Anti-Football Media/General Public and Police Thread!

[Colonial]

No one has defended the use of flares. My post points out the hypocrisy of ignoring violence at AFL games and ignoring up to 200 people being thrown out of cricket games when, as I've stated previously, 3 flares have been ripped at Melbourne Victory games this season across 5 games and 140,000 supporters - but this is front page news.

People like you are the reason that the FFA have screwed this up so badly - they're more intent on pandering to "sokkha bashers" who will never attend or appreciate the game, and would rather hysterically scream whatever bullshit News Corp fed them from their keyboard instead of going to the game and discovering what the game and the atmosphere really are.

And yes, people are emotional about this, because 3 flares this season in crowds of 140,000 resulted in us being labeled terrorists not once, but twice. And people like you would defend the ignorant mummy bloggers, the "alleged" pedophiles, and the habitual drunk drivers who make these accusations.

Now **** off troll.

People like me?

Never attend or appreciate the game? shows you cant even read *******.

Please show where ive defended those scumbags.

Once again instead of saying "hey lets give them nothing to complain about" you instead whinge that "other sports do it"

Calling someone a troll is becoming like calling someone a racist. Sad really.

Just because you cant handle a responce you go the easy way.

It's people like you that will mean football never hits where it should be in this country. Always looking to blame elsewhere.

 

[nobbyiscool]

People like me?

Never attend or appreciate the game? shows you cant even read *******.

Please show where ive defended those scumbags.

Once again instead of saying "hey lets give them nothing to complain about" you instead whinge that "other sports do it"

Calling someone a troll is becoming like calling someone a racist. Sad really.

Just because you cant handle a responce you go the easy way.

It's people like you that will mean football never hits where it should be in this country. Always looking to blame elsewhere.

It's funny you say that, I suspect a hell of a lot of this is about race. People are xenephobic towards a football culture that they can't understand. They don't hate flares from the perspective of them being dangerous - they hate them from the perspective of it being representative of eastern European culture. They hate football from the jingoistic perspective of it not being Australian - it dares to be cosmopolitan.

There's a reason that the people arguing against football, 99% of the time, are the same racists and xenephobes that argue against boat people (Jones, Hadley etc).

And give them nothing to complain about?

Over 4 million people have attended A-League games in the period of time that 198 people have been banned. So I'll return to the original point - how many people would've been banned from the AFL or the NRL if they were as stringent in their banning process?

 

[Cotchin 9]

I'd say I'm more of a partial A-League supporter nowadays. Used to go to a lot of Victory games when I was a bit younger around the A-League's inception, and would be in and around the terraces, can't ever recall there being any issues and everything was pretty good fun. Go to a few games every now or then be it City or Victory and from what I've seen the way thing are being portrayed is quite disgraceful, really. Generally see a lot of families and kids at games, like AFL etc etc. Seen a few games overseas and it's nothing like here, can only really recall a Barca game where there were families and kids in numbers.

And every code has dickhead supporters, absolute smear campaign.

 

[peternorth]

So don't set off flares.

never had. never will. people who do can FO as far as im concerned. id hate one to be near me or my family.

i sat in the dry area on the weekend. it was pleasant. no alcohol needed for a good time. good behaviour.
------------------------

bias is a natural human trait. we all have them. if there's a crowd fight at a footy game it IS reported, however inherent bias dictates it being a say 6/10 on the severity scale. society as a whole sees the same thing at a soccer game and its maximum head shaking.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

O'Brien and Wilson are News Ltd hacks , wilson is married to former boss. With 2x DUIs to her name you would think she should be the last person to pass judgement.

As for Gallop, well he used to be a News Ltd puppet at NRL so can understand his reluctance speak up, even though it's ompletely incompetent from a so called leader. He's stuffed up so much on this issue and player's pay, he really should resign. A complete buffoon.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

True.. but at the same time if they weren't idiots they wouldn't get themselves in the paper. I've never been in the paper.. because I haven't been an idiot.

I've seen lots of idiots at the footy who have never made the paper.

 

[giggler99]

All this talk about flares is starting to just become an easy excuse to attack the game. You know this season I've been to four Victory games and I've only seen two flares let off both at the Derby and both from the City active end and they where put out straight away and the person who lit them kicked out! No other flares in any of the other match from both City and Victory from what I know. last season I can probably count in one hand how many flares I saw go off. I say the message is starting to get through (in Melbourne anyway). Soon there will be none and it will happen, then what will the excuses be?

