Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Vdubs]

It was moderated. A great deal of material, from this thread alone, has been deleted and posters banned.

it was moderated after many complaints- there was a lengthy period,- like the first 5 years- of zero moderation.

 

[Roylion]

it was moderated after many complaints- there was a lengthy period,- like the first 5 years- of zero moderation.

That's why the report button exists.

 

[ManInTheArena]

If god existed and had supernatural powers, he/she could easily change the thread title

Very true, I did not consider ths.

 

[ManInTheArena]

Jeez what a lot of codswallop. Really hard to know where to begin, but suffice to say, your assertions that atheists hang around in groups waiting to mug believers, and that atheists need theists in order to identify as atheists, are simply wrong and undermine pretty much everything else you're saying. No idea what your agenda is other than that it's rather confused.

Saying something is codswallop and what I said is wrong without a reason isn't even a response, so unless you actually respond to my points I can't respond to you.

You've strawmanned me again in there too so unless you actually respond genuinely I'm going to have to conclude you're a nincompoop and ignore you.

 

[ManInTheArena]

Atheists did what.

Changed the title I assume.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

That's why the report button exists.

That button only works if you believe in moderation

 

[faible]

That button only works if you believe in moderation

I have faith in Dog.

 

[carltonchelsea]

As soon as you self identify, define, and categorise yourself, you limit yourself

If you say "I'm an atheist and I elevate fact and reason", then those are now your boundaries you are contained in. That's your box.

You're now stuck only considering the world within your own headset. The headset put on you by evolution, not realising on a moment to moment basis that none of what you experience is reality and therefore not fact. On top of that you're not even a speck in this whole arrangement and we don't even know what the arrangement is. There's 200 billion stars just in our galaxy and up to 2 trillion galaxies just in the observable universe. Where the hell are you, and by "you" what do you even mean? Your thoughts about yourself? What are thoughts? They probably only evolved so we could organise ourselves in a small-scale social society yet we cling to them like they're reality. Like our "reasoning" is important. Like we're important.

There's no meaning to you, no importance to you, and no meaning or importance to the theist, we are just "here" but can't even say where here is let alone cling to our "facts" made up with our "thoughts" to get some certainly of the "reality" we can only perceive through our little brains and five senses which evolved for us to pass on our genes, not so we could objectively and rationally understand reality. We don't experience s**t of reality. Daily we're walking around in an evolutionary made delusion thinking what we experience is reality.

All science can do is measure "that reality" and we're clever little f*ers for doing it and it's helped us pass on our genes (and is very useful), but it boxes us into our headset not what might be beyond it. I'm not talking about theism and gods made up with our thoughts either, that would be a regression, I'm talking about the fact that maybe we can't understand true reality with this limited brain. And it is severely limited. We're not much better than monkeys in the scheme of things yet we call ourselves intelligent and act intelligent like we're the centre of the universe when we're nothing, we're no "thing", because the "thing" we think we are is simply made up by our own brain and it's incessant evolutionary need to define everything, but at the same time without those limited brain made up definitions we are everything. We are the big bang, if the big bang can even be agreed as a "fact" or maybe someone will change it later. But whatever, we're made of the same s*t as everything else and our boundary is defined by ourselves and our sense of self which probably only evolved when we needed to move towards safety and away from danger. You can't avoid getting eaten by a predator if you don't know where "you" are. Worse still are the definitions within that "you", "I'm an atheist" being one of them but there are hundreds of others.

I could go on for a long time here but what I'm suggesting is that maybe defining yourself is limiting yourself if you look at what you're actually doing in the grand scheme of things with an understanding of what reality isn't (because we sure as hell don't know what it "is"). Bonus is that we wouldn't have a bunch of c*s walking around treating each other like s*t, and worst case starting wars, because they define themselves differently with their primitive little evolutionary constrained brains.

