Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Vdubs]

ristian perspective, if you ask for forgiveness it all goes away and you can continue transgressing, like a spoilt with doting parents who won’t actually impose discipline. Which may be why so many figures who claims to be devout Christians engage in - repeatedly - behaviours that transgress the biblical writings on sin (eg adultery, greed) and in some cases violate broader society’s sense of right and wrong (eg the behaviour of churches in enabling and covering up sexual abuse, especially of children under their pastoral care).

I get that many people have been damaged irreparably at the hands of so-called Christian institutions- I attended one of those.
But somehow, I have, over time, NOT let that sever my belief in and relationship with God.
It is not God who moves away from people, it's people with free will, and agendas and issues that depart from Him.

 

[carltonchelsea]

You strike me as judgemental, when you don't know anyone of us from ...and whether I'd actually lived for years as a non-believer.
Believers have seen THE LIGHT.
We do not need pages of theories and arguments to work out if God, Creation, Jesus can be proved.
I have said all along, FAITH is critical in the life of a Christian, and if we are in the minority and on the outer, so be it.
It does not edify my faith arguing the points, but when I read all your arguments, I truly believe you guys are stumbling in the dark, despite your well researched theories.

Oh I know christians, I was surrounded by them growing up, from most denominations.
What “LIGHT” have you seen, photons taking every possible route through the slit experiment, as an example?
God, Jesus, creation are all scientific questions, thus far they have all miserably failed in conclusion of the initial premise of the claims from their initial articles until 19/11/2024.
Faith is useless, it’s the worst part of the three idiotic tribal desert claims.
Which claims are we fumbling in the dark about?
All scientific theories are facts, you guys, Jews Christians and Muslims have nothing, nada, zip!
Here we go again with your denial delusion of the term “Theory” in science and what it requires to reach this status!
You’re so dull, you’re just not worth the time and effort!

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

We do not need pages of theories and arguments to work out if God, Creation, Jesus can be proved.
I have said all along, FAITH is critical in the life of a Christian, and if we are in the minority and on the outer, so be it.
It does not edify my faith arguing the points, but when I read all your arguments, I truly believe you guys are stumbling in the dark, despite your well researched theories.

If something needs faith before it deigns to reveal itself then it's not worth the paper it's printed on.

A lot of religion sounds more and more like a corporate team-building exercise.

 

[Total Power]

Believers have seen THE LIGHT.

Really? history tells us otherwise.

I have tried to rationally debate here to show you that the Bible is no book of morality or not the word of God. Yet you have swept all my arguments under the carpet and ran with your 'lives been changed' argument.

Record number of people are converting to Islam from Christianity.

So Allah must be real?

Do you even think twice before posting such silly loaded statements?

We do not need pages of theories and arguments to work out if God, Creation, Jesus can be proved.

So can Allah, Shiva and a host of other Gods. Are you saying those gods can't be proved and 4 billion people are wrong?

 

[Total Power]

I get that many people have been damaged irreparably at the hands of so-called Christian institutions- I attended one of those.
But somehow, I have, over time, NOT let that sever my belief in and relationship with God.
It is not God who moves away from people, it's people with free will, and agendas and issues that depart from Him.

How do you know what he wants? based on Bible, he wants a lot of immoral things which i assume you are not willing to do? so how can you be obedient and yet discard passages of Bible which are now rendered immoral/absurd?

 

[Total Power]

Sin is what stops you from being happy. Sin may give you pleasure but humanity has worked out over thousands of years what actually makes you happy and what stops you from gaining joy /happiness peace etc .

ugh this reminds me of my parents who read the bible all the time striving to "feel god". they're unhappy and depressed and their religion offers no actual joy for them, just the mental comfort of a potential afterlife. sad.

Since i am really happy in life, i assume i am sinless? glad we got that out of the way now.

 

[Total Power]

You strike me as judgemental, when you don't know anyone of us from ...and whether I'd actually lived for years as a non-believer.

Judgemental lol calling someone misguided, sinner etc etc and then calling others judgemental. You have no idea who i am, what i am and what i do, but based on your stone age philosophy you think you can call people names. He is doing the same thing and that is apparently upsetting you.

 

[Vdubs]

Judgemental lol calling someone misguided, sinner etc etc and then calling others judgemental. You have no idea who i am, what i am and what i do, but based on your stone age philosophy you think you can call people names. He is doing the same thing and that is apparently upsetting you.

not at all upset
plus I do know a lot about you

 

[Vdubs]

How do you know what he wants? based on Bible, he wants a lot of immoral things which i assume you are not willing to do? so how can you be obedient and yet discard passages of Bible which are now rendered immoral/absurd?