 

[nobbyiscool]

bias is a natural human trait. we all have them. if there's a crowd fight at a footy game it IS reported, however inherent bias dictates it being a say 6/10 on the severity scale. society as a whole sees the same thing at a soccer game and its maximum head shaking.

Brawls are - 1 on 1 fights or even king hits are not. Streakers are not reported as a security issue. Broken chairs are not treated as evidence of thuggery.

edit: now that I think about it, I don't even know that brawls are. This is going back a lot of years now - but I happened to be in Melbourne for the Sheedy/Hird final game in Melbourne vs Richmond. There was a brawl in the friggen MCC members(!) that entertained the radio commentators immensely - but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't in the paper the next day.

 

[nobbyiscool]

O'Brien and Wilson are News Ltd hacks , wilson is married to former boss. With 2x DUIs to her name you would think she should be the last person to pass judgement.

As for Gallop, well he used to be a News Ltd puppet at NRL so can understand his reluctance speak up, even though it's ompletely incompetent from a so called leader. He's stuffed up so much on this issue and player's pay, he really should resign. A complete buffoon.

Don't forget the driving drunk without a license... someone with lesser access to high-priced lawyers would've gone to jail.

On Gallop... what a weird legacy he has in rugby league. Everyone hated him at the time, he was inept at handling player behaviour issues... yet somehow many rugby league supporters look upon his time in the NRL with completely rose-tinted glasses, forgetting that one of the first acts of the ARL Independent Commission was to sack him! (sorry, "mutually part ways"... before John Grant started taking shots at his leadership and management)


To think about the last 2 weeks a little more deeply, I have 2 other thoughts on it. The first is that the game was far, far too reliant on Frank Lowy. I can't help but think that this would've all been avoided if he'd still been the Chairman, and I can't help but wonder how much of this was caused by the relevant parties learning to do their jobs without Lowy effectively telling them what to do. The second is that, now that Frank Lowy has left the game, and given the strange blurred lines between the FFA and the A League this week - the time is right for the A League to have its own independent commission and become removed from the FFA.

 

[EBUS]

Funny how there hasn't been much made of that Freo fan that hit a woman at Subi...

This, if that exact incident happened at an A-League game (with subsequent 8 month jail sentence), it would be front page news for weeks with every man and their dog calling for an end to active support for good. The double standards are truly disgusting and it needs to stop.

This last week has been a landmark moment for the sport here, never before have all fans and football media alike been so united with both the filth articles and the pathetic actions of the FFA, very interesting times ahead with these boycotts set to continue but inevitably it will end with change for the better.

 

[jatz14]

This, if that exact incident happened at an A-League game (with subsequent 8 month jail sentence), it would be front page news for weeks with every man and their dog calling for an end to active support for good. The double standards are truly disgusting and it needs to stop.

This last week has been a landmark moment for the sport here, never before have all fans and football media alike been so united with both the filth articles and the pathetic actions of the FFA, very interesting times ahead with these boycotts set to continue but inevitably it will end with change for the better.

Well it actually was a pretty big story, even though he didn't actually hit her, he pushed her in the throat. I also do not know about where you are, but even his sentencing made headlines in WA. What didn't occur, was an OMG the media is out to get us reaction. The Adam Goodes booing story is another negative story about the AFL that got endless press and debate. It is also a story that if the media hadn't jumped on it and turned it into a sensation, would have died a pretty quick death I think. They jumped on it because of the drama of the footage with all the booing.

Media seek sensation, they look for controversy, especially with pics. They will not report a fight at the AFL if there is no pictures/video. Flares going of in a crowd surrounded by a bunch of rowdy guys jumping up and down is GREAT vision. Visually dramatic, and able to be spun into all sorts of controversy, and the more there is a reaction and controversy, the more incentive to do a repeat story the next time it happens. Hell, if I was in the media, I would be offering to smuggle flares in for the fans.

The walk outs are also GREAT for the media, lots of nice shots, stories just begging to be written.

If FFA and soccer fans had gotten together to decide on a strategy to attract negative press, they would have come up with something like what has happened over the last few weeks.

The media sticking like stink on shit to soccer looking for negative stories to write isn't a conspiracy, it is just that for sports media, soccer is the gift that keeps on giving.