These are a lot of words to describe your false equivalences.
If I say I’m a guitarist, that doesn’t imply I can’t play drums, sing or play any other instruments.
If I say I’m a chippie, that doesn’t imply I can’t fabricate, weld, do basic plumbing or electrical.
Being a footy fan you should be able to grasp that several players on each team can swing forward, back, run through the guts and give a resting ruckman a chop out.
Using reason and logic is a damned sight better than pretending to know the answers before the questions are even asked, which is what most theists do.
You’re attempting to muddy the scientific method here, the fact that our evolutionary journey has allowed us to understand much of the macro and micro organisation of the universe is ****ing astounding and astonishing, given we were only ever evolved to realise medium sized bodies at medium speeds.

What do you mean “we don’t know what reality is….”?
On what level?
The classical mechanics of science still apply, newtons laws still work, that will never change, quantum physics has altered our understanding of the universe, but there are folks that understand this world quite well and are working on it, some are attempting to unify them!
It sounds like your having a bit of a tanty and giving the impression of the “we don’t know “everything” therefore implying we can’t know anything” presuppositional BS apologist argument.
Relax man, we got the best guys and girls working their collective arses off trying to get there….wherever that takes us!

 

[carltonchelsea]

By human definition, which is a delusion.

People keep saying the only time they use their identity as an atheist is when others impose their god on them. Realistically when does that happen? It doesn't happen to me ever, and I'd posit that you seek it out so you can fulfill your identity which is why you're here. I think you're making your own irritation and that's tied up in your "atheist" identity. I don't believe in gods and don't get the slightest bit irritated with those who do.

Not taking a particular interest in America recently?
When my boy was in primary school Tony Abbott thought it was a great to replace the student counsellors with the chaplaincy programme. This directly affected my boy.
Don’t tell me the religious want no power in the world I inhabit, you must live in a different reality to many of us, is that what you were implying a few posts ago?

 

[carltonchelsea]

Atheism is as primitive as pond slime .

There’s that Christian love again, nothing like it!

 

[carltonchelsea]

Simply not true. I don't worship anything*. I really don't. In fact I'm opposed to the notion of worship.



*Though I did have a bit of a crush on Buddy Franklin.

We all do mate, you’re not special, I met too, albeit briefly!

 

[carltonchelsea]

That button only works if you believe in Goderation.

We know!

 

[ManInTheArena]

These are a lot of words to describe your false equivalences.
If I say I’m a guitarist, that doesn’t imply I can’t play drums, sing or play any other instruments.
If I say I’m a chippie, that doesn’t imply I can’t fabricate, weld, do basic plumbing or electrical.
Being a footy fan you should be able to grasp that several players on each team can swing forward, back, run through the guts and give a resting ruckman a chop out.

I didn't say you couldn't live in more than one identity, but as a side note I'd argue no identity is really usefull if you take them seriously. It was useful for Arnold Schwarzenegger to "play" the Terminator, but if he thought he was the Terminator that would be a different and very painful story.

Back on the whole multiple identity thing though, if you say "I'm a midfielder" and they throw you forward, how will the identity "midfielder" psychologically limit you?

Of course identities are limiting - that's what they're designed to do. As soon as you define and catergorise it goes in "that box" which is inherantly limiting.

Using reason and logic is a damned sight better than pretending to know the answers before the questions are even asked, which is what most theists do.

A case in point is atheists keep bringing theists into the conversation and trashing them, even if its irrelevant like the above, because the identity "athiest" is defined by theism.

You’re attempting to muddy the scientific method here, the fact that our evolutionary journey has allowed us to understand much of the macro and micro organisation of the universe is ****ing astounding and astonishing, given we were only ever evolved to realise medium sized bodies at medium speeds.

It's amazing to us, but in reality it's meaningless. Not to be confused with unhelpful to passing on our genes such as mediciine and everything else, but ultimately meaningless.

What do you mean “we don’t know what reality is….”?

