Are Victorians holding football back?

[PowerForGood]

but that is exactly the point of many in this thread, whether it be Port Adelaide, North melbourne, Melbourne or whoever the crowds are not relevant and Port should expect the exact same handout that any Victorian club gets.
The AFL will continue to bail clubs out and that is what many are saying eventually should stop.

If you can't make your way in big business then operate your business in a industry that suits you budget, e.g WAFL, SANFL, VFL etc etc.

But in big business, if you are in premises that are too expensive for you, you can move to smaller premises that require less maintenance and cost you less, allowing you a chance to return to profitability. (refer SANFL and AAMI Stadium)

And in big business, if you are successful and the best in the league for a few years, you are allowed to attract and retain the best available talent to your organisation without hindrance. (refer Port Adelaide and Brisbane 2001-2004)

And in big business, depending on the barriers to entry, if you have the financial clout and can attract the right resources you can enter the industry and challenge the incumbents. (refer Tasmania vs AFL)

Alas, that's not the case in the AFL world. It thrives on (and paradoxically is limited by) the draft, the unequal draw, the Vic-centric adminstration, the salary cap, the available licences, the stadium deals and the TV interference.

 

[invinciBlues]

Given there were 6 or 8 clubs within a 15min drive of each other in the inner suburbs, yeah I think it's fair to say it's a Melbourne born game.

It wasn't born in the NT. Nor QLD. Nor the Antarctic territories. It was born and grew up in the cobbled cramped streets of Carlton, Fitzroy, Collingwood etc. It's now outgrown that, but I don't think you can re-write history based on today.

The first ten clubs are as follows:

Melbourne Football Club
St Kilda Football Club
Castlemaine Football Club
Geelong Football Club
Melbourne University Football Club
Ballarat Football Club
Sandhurst Football Club
Modbury Football Club
Williamstown Club
Sydney University Australian National Football Club

5 are "15 minutes" away from each other, the other 5 are either interstate or many hours away.

have a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_rules_football_clubs_by_date_of_establishment

There's a pretty even split between where the earliest clubs are. It grew up everywhere.

Like you say, you can't rewrite the history books.

 

[invinciBlues]

Ummm.. Do I need to explain what "Port Adelaide est 1870" means?

Pipe down junior unless you want me to explain what "Carlton Football Club est 1864" means.

 

[aneale]

Given there were 6 or 8 clubs within a 15min drive of each other in the inner suburbs, yeah I think it's fair to say it's a Melbourne born game.

It wasn't born in the NT. Nor QLD. Nor the Antarctic territories. It was born and grew up in the cobbled cramped streets of Carlton, Fitzroy, Collingwood etc. It's now outgrown that, but I don't think you can re-write history based on today.

Mate the South Australian Football Association (SAFA) which we now call the SANFL is older than the Victorian Football Association (VFA) which we now call the VFL. It doesn't matter if there were then 6-8 Clubs within the East Melbourne area. There was a SANFL in the expanses of Adelaide at the same time, and slight earlier than the 'cobbled' (ie hovel's) streets of the Jolimont district.

Try and know what history is before crapping on, you just look stupid.

 

[aneale]

Pipe down junior unless you want me to explain what "Carlton Football Club est 1864" means.

how about the "Modbury Football Club est 1862"?

 

[PowerForGood]

Pipe down junior unless you want me to explain what "Carlton Football Club est 1864" means.

Respect!

I was focusing more about "Fitzroy est 1883" and "Collingwood est 1892" - the other two clubs quoted as where "the game was invented".

 

[invinciBlues]

how about the "Modbury Football Club est 1862"?

You might want to scroll up, I'm kinda on the side of less Victorian teams and better representation on a national level.

I was just having a pot shot at the Port supporter for claiming PAFC is older than Carlton.

Respect!

I was focusing more about "Fitzroy est 1883" and "Collingwood est 1892" - the other two clubs quoted as where "the game was invented".