Good questions.
Never been asked before.
What do you think the answers are from an atheistic pov, an agnostic pov, a Christian pov?

 

[Total Power]

not at all upset
plus I do know a lot about you

You don't, yet you judge. You know me virtually only, which is not considered 'knowing'

 

[Total Power]

Good questions.
Never been asked before.
What do you think the answers are from an atheistic pov, an agnostic pov, a Christian pov?

If Bible is the book where he says what he wants, then we need to keep women locked away from public places, own slaves, stone masturbators, kill atheists....stop looking at women etc etc. This is absurd..simply cannot come from a 'God'.

From my own perspective, of view though the framework for morality comes from the collective views of the society an individual lives in. Personal morality comes from an individual's unique perspective on that framework.......Slavery was/is moral to those who considered it moral back in the Biblical days. It's certainly immoral to me, and seemingly so to the majority of people in most societies today, which is why it's considered generally immoral in a modern context.

The slave owners had no morals in that regard but nearly all were godbotherers. Some even believe it was their divine right to own slaves. So it basically proves morals do not come from a book or some by birth or they would have them.

It seems to me that the world is just a better place to be when we treat each other with respect and kindness. Plus, I just feel better about myself when I treat others that way.This doesn't seem complicated to me. We should treat each other well for the same reason you don't knock holes in the walls of your house - it just makes things worse for everybody.

If this is false, i am open to being proven wrong. Lets start raping and kill each other and treating everyone with disrespect, look down on people and see where it gets us? FWIW it has been tried many times, and hatred just gave us more hatred. Is the kind of society you wish to live in? As Confucius said (which Jesus ripped off) 'do unto others'...that's the only takeaway.

Copious amounts of books have been written about ethics and morality without any reference to metaphysical sources. Perhaps you should read a good introduction to ethics.

 

[Vdubs]

You don't, yet you judge. You know me virtually only, which is not considered 'knowing'

We all judge when typing replies on BF.
People we can't know, but don't want to offend.
Typing honest replies but trying to be respectful.
Judgement is all part of that.
I know many posters here have been violated, and that is not hidden in their posts, so judgement is needed there too.

 

[Total Power]

We all judge when typing replies on BF.
People we can't know, but don't want to offend.
Typing honest replies but trying to be respectful.
Judgement is all part of that.
I know many posters here have been violated, and that is not hidden in their posts, so judgement is needed there too.

Calling people sinners is not judging me, it's an insult which you don't get to do, just because you believe in a certain ideology. I was talking to an ex Christian friend of mine who converted into Islam and he used the word 'reverted' not converted. He believes we are all Muslim by birth but we choose not to be. So i told him he can speak for himself but he can't speak for me and i strongly detest him calling me a Muslim by birth.

Let me give you another example, homosexuals are sinful...blanket judgement! some of the nicest people i know (and he helps run my charity too) are homosexuals. But he is the worst sinner according to the Bible and will rot in hell according to your God. Why would i need to follow such examples of primitive stone age judgement?

I have no issues with your personal belief system but your mate BT made the same error as you, he thinks you can't love without god, cannot be happy without God. Such blanket judgemental mor0ns is the primary reason why your religion cop a lot of heat. I really AM happy in life and i love my family over any spiderman or superman that might exist,(not pleasure, HAPPY), so either you can be happy without god or i am without sin. Either way he's wrong.

 

[carltonchelsea]

We all judge when typing replies on BF.
People we can't know, but don't want to offend.
Typing honest replies but trying to be respectful.
Judgement is all part of that.
I know many posters here have been violated, and that is not hidden in their posts, so judgement is needed there too.

You’re obfuscating and avoiding questions, which makes you the judgemental one.
“I’m feeling judged and persecuted so I won’t answer your judgemental questions”, is all we ever get from you!
I asked you a very specific set of questions based upon your previous responses to my post.
You’re entire worldview from your personal christian perspective is one of persecution and threat from non belief and the scientific method.
I’m not judging you, one wouldn’t even require to have a formal education in psychology to understand this in regards to any of your responses.
It’s in every single post you make on this thread.
Yawn…..

 

[Vdubs]

How do you know what he wants? based on Bible, he wants a lot of immoral things which i assume you are not willing to do? so how can you be obedient and yet discard passages of Bible which are now rendered immoral/absurd?