Another aspect is Soccer is just the right size. You can write controversial stories about things that are widely popular to a point, past that point you make people uncomfortable and they switch off. If the media go too negative about the AFL, people who follow the AFL will disengage, as a large portion of people into sport are into AFL that is a disincentive to the media. Soccer however, is big enough to be newsworthy, but with a small enough supporter base that you can afford to really piss them off, and still have a news story.

While it might feel unfair, it isn't some conspiracy. Being bitten by a dog you poke with a stick isn't a conspiracy, its a dog being a dog. You light flairs in a crowd at a soccer stadium there is going to be a news story with lots of lovely vision, light 2 and it will be a big story, light 3 and throw some stuff and it will be a riot (with lots of lovely vision).

 

[EBUS]

Well it actually was a pretty big story, even though he didn't actually hit her, he pushed her in the throat. I also do not know about where you are, but even his sentencing made headlines in WA. What didn't occur, was an OMG the media is out to get us reaction. The Adam Goodes booing story is another negative story about the AFL that got endless press and debate. It is also a story that if the media hadn't jumped on it and turned it into a sensation, would have died a pretty quick death I think. They jumped on it because of the drama of the footage with all the booing.

Media seek sensation, they look for controversy, especially with pics. They will not report a fight at the AFL if there is no pictures/video. Flares going of in a crowd surrounded by a bunch of rowdy guys jumping up and down is GREAT vision. Visually dramatic, and able to be spun into all sorts of controversy, and the more there is a reaction and controversy, the more incentive to do a repeat story the next time it happens. Hell, if I was in the media, I would be offering to smuggle flares in for the fans.

The walk outs are also GREAT for the media, lots of nice shots, stories just begging to be written.

If FFA and soccer fans had gotten together to decide on a strategy to attract negative press, they would have come up with something like what has happened over the last few weeks.

The media sticking like stink on shit to soccer looking for negative stories to write isn't a conspiracy, it is just that for sports media, soccer is the gift that keeps on giving.

Another aspect is Soccer is just the right size. You can write controversial stories about things that are widely popular to a point, past that point you make people uncomfortable and they switch off. If the media go too negative about the AFL, people who follow the AFL will disengage, as a large portion of people into sport are into AFL that is a disincentive to the media. Soccer however, is big enough to be newsworthy, but with a small enough supporter base that you can afford to really piss them off, and still have a news story.

While it might feel unfair, it isn't some conspiracy. Being bitten by a dog you poke with a stick isn't a conspiracy, its a dog being a dog. You light flairs in a crowd at a soccer stadium there is going to be a news story with lots of lovely vision, light 2 and it will be a big story, light 3 and throw some stuff and it will be a riot (with lots of lovely vision).

I see what you're saying to an extent, but its more than just negative articles, its the opinions of those in the media and the wider public, and even those in senior police roles.

Through the past week some of the things that have been said have been absolutely ridiculous, compared to terrosists for ****s sake, senior police offices calling football fans "grubby pack animals" and saying they don't want the game here to end up like the "cage model" in England, its quite apparent these people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about but are happy to shoot incredibly misguided opinions which stems from a deep dislike of the game and as nobby alluded to in some cases is xenophobic in its nature, so while I see what you're saying there's more to it than that.

 

[peternorth]

All this talk about flares is starting to just become an easy excuse to attack the game. You know this season I've been to four Victory games and I've only seen two flares let off both at the Derby and both from the City active end and they where put out straight away and the person who lit them kicked out! No other flares in any of the other match from both City and Victory from what I know. last season I can probably count in one hand how many flares I saw go off. I say the message is starting to get through (in Melbourne anyway). Soon there will be none and it will happen, then what will the excuses be?

move onto a different excuse. its like the following IMO

- diving/simulation. this was always an excuse used by afl only fans. then the act crept into footy. i recall arguing with one poster here highlighting this very thing. he/she said "yeah but at least in footy they dont roll around pretending to be shot". see, original argument was based on just the dive itself, then morphed into something else

- refugees - reached an apex after 9-11 (11-9). basic premise has always been "we dont want them queue jumpers here!!11!!". but someone came up with excuse that "we dont want them here because we dont want them to drown. we're afraid the boat will sink and women and children will drown in the sea". faux compassion

- islam. at the reclaim australia rally last week, one protester asked a journo "would you like it if your daughters genitals were mutilated?". hahahahaha, come on mate, can see right through you, you can't even spell mutilated let alone know what it means.

im emotional now.

