tack. Again, not rocket science.

There is a “big conspiracy” (although that word suggests something covert, and Murdoch in particular has made no secret of his intentions on numerous occasions), and plenty of posters on here have provided plenty of evidence for it, but you just ignore them like facts are irrelevant to your higher calling.

Saying something over and over on a website doesn’t make it magically come true mate.

 

[Boxo004]

Yer regular Joe needs to grow a brain and remember that they are now paying for the costs of the Covid stimulus.

I personally wound have raised taxes to control inflation and payed down debt instead of letting banks profit from high interest rates, but regular Joe would have got angry at that too.

Judging by this response shows how far out of touch you are

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

These aren't state secrets. I'm not sure why people get so upset about it.

Because there’s “bias”, which we all have, and then there’s literally thousands of lies, which Murdoch’s press told and consequently had to pay AU$1.2 billion for defamation, the biggest in US history.

Stop making out that Murdoch, in particular, is just another media boss.

His empire is malignant and the US justice system has shown it unambiguously.

If you continue to ignore that fact, your posts will be greeted with derision because it will be plain you’re nothing but a barracker.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Seriously you want better media but you can't grasp a simple paragraph. You people make me laugh.

AU$1.2 billion is what you can’t grasp.

 

[Saint]

Easiest trick in the book is muddying the waters between legitimate criticism and bias.

When you've decided that a party is bad and the media is on your side, it's an easy argument, they're complaining about bias, but really it's that their guy is bad. People with this mindset will never be budged.

Albanese is an ordinary leader. Problem with the ALP is that to get to the top you don't need to be good at leadership, you have to be good with power-broking. So they often get people like Albo at the top who aren't good, natural leaders. Then they try to make it work and the bloke looks rudderless. Instead of setting the agenda he seems to be waiting to be told what the agenda is and his handlers seemingly don't know what to do with him either.

And natural leaders in his party can't show leadership or it looks like they're undermining him, which is worse than actually leading the nation according to ALP rules. So the ALP ends up in a state of paralysis and it shows.

They also can't change policies without a huge factional argument, which gets leaked to the press by those who don't want it and everything they try gets scuttled by factions.

The ALP aren't just bad in Government because of the media, it's also because of the structure of the organisation.

 

[nut]

Judging by this response shows how far out of touch you are

lol. Judging by your lack of understanding of why there is an international cost of living crisis shows that we need to boost spending on education.

 

[faible]

ITT: MPM arguing simultaneously that journalists only report positively on Albanese if he's good at his job because the media are 'simply reporting' but also that it's not journalists jobs to report facts.

This is the logic of a Trump voter in action. Where nothing means anything and consistency isn't needed.

 

[Carn The Berries]

ITT: MPM arguing simultaneously that journalists only report positively on Albanese if he's good at his job because the media are 'simply reporting' but also that it's not journalists jobs to report facts.

This is the logic of a Trump voter in action. Where nothing means anything and consistency isn't needed.

And that MSM don't drive the political agenda while also arguing they do whatever makes them the most money

 

[faible]

Easiest trick in the book is muddying the waters between legitimate criticism and bias.

When you've decided that a party is bad and the media is on your side, it's an easy argument, they're complaining about bias, but really it's that their guy is bad. People with this mindset will never be budged.

Albanese is an ordinary leader. Problem with the ALP is that to get to the top you don't need to be good at leadership, you have to be good with power-broking. So they often get people like Albo at the top who aren't good, natural leaders. Then they try to make it work and the bloke looks rudderless. Instead of setting the agenda he seems to be waiting to be told what the agenda is and his handlers seemingly don't know what to do with him either.

And natural leaders in his party can't show leadership or it looks like they're undermining him, which is worse than actually leading the nation according to ALP rules. So the ALP ends up in a state of paralysis and it shows.

They also can't change policies without a huge factional argument, which gets leaked to the press by those who don't want it and everything they try gets scuttled by factions.