Psalm 119. It is the longest chapter in the Bible and an extended acrostic poem (in Hebrew) about the beauty, majesty and perfection of God’s law and word.

Old Testament laws are still relevant for Christians. But ‘relevant’ is not the same as ‘applicable.’ Some apply, some don’t. But they’re all relevant.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished” (Matthew 5:17-18).

---

 

[faible]

Old Testament laws are still relevant for Christians. But ‘relevant’ is not the same as ‘applicable.’ Some apply, some don’t. But they’re all relevant.

Sounds a lot like 'I'll pick and choose which parts I feel like apply to me today' which isn't very nice to dear old God.

 

[liz]

Old Testament laws are still relevant for Christians. But ‘relevant’ is not the same as ‘applicable.’ Some apply, some don’t. But they’re all relevant.

---

Can you give some examples of OT laws that are relevant but not applicable?

And who gets to decide which ones are still applicable and which are not?

 

[Vdubs]

Can you give some examples of OT laws that are relevant but not applicable?

And who gets to decide which ones are still applicable and which are not?

We need to pay attention to what is happening with God’s law in general, and with certain laws in particular, as a part of the longer and evolving story between God and his people.

Further, Scripture interprets Scripture. Clearer passages interpret passages which are more obscure. This principle is evident in the Bible itself. We need to keep it in mind when we encounter passages which may seem unclear.

 

[Vdubs]

Sounds a lot like 'I'll pick and choose which parts I feel like apply to me today' which isn't very nice to dear old God.

In the Old Testament we are often reminded how God’s people failed to keep the covenant because they disobeyed the law. This was obviously very bad news.

In the New Testament something new happened. Here it is, and it is incredibly good news: Jesus fulfilled the terms of the covenant on our behalf. He perfectly kept the law which we failed to keep. He was without sin (Hebrews 4:15). Since we deserve punishment under a God who is both holy and just, Jesus took that punishment upon himself on the cross. He took the punishment for our disobedience.

In this way—and only in this way—we do in fact keep the covenant. Jesus fulfilled the terms on our behalf. He died as our substitute on the cross. His righteousness was imputed (or transferred) to his people. At the inaugural Last Supper, Jesus visibly demonstrated this for us with the bread and wine. His body and blood were broken and shed for us. In Luke 22:20 he explains: “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”

The way to gain access to these benefits is to trust in who Jesus is and what he has done for us. As a result, God gives us grace. What was sometimes called a “covenant of works” is now often referred to as a “covenant of grace" -God's Riches At Christ's Expense

 

[faible]

In the Old Testament we are often reminded how God’s people failed to keep the covenant because they disobeyed the law. This was obviously very bad news.

In the New Testament something new happened. Here it is, and it is incredibly good news: Jesus fulfilled the terms of the covenant on our behalf. He perfectly kept the law which we failed to keep. He was without sin (Hebrews 4:15). Since we deserve punishment under a God who is both holy and just, Jesus took that punishment upon himself on the cross. He took the punishment for our disobedience.

In this way—and only in this way—we do in fact keep the covenant. Jesus fulfilled the terms on our behalf. He died as our substitute on the cross. His righteousness was imputed (or transferred) to his people. At the inaugural Last Supper, Jesus visibly demonstrated this for us with the bread and wine. His body and blood were broken and shed for us. In Luke 22:20 he explains: “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.”

The way to gain access to these benefits is to trust in who Jesus is and what he has done for us. As a result, God gives us grace. What was sometimes called a “covenant of works” is now often referred to as a “covenant of grace" -God's Riches At Christ's Expense

So Jesus died some 2000 years ago, to appease God because humans are filthy sinners.

Sounds a lot like human sacrifice to me.

 

[liz]

We need to pay attention to what is happening with God’s law in general, and with certain laws in particular, as a part of the longer and evolving story between God and his people.

Further, Scripture interprets Scripture. Clearer passages interpret passages which are more obscure. This principle is evident in the Bible itself. We need to keep it in mind when we encounter passages which may seem unclear.

Gobbledygook.

No examples?

 

[Vdubs]

Gobbledygook.

No examples?

too many, as you are aware

 

[Vdubs]

So Jesus died some 2000 years ago, to appease God because humans are filthy sinners.

Sounds a lot like human sacrifice to me.

Yes,


the point being He resurrected and is alive

 

[faible]

Yes,


the point being He resurrected and is alive

Where is he? Bloke's 2000 years old, he's certainly incontinent by now.

 

[liz]

too many, as you are aware

I didn't ask for an exhaustive list, just a couple of examples.