 

[peternorth]

Brawls are - 1 on 1 fights or even king hits are not. Streakers are not reported as a security issue. Broken chairs are not treated as evidence of thuggery.

edit: now that I think about it, I don't even know that brawls are. This is going back a lot of years now - but I happened to be in Melbourne for the Sheedy/Hird final game in Melbourne vs Richmond. There was a brawl in the friggen MCC members(!) that entertained the radio commentators immensely - but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't in the paper the next day.

that's it. inherent bias. everyone loves the biff at the footy. but at football.....

 

[peternorth]

I see what you're saying to an extent, but its more than just negative articles, its the opinions of those in the media and the wider public, and even those in senior police roles.

Through the past week some of the things that have been said have been absolutely ridiculous, compared to terrosists for ****s sake, senior police offices calling football fans "grubby pack animals" and saying they don't want the game here to end up like the "cage model" in England, its quite apparent these people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about but are happy to shoot incredibly misguided opinions which stems from a deep dislike of the game and as nobby alluded to in some cases is xenophobic in its nature, so while I see what you're saying there's more to it than that.

if they had any idea, they'd realise there are no cages in english football (from my knowledge).

 

[nobbyiscool]

Another aspect is Soccer is just the right size. You can write controversial stories about things that are widely popular to a point, past that point you make people uncomfortable and they switch off. If the media go too negative about the AFL, people who follow the AFL will disengage, as a large portion of people into sport are into AFL that is a disincentive to the media. Soccer however, is big enough to be newsworthy, but with a small enough supporter base that you can afford to really piss them off, and still have a news story.

I liked your post, it was smart and well thought out. And its along the same lines as something that I've insisted to friends and family for years - news is only news in as much as there are pictures of it.

But I think the quoted bit defeats your argument. While I'm not using the word "conspiracy" as such - the notion that they target one sport when another sport would not be reported upon for the same occurrence is a "conspiracy" of sorts. If one sport is being "protected" while another sport is being shat on, that would also feed into a "conspiracy".

I don't know. You could be right. But the more I think about it, the voices that are shitting on football lead me to believe that there is a large element of xenephobia to this. I don't say racism, because I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt and say it's not deliberate or malicious per se - but it's xenephobic in that football borrows from foreign cultures that these people don't understand and find intimidating for no reason other than it's different to their norm. Which is why a drunken fight at the footy is just a drunken fight at the footy - it's a norm. But a drunken fight at the "sokkha" is evidence of thuggery.

 

[peternorth]

I liked your post, it was smart and well thought out. And its along the same lines as something that I've insisted to friends and family for years - news is only news in as much as there are pictures of it.

But I think the quoted bit defeats your argument. While I'm not using the word "conspiracy" as such - the notion that they target one sport when another sport would not be reported upon for the same occurrence is a "conspiracy" of sorts. If one sport is being "protected" while another sport is being shat on, that would also feed into a "conspiracy".

I don't know. You could be right. But the more I think about it, the voices that are shitting on football lead me to believe that there is a large element of xenephobia to this. I don't say racism, because I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt and say it's not deliberate or malicious per se - but it's xenephobic in that football borrows from foreign cultures that these people don't understand and find intimidating for no reason other than it's different to their norm. Which is why a drunken fight at the footy is just a drunken fight at the footy - it's a norm. But a drunken fight at the "sokkha" is evidence of thuggery.

and getting pissed and singing ur going home in the back of the dippy van is cool and funny

 

[EBUS]

if they had any idea, they'd realise there are no cages in english football (from my knowledge).

Yeah sorry, was implying that when I said "no idea what they're talking about"

I believe the cages stopped in 1989 after Hillsborough (not 100%), but for that to come from a senior police officer just illustrates the lack of understanding on these issues.

 

[brucetiki]

Yeah sorry, was implying that when I said "no idea what they're talking about"

I believe the cages stopped in 1989 after Hillsborough (not 100%), but for that to come from a senior police officer just illustrates the lack of understanding on these issues.

Pretty much. Hillsborough triggered the Taylor report which recommended all-seater stadiums for the top flight leagues in England, amongst other things.

 

[Mr_Bojangles]

Still some offended from the Wanderers completely shadowing the Giants me thinks.

 

[Colonial]

Still some offended from the Wanderers completely shadowing the Giants me thinks.

Yeah nah.

 

[nobbyiscool]

You know what annoys me the most about the allusion to "cages".

The most notorious example of cages at football matches is Hillsborough. In trying to threaten that this is what we're heading towards, it completely ignores the repeated Government reports that firstly resulted in the fences being removed, and eventually found that the tragedy was the fault of the police in Sheffield and to a lesser extent the stadium management.

But because most people don't know that - certainly not the hysterical peanut gallery - they can draw a completely incorrect image of what these cages mean.

Now that I think about it... surely there's a Liverpool fan in Australia that should've pointed out that press conference from Scipione. Those Liverpool fans and the Hillsborough memorial groups are dogs of war whenever anyone misrepresents what went on. Murdoch already knows this when they nearly killed his newspaper.

 

[jatz14]

I liked your post, it was smart and well thought out. And its along the same lines as something that I've insisted to friends and family for years - news is only news in as much as there are pictures of it.

But I think the quoted bit defeats your argument. While I'm not using the word "conspiracy" as such - the notion that they target one sport when another sport would not be reported upon for the same occurrence is a "conspiracy" of sorts. If one sport is being "protected" while another sport is being shat on, that would also feed into a "conspiracy".

I don't know. You could be right. But the more I think about it, the voices that are shitting on football lead me to believe that there is a large element of xenephobia to this. I don't say racism, because I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt and say it's not deliberate or malicious per se - but it's xenephobic in that football borrows from foreign cultures that these people don't understand and find intimidating for no reason other than it's different to their norm. Which is why a drunken fight at the footy is just a drunken fight at the footy - it's a norm. But a drunken fight at the "sokkha" is evidence of thuggery.

I was not saying that there was no bias in play. As well as commercial factors driving the media to sensationalism, and a tendency to shy away from overly sensationalising AFL for a number of reasons, sports reporters report best on sports they know best. The less familiar the sport, the less nuanced and sympathetic the story.

Lots on this board see this as conspiracy. Conspiracy is not bias, and the distinction matters.

Non soccer journos sitting around a table plotting ways to bring down soccer, is a significantly different issue to journalists only superficially familiar with the sport writing unbalanced sensationalistic stories when they get the chance.

Different issues, with different solutions. Soccer reacting like it is the victim of conspiracy, when it is the victim of lowest common denominator journalism will feed the problem in my opinion.

I think soccer is reacting to the problem it perceives not the problem it has. If Wilson lacks understanding, balance and sympathy in reporting on soccer, is soccer reaction so far likely to build understanding, or sympathy, or balance.

I understand these may not be possible, but nothing done so far could have any effect other than to deepen and entrench the bias.

At the end of the day, this isn't going to matter to much to Wilson, its just a few stories in her career that got some controversy. It is soccer it matters to. It is soccer that needs to be the grown up, and it isn't showing a lot of signs of maturity.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[Saint]

Football fans are fenced off all through Central America. In UK and Scotland, they're separated by the thin blue line at most matches, you can see the rows and rows of fluoro vests between fans. So basically the geographic reference was wrong, but his point was that he didn't want to have to have a strong police presence at football matches, it's a waste of resources. Must be the easiest job in the journalistic world finding a copper to say something bad about minority groups, though.

The chip on the shoulder of A-League fans is the size of an elephant. If everyone who was offended by Alan Jones and/or News Ltd cracked it the way soccer fans have, then Australia would have descended into a Mad Max type scenario. They blow every slight issue way out of proportion and it appears that only A-League 'active supporters' are the ones stupid enough to boycott their own sport because of News Ltd. What a bunch of morons.

 

[peternorth]

Football fans are fenced off all through Central America. In UK and Scotland, they're separated by the thin blue line at most matches, you can see the rows and rows of fluoro vests between fans. So basically the geographic reference was wrong, but his point was that he didn't want to have to have a strong police presence at football matches, it's a waste of resources. Must be the easiest job in the journalistic world finding a copper to say something bad about minority groups, though.

The chip on the shoulder of A-League fans is the size of an elephant. If everyone who was offended by Alan Jones and/or News Ltd cracked it the way soccer fans have, then Australia would have descended into a Mad Max type scenario. They blow every slight issue way out of proportion and it appears that only A-League 'active supporters' are the ones stupid enough to boycott their own sport because of News Ltd. What a bunch of morons.

a good post.
a key aspect not discussed has been the use and power of WORDS. "They", "us", "we", "our"... it creates tension and division.

derwayne russell has been very much pro supporters in this mess. last night he said enough's enough, time for the fans to stop boycott threats and barrack for the team., and to "support THEIR game".

although on one hand its fantastic we have 4 professional footy codes in the country, it also hurts society because simpletons think it's every code for themselves. us vs them