Are bulldogs in for a lot of short term pain?

[Tbone McGraw]

So you're saying that they should be trading away first round picks for hard working players from other clubs and use the rest on VFL players?

Where did i say anything like that? Say they have 5 picks inside the top 40.Use them all and then pick up players like John mccarthy (for an example) with their late picks and in the pod and rookie draft. They should also get some picks trading sylvia and the like.

anyway i am not trying to pies off dogs supporters and apologise if i have.

 

[r_boy]

They're still near the beginning of their rebuild with a number of very good young players. Tracking well at this very early stage but the real tests start when they lose some of those leaders and experienced players that hold the team together like Boyd, Cross, Gia, Lake, Murphy, Morris, Hargrave, Gilbee and Cooney. Time will tell I guess.

 

[HighReeve]

I was at the game tonight and i agree with the dogs supporters re: good young players. the foundation is all there. i dont think the players really believed they could win tonight at least in the first half, but then realised they were right in it but were just not quite composed enough. the defence was outstanding, and the midfield battle was even. up forwards i thought they played rushed, and felt like they didnt feel comfortable as a unit yet.

 

[Ant_]

Where did i say anything like that? Say they have 5 picks inside the top 40.Use them all and then pick up players like John mccarthy (for an example) with their late picks and in the pod and rookie draft. They should also get some picks trading sylvia and the like.

anyway i am not trying to pies off dogs supporters and apologise if i have.

You're not pissing me off at all. Just trying to understand where you going with your Melbourne quick fix theory?

 

[PieBeast]

OH flipping LOL!

You've put veteran Bay 13 flogs to shame with this bit of gold.

It's becoming increasingly difficult to have a geniune laugh on the boards these days with the demise of TLC and Bay 13, you have brought it back tonight....

Congratulations and keep up the good work

Huh???

 

[Ant_]

Huh???

The Bay is now only available to those logged in. Lurking as a guest it would be gone. TLC is a shadow of itself since it's departure from BF.

 

[Superfist]

We derail the thread but posting a video of the 97 prelim isn't?

That wasn't the thrust of my post, was just free association. What is the point of saying someone's an idiot because they question whether the hype over a 19 y/o is justified?

Let's have a look at tonight's team:

B: Robert Murphy, Brian Lake, Ryan Hargrave
Good to great careers, none of whom are likely to be around when the Bulldogs next contend.

HB: Daniel Cross, Mark Austin, Patrick Veszpremi
See above re Cross. I'll admit I don't know much about Auston. Vesz is a bit of a journeyman now, hasn't lived up to previously considered potential, probably limited upside.

C: Zephaniah Skinner, Matthew Boyd, Justin Sherman
Too raw to judge. Great player and captain but again, aging. Journeyman, limited upside.

HF: Shaun Higgins, Jordan Roughead, Daniel Giansiracusa
Likely never going to live up to his potential, now bordering on being a whipping boy. Could be very good, but very raw. Declining.

F: Luke Dahlhaus, Ayce Cordy, Mitchell Wallis
Could be very good, developing nicely. Could be very good, but very raw. See earlier post, but at least should be consistently good.

Foll: William Minson, Ryan Griffen, Liam Picken
Playing well this year, but not a number 1 ruckman in a finals side. Elite (but i have an issue i know i won't get much traction on here). Great team man but limited.

I/C: Adam Cooney, Thomas Liberatore, Daniel Pearce, Tory Dickson
Injuries have cruelled him. See earlier post. First game. Would rather they play a younger player but has had a few good moments.

Sorry, but i'll repeat my earlier post - that is a poor balance. It is a team that would be better off bottoming out.

 

[jeemak]

I was at the game tonight and i agree with the dogs supporters re: good young players. the foundation is all there. i dont think the players really believed they could win tonight at least in the first half, but then realised they were right in it but were just not quite composed enough. the defence was outstanding, and the midfield battle was even. up forwards i thought they played rushed, and felt like they didnt feel comfortable as a unit yet.

These are pretty reasonable comments. Though I'd add, we were probably a touch hampered by consecutive six day breaks on the back of a game in hot and humid conditions in Darwin the week prior. We were flat in the first quarter, and it took us a while to wake up. I'm glad Geelong didn't convert early, as the tone of threads would be a lot harsher tonight if they had have been six goals up at quarter time, which they easily could have been.

 

[dogupya]

Huh???

Bay 13 isn't funny anymore

The other, I still haven't forgiven the Chief for!

 

[Tbone McGraw]

You're not pissing me off at all. Just trying to understand where you going with your Melbourne quick fix theory?

ok because you seem like a decent poster i will explain my theory.

Melbourne are screwed this year but they will get say 5 top 40 picks this year. Trade sylvia and other for whatever they can get. Bring in guys that want to play footy, like John mccarthy, but there are plenty of them out there.

dogs problem is they are too good a team to get those great draft picks. Can they trade higggins, gia, cooney as they won't be around for your next flag.

the reason melb are in a better place is because they have a bigger room for improvement in members and fans. If i am wrong, let me know.