The ALP aren't just bad in Government because of the media, it's also because of the structure of the organisation.

I'm not sure the LNP are any different. Dutton? ScoMo? Neither are leaders, neither are even particularly competent.

Meanwhile, you had Bishop who was genuinely competent and well-liked by the public.

The Australian system isn't like the US one where you need a cult of personality to convince people to vote, so we don't tend to require these 'big' personalities to generate interest. Everyone has to vote for <someone>.

It's also easier in opposition because you don't have to actually do anything and get to just spend your time complaining without any real requirement to make sure it's possible. I'm not sure that represents leadership by any means.

The ALP are in a weird spot right now, they're an incumbent government coming up for election at a time when incumbent governments worldwide are struggling to be re-elected due to stuff largely out of their control. They've seen the US swing hard to the right, they're seeing the coalition swing to the right. They don't seem to know whether they should follow the coalition to the right, or push a more progressive agenda.

The Democrats tried to be a conservative-lite party instead of a progressive one and they suffered for it (along with a number of other factors like Biden's late withdrawal).

The ALP IMO need to pursue a genuinely progressive agenda that will appeal to the U35 voting cohort that might otherwise vote for Greens or progressive indepedents and minor parties, rather than hoping to appeal to the more moderate conservatives and hope to pull voters away from the Teals or LNP.

 

[MPMonkeys]

What else should journalists report on if not the facts?

They need to report in a manner that is easily digestible. And that means a bit of hyperbole here, a flourish there, some opinion and some color.
Otherwise all you will get is a slab of information that nobody will read or consume which makes the 'journalism' pointless.

And I find the whole premise of 'facts' problematic anyway. One persons fact is another persons fiction. The costings around nuclear are a case in point. The Coalition have costed from one organization so in their views those costs are the 'facts' whilst Labor have costed from somewhere else so they have a different view of 'facts'.
You can't have two competing facts about the same problem statement but here we are.

Unless the story is completely binary, facts are always in question depending on who you talk to.

 

[The Punter]

Being in opposition has its benefits and its problems. You make a mistake in opposition, it's impossible to fix because you can't do anything. Governments can make mistakes (and they make plenty of mistakes, regardless of party) but then have the power to fix them.

Also, on Julie Bishop, who I held in high regard: she was Foreign Affairs Minister. At the time this was largely an area of bipartisan agreement, so it's easy to look good when the opposition aren't whacking you and you spend a lot of time out of the country.

 

[Carn The Berries]

They need to report in a manner that is easily digestible. And that means a bit of hyperbole here, a flourish there, some opinion and some color.
Otherwise all you will get is a slab of information that nobody will read or consume which makes the 'journalism' pointless.

And I find the whole premise of 'facts' problematic anyway. One persons fact is another persons fiction. The costings around nuclear are a case in point. The Coalition have costed from one organization so in their views those costs are the 'facts' whilst Labor have costed from somewhere else so they have a different view of 'facts'.
You can't have two competing facts about the same problem statement but here we are.

Unless the story is completely binary, facts are always in question depending on who you talk to.

Reporting the news and writing opinion pieces should always be kept separate, and denoted as such.

In the example you have provided, you can report the factual points from both sides. The ALP have released on set of costings and the LNP have released another. People's opinions on each should be kept separate. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

 

[faible]

And I find the whole premise of 'facts' problematic anyway.

Trump voters in a nutshell.

 

[nut]

Facts aren’t facts … I’m learning so much here… I think.

 

[The Punter]

Costings are not facts. They are predictions.

Your bank balance is a fact. Your budget is a prediction.

Facts are things that have happened. They are different from predictions, analysis, assertions or hyperbole.

 

[faible]

Facts aren’t facts … I’m learning so much here… I think.

Arguably a costing of a major project some time off in the future is more of an opinion than a fact.

It's not even a fixed price contract.

Also the above.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Hes in a spot of bother if the Guardian is saying net negatives are up by 11.

What does this mean
Net negatives?