We understand some of the mechanics of "this", but don't really know what "this" is or where "this" is or where "we" are in "this". You can't say we're over here, orbiting around one of 300 sextillion stars (at the very least) in a universe we don't know where it is or ends, as an organism that evolved to experience that speck only to the extent favourable to reproductive success (we experience less than 1% of what is really there) and then say we "know" what reality is. We simply don't. We experience a very, very, very limited mirage of reality.

On what level?
The classical mechanics of science still apply, newtons laws still work, that will never change, quantum physics has altered our understanding of the universe, but there are folks that understand this world quite well and are working on it, some are attempting to unify them!

Some humans have worked out in small part how the universe "works" through classical physics, and I admire your enthusiasm, but they're not even close to understanding quantum physics.

Even if they did, that doesn't mean they know what reality is. Understand how something works and what it is are two different things. If you lived your whole life through a VR headset and worked out how the programming worked, the ones and zeros, you'd still have no idea what reality was.

We don't know sh* about where we are, we only know a small bit about how it works.

It sounds like your having a bit of a tanty and giving the impression of the “we don’t know “everything” therefore implying we can’t know anything” presuppositional BS apologist argument.

Not at all. I think being realistic about ourseleves is the best way forward as a species. We're not special or intelligent or meaningful outside of our own delusion about ourselves. We evolved to think all that to pass on genes.

An example is Elon Musk wanting to go to mars because it's so important that we "save" consciousness. Why? the universe is meaningless. Consiousness has no meaning or importance because "meaning" and "importance" are human generated. So it all ends up circular.

All of this self-importance has been nothing but destructive, but even then, that's my own deluded human meaning. There is nothing outside of our mind judging what "destructuve" is or is not. Everything just "is".

Relax man, we got the best guys and girls working their collective arses off trying to get there….wherever that takes us!

I'm totally relaxed over here with no identities and knowing nothing means anything and isn't important. Couldn't be more relaxed, which paradoxically is "happiness".

 

[Vdubs]

it was moderated after many complaints- there was a lengthy period,- like the first 5 years- of zero moderation.

Interesting the tolerance observed in this thread to whatever was dished up, whereas in any other thread, particularly if it's about a team having just lost, you can hardly sneeze without a sanction.
I only mention it because it was ASK a Christian, not ATTACK whatever was posted by a Christian. Clearly, it has not caused my departure, much to many posters' annoyance, but that clearly was the intent.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

unless you actually respond genuinely I'm going to have to conclude you're a nincompoop and ignore you.

Please do.

I did respond genuinely, and I genuinely CBF going through every single wrong assertion in your long post when you then simply claim I’m “strawmanning” you.

Have you noticed I’m not the only one on here having trouble grasping what on earth you’re talking about?

Maybe I’m not the problem. Maybe.

 

[Roylion]

I only mention it because it was ASK a Christian, not ATTACK whatever was posted by a Christian.

If you make claims to truth on a public discussion board without robust evidence that supports that claim, do you expect what you claim not to be challenged?

 

[ManInTheArena]

I did respond genuinely, and I genuinely CBF going through every single wrong assertion in your long post when you then simply claim I’m “strawmanning” you.

At least pick one assertion and point out how it's wrong. Just replying back that I'm wrong with no substance is no different than a theist doing the same thing to you.

You've strawmanned twice, if it was a genuine mistake fair enough.

Have you noticed I’m not the only one on here having trouble grasping what on earth you’re talking about?

Maybe I’m not the problem. Maybe.

No I haven't noticed it, but I wouldn't be surprised if others weren't grasping it either. It took me years.

Not grasping something means nothing about the truth of it. Most of the population don't grasp complex aspects of quantum physics, but that doesn't mean quantum physicists are wrong.

Again that's a logical fallacy and atheists are meant to be all over that?

 

[Total Power]

it was moderated after many complaints- there was a lengthy period,- like the first 5 years- of zero moderation