No worries. Misunderstanding on my part

 

[The Fireman]

The first ten clubs are as follows:

Melbourne Football Club
St Kilda Football Club
Castlemaine Football Club
Geelong Football Club
Melbourne University Football Club
Ballarat Football Club
Sandhurst Football Club
Modbury Football Club
Williamstown Club
Sydney University Australian National Football Club

5 are "15 minutes" away from each other, the other 5 are either interstate or many hours away.

have a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_rules_football_clubs_by_date_of_establishment

There's a pretty even split between where the earliest clubs are. It grew up everywhere.

Like you say, you can't rewrite the history books.

try as might you just can't, it started here and grew to a power here, we had players all over Australia coming here to play at the home of football, things can't grow everywhere , it must start somewhere.
I'll cut you some slack...you are a Carlton supporter.

 

[The Fireman]

lol that ol' chestnut

a true Chestnut.

 

[aneale]

try as might you just can't, it started here and grew to a power here, we had players all over Australia coming here to play at the home of football, things can't grow everywhere , it must start somewhere.
I'll cut you some slack...you are a Carlton supporter.

historical evidence shows that the game was played in SA and Tasmania at the same time if nor earlier than Victoria, in 1840. Victoria may have codified the rules nearly 20 years later but that doesn't mean it 'started' in Victoria per se, by the time they codified the rules they were aware of what was going on in other States.

 

[invinciBlues]

it must start somewhere.

That wasn't Melbourne. Try country Victoria - quite a ways away from Melbourne.

But you by all means just choose a start date that better suits your argument. Been hearing St Kilda fans prattle on about their "dominance" over Carlton for the past eight years - completely ignoring the fact that these recent games are some of the only times saints have better us in the history of the game

 

[The Fireman]

That wasn't Melbourne. Try country Victoria - quite a ways away from Melbourne.

But you by all means just choose a start date that better suits your argument. Been hearing St Kilda fans prattle on about their "dominance" over Carlton for the past eight years - completely ignoring the fact that these recent games are some of the only times saints have better us in the history of the game

So it started in Victoria ?

 

[invinciBlues]

So it started in Victoria ?

There's no definitive answer to that question. Why can't you just say Australia? Why do you have to have ownership of it? Its everyones game, now stop acting like a twat.

 

[The Fireman]

historical evidence shows that the game was played in SA and Tasmania at the same time if nor earlier than Victoria, in 1840. Victoria may have codified the rules nearly 20 years later but that doesn't mean it 'started' in Victoria per se, by the time they codified the rules they were aware of what was going on in other States.

really?
an extract from wikpedia. not that it is gospel but at least a start. If it stated it started somewhere else I would accept it.
As early as 1841, there is documented evidence of "foot-ball" being played in metropolitan and country Victoria as well as mention of early matches in Adelaide and southern Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania). While the exact rules being played in these matches are unknown they may have shared similarities and influences.
Now the way I read that is that it started in Victoria , not long after in 2 other states but the game had to start somewhere.
Victoria went on to codify it making it the home of the game.
Teams from other states joined in what was happening in Victoria to make it the AFL.
Some of you interstaters might not like it but that's just the way it is.
Why you can't accept the facts of history is anyones guess.

 

[The Fireman]

There's no definitive answer to that question. Why can't you just say Australia? Why do you have to have ownership of it? Its everyones game, now stop acting like a twat.

I don't have to do anything..just telling how it is which was a good thing because there are still some out there like yourself who is struggling with the history of the game.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

The MFC hasn't been a relevant organisation

Geez... a Port Power supporter actually trying to lecture fans of another club about relevance?? Or passion? A Port Power supporter actually trying to label another club as "useless"

Now I've seen everything

We're nearly debt-free now by the way, while your club are $5 million in debt and rising, and your crowd averages are the WORST in the AFL.

Our team is on the way up, while yours will almost certainly be bumping along the bottom next year, and for a long while to come, with GWS and GC17 sucking up the draft picks. Enjoy it G...

PS- Don't usually take aim at Port particularly, but I think this character deserved a few shots...

 

[PAFC_1870]

You're a ****ing ******** mate. Words can't describe wahtg I think of you right now (and I'm sure many others), **** off you prick

Toughen up princess.

If you can't handle a public forum, don't read it.