 

[PieBeast]

The other, I still haven't forgiven the Chief for!

Just give him two weeks tops.

 

[dogupya]

Just give him two weeks tops.

He's already been instructed to go 'lie on himself' on numerous occasions....

 

[Igloo]

ok because you seem like a decent poster i will explain my theory.

Melbourne are screwed this year but they will get say 5 top 40 picks this year. Trade sylvia and other for whatever they can get. Bring in guys that want to play footy, like John mccarthy, but there are plenty of them out there.

dogs problem is they are too good a team to get those great draft picks. Can they trade higggins, gia, cooney as they won't be around for your next flag.

the reason melb are in a better place is because they have a bigger room for improvement in members and fans. If i am wrong, let me know.

5 or so picks in a single draft isn't going to fix Melbourne's problems. I'd imagine they will bring in a mix of youth and some around the age of 24/25, but it will take more than 1 draft.
They have very few players performing week in, week out, where as we have plenty (particularly our young guys).
They will be fine going into the future, no doubt. they've got talent on their list, but we are ahead of them in performance, as well as looking like progressing quicker.

That last part has me stumped. How are they in a better position on-field if they have "bigger improvement in membership in fans", which im not sure what you mean by.

 

[jeemak]

That wasn't the thrust of my post, was just free association. What is the point of saying someone's an idiot because they question whether the hype over a 19 y/o is justified?

Let's have a look at tonight's team:

B: Robert Murphy, Brian Lake, Ryan Hargrave
Good to great careers, none of whom are likely to be around when the Bulldogs next contend.

HB: Daniel Cross, Mark Austin, Patrick Veszpremi
See above re Cross. I'll admit I don't know much about Auston. Vesz is a bit of a journeyman now, hasn't lived up to previously considered potential, probably limited upside.

C: Zephaniah Skinner, Matthew Boyd, Justin Sherman
Too raw to judge. Great player and captain but again, aging. Journeyman, limited upside.

HF: Shaun Higgins, Jordan Roughead, Daniel Giansiracusa
Likely never going to live up to his potential, now bordering on being a whipping boy. Could be very good, but very raw. Declining.

F: Luke Dahlhaus, Ayce Cordy, Mitchell Wallis
Could be very good, developing nicely. Could be very good, but very raw. See earlier post, but at least should be consistently good.

Foll: William Minson, Ryan Griffen, Liam Picken
Playing well this year, but not a number 1 ruckman in a finals side. Elite (but i have an issue i know i won't get much traction on here). Great team man but limited.

I/C: Adam Cooney, Thomas Liberatore, Daniel Pearce, Tory Dickson
Injuries have cruelled him. See earlier post. First game. Would rather they play a younger player but has had a few good moments.

Sorry, but i'll repeat my earlier post - that is a poor balance. It is a team that would be better off bottoming out.

You missed Jones, who is going to be an excellent player. He's going to frustrate with his goal kicking, though I hope this improves with fitness and confidence. Kind of get the impression from this omission that you might not have seen the game tonight?

Agree with some of you points, but not with others. I think it's a bit strange you've stated Dickson shouldn't be played in lieu of younger players needing an opportunity, considering he was drafted on the basis of filling a specific need on our list due to his age and position.

Minson's improved significantly now he's the number one ruckman, and I'm very confident he and Roughead will be an excellent duo in a year or two.

You're seriously underrating Liberatore's value, which is a shame. Not everyone's quick, or tall or a good leap, though I think if you pay attention to him over the next year or so you'll see he is elite in decision making and with his hands. Same goes for Wallis, and if you don't think he's performing extremely well for a 13 game player then that's a concern.

To round things off, I'll say Higgins is defnitely our whipping boy. I'm glad, because we need another metrosexual to malign as a football club. I'm glad we've got him playing the hardest position on the field, rather than a talentless hack.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Wallis hasn't shown anywhere near as much as bulldogs give him credit for

The last five games Wallis has started on the field:
v Melbourne = 22 disposals
v GWS - 25 disposals, 1 goal
v North - 28 disposals, 1 goal
v Gold Coast - 25 disposals
v Geelong - 24 disposals, 1 goal

He is 19, in his second year and is averaging 25 disposals with a very high portion of them being contested in recent times, I'd be really interested to hear how you think he is travelling?

 

[Tbone McGraw]

5 or so picks in a single draft isn't going to fix Melbourne's problems. I'd imagine they will bring in a mix of youth and some around the age of 24/25, but it will take more than 1 draft.
They have very few players performing week in, week out, where as we have plenty (particularly our young guys).
They will be fine going into the future, no doubt. they've got talent on their list, but we are ahead of them in performance, as well as looking like progressing quicker.

That last part has me stumped. How are they in a better position on-field if they have "bigger improvement in membership in fans", which im not sure what you mean by.

ok regarding my last point i am talking about off field cash that can then improve things onfield like footy department.

Hope this doesn't sound arrogant but we are very lucky at collingwood with the cash we have. it makes a big difference.

can you answer me a serious question? where is the dogs finances going to improve from? I don't mean that offensively. As i have mentioned, i think every fan in the afl has a soft spot for the dogs. But i am sure that would piss off a lot of dogs fans

 

[PieBeast]

He's already been instructed to go 'lie on himself' on numerous occasions....

Sounds like a kananook bath is in order.

 

[StringyDog]

ok regarding my last point i am talking about off field cash that can then improve things onfield like footy department.

Not if you don't invest in the right areas or give players like Davey (who is contracted again next year) $500,000 contracts.

Melbourne is years away as nearly all their senior players are all either poor, nearly finished, sooking or about to leave club.

 

[Superfist]

The last five games Wallis has started on the field:
v Melbourne = 22 disposals
v GWS - 25 disposals, 1 goal
v North - 28 disposals, 1 goal
v Gold Coast - 25 disposals
v Geelong - 24 disposals, 1 goal

He is 19, in his second year and is averaging 25 disposals with a very high portion of them being contested in recent times, I'd be really interested to hear how you think he is travelling?

Only because you're interested I did not say he wasn't going to be good, i have said the opposite, I just don't think he's at the level a lot of your supporters say he is. I watched the north, geelong and melbourne games in full and only bits of the other two. I think he's an accumulator, not a game breaker. I'm not saying he won't be great, just that it's very early days, and i'd be more excited if his name was harley bennell.

 

[jeemak]

ok regarding my last point i am talking about off field cash that can then improve things onfield like footy department.

Hope this doesn't sound arrogant but we are very lucky at collingwood with the cash we have. it makes a big difference.

can you answer me a serious question? where is the dogs finances going to improve from? I don't mean that offensively. As i have mentioned, i think every fan in the afl has a soft spot for the dogs. But i am sure that would piss off a lot of dogs fans

You're lucky at Collingwood for a few reasons other than plain old cash. I can assure you of that.

Where are Melbourne's long term funds going to come from though? What advantages do they hold over the Dogs in this area? I'm happy to engage, before I do though, I want you to dig a bit deeper in to the topic to justify your claims.

 

[jeemak]

Only because you're interested I did not say he wasn't going to be good, i have said the opposite, I just don't think he's at the level a lot of your supporters say he is. I watched the north, geelong and melbourne games in full and only bits of the other two. I think he's an accumulator, not a game breaker. I'm not saying he won't be great, just that it's very early days, and i'd be more excited if his name was harley bennell.

A team full of Bennell's isn't going to be any more effective than a team full of Wallis's, is it?

You could argue with some justification that the former's type is rarer of course, and the two players' respective draft positions reflect that.

Though while Wallis is showing an ability to accumulate into his second season, and only in his 13th game, to suggest that's all he'll be is short sighted. Time will tell, I'm confident he'll be a bit more creative with his ball use as he develops.

 

[amer]

Their list looks in terrible shape to me. Cordy can play. Jones cannot. Agree with whoever said Libba is a plodder, but he's a good one. Will battle manfully at the clearances and develop into a quality midfielder.

But they just lack all over the ground for mine. I don't profess to know their list top to bottom, so things could and, invariably in footy, do change. But their exposed group doesn't look flash.

 

[Tbone McGraw]

You're lucky at Collingwood for a few reasons other than plain old cash. I can assure you of that.

Where are Melbourne's long term funds going to come from though? What advantages do they hold over the Dogs in this area? I'm happy to engage, before I do though, I want you to dig a bit deeper in to the topic to justify your claims.

Not exactly. sure what you mean by your last sentence but what i am saying is imo Melbourne have a much larger supporter base
And this is where your money comes from in memberships, apparel. and things like footy sponsorship.

Your reply

 

[Righteo]

Strange timing of this thread. I agree in part though that there is short term pain ahead whilst their talls continue to develop, the people writing them off completely are idiots though.

Collectively their best 3 forward prospects (Jones, Roughead and Cordy) have played well under 100 games, and it's usually in the 80-100 game bracket that a player (especially a tall) truly starts to develop some consistency. I won't bother going on about their smalls, they're already good and will continue getting better.

Comparing the Dogs to Melbourne is so insulting it's not funny.

 

[CAS79]

ok because you seem like a decent poster i will explain my theory.

Melbourne are screwed this year but they will get say 5 top 40 picks this year. Trade sylvia and other for whatever they can get. Bring in guys that want to play footy, like John mccarthy, but there are plenty of them out there.

dogs problem is they are too good a team to get those great draft picks. Can they trade higggins, gia, cooney as they won't be around for your next flag.

the reason melb are in a better place is because they have a bigger room for improvement in members and fans. If i am wrong, let me know.

Melbourne only a little while played in the Mathew Kruezer cup, the Tom Scully cup... Now there back for another dip. The very attitude your have in relation to this is what set them up for failure. Tank, play kids, lose the experienced players.

Melbourne should be on the climb bow, not festering on the bottom but yet there they are. The Dogs are rebuilding but look to be trying to improve their culture. They'll play finals again before Melbourne will.