 

[aneale]

really?
an extract from wikpedia. not that it is gospel but at least a start.
As early as 1841, there is documented evidence of "foot-ball" being played in metropolitan and country Victoria as well as mention of early matches in Adelaide and southern Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania). While the exact rules being played in these matches are unknown they may have shared similarities and influences.

It doesn't say that at all. At the very least that says the game didn't start in Victoria prior to SA and Tasmania. Thanks . pretty much ends your argument. The fact is that the game evolved from immigrants, parts of those games were then codified in 1859, Victorians invented the game in about the same manner as they invented breathing.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Geez... a Port Power supporter actually trying to lecture fans of another club about relevance?? Or passion? A Port Power supporter actually trying to label another club as "useless"

Now I've seen everything

We're nearly debt-free now by the way, while your club are $5 million in debt and rising, and your crowd averages are the WORST in the AFL.

Our team is on the way up, while yours will almost certainly be bumping along the bottom next year, and for a long while to come, with GWS and GC17 sucking up the draft picks. Enjoy it G...

PS- Don't usually take aim at Port particularly, but I think this character deserved a few shots...

Can you please take away the Queen's birthday game which no doubt won't last much longer, out of yoru averages and let us know what your average crowds are?

And Port aren't anywhere near that debt.

And ontop of that, Port have a stadium deal costing us millions, a family and his dog rock up to your games and you would be having a money fight.

 

[The Fireman]

It doesn't say that at all. At the very least that says the game didn't start in Victoria prior to SA and Tasmania. Thanks . pretty much ends your argument. The fact is that the game evolved from immigrants, parts of those games were then codified in 1859, Victorians invented the game in about the same manner as they invented breathing.

It states early games, not earlier.
Bit early for the drink?
maybe you should check this out as well, your denial is what I have been talking about previously. Get rid of the chip mate.

http://www.onlymelbourne.com.au/melbourne_details.php?id=1543

 

[aneale]

It states early games, not earlier.
Bit early for the drink?
maybe you should check this out as well, your denial is what I have been talking about previously. Get rid of the chip mate.

http://www.onlymelbourne.com.au/melbourne_details.php?id=1543

yes early, which is not defined in that aticle or any article you can produce that states that the game started in Victoria 'earlier' than anywhere else. Given you couldn't even get yuour league of the ground before us, highly unlikely you lot were motivated to get the game any earlier either.

that site doesn't prove anything in fact it just parrots the same stuff

 

[invinciBlues]

I don't have to do anything..just telling how it is which was a good thing because there are still some out there like yourself who is struggling with the history of the game.

You seem to be of the opinion that one day there was nothing and the following day BANG! we got ourselves a game.

It doesn't work like that. Its an indigenous game, meaning it was here before your concepts of "states" came about.

From there, Wills was introduced to the game as a kid, and with the arrival of immigrants and convicts the game evolved in rules and popularity until a point was reached where it was decided that something should be put into writing so there could be a universal set of laws for clarity of all those playing it.

It just so happened that this occurred in Melbourne.

 

[The Fireman]

that site doesn't prove anything in fact it just parrots the same stuff

Well guess what buddy you are going to hear the same stuff for the rest of history.

Wherever you are in Australia walk up to anyone and ask them where is the home of Australian rules football...you won't like it but sometimes the truth can be hard to swallow.

 

[The Fireman]

You seem to be of the opinion that one day there was nothing and the following day BANG! we got ourselves a game.

It doesn't work like that. Its an indigenous game, meaning it was here before your concepts of "states" came about.

From there, Wills was introduced to the game as a kid, and with the arrival of immigrants and convicts the game evolved in rules and popularity until a point was reached where it was decided that something should be put into writing so there could be a universal set of laws for clarity of all those playing it.

It just so happened that this occurred in Melbourne.

Now was that so hard ?

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

And on top of that, Port have a stadium deal costing us millions

Fair enough - and I've mentioned that as an issue in other discussions too... like I said, I wouldn't ordinarily involve myself particularly in any potshots at Port, except for that "G" character taking his ludicrous shots at us, of course. Anyway, I'll let things return back to the main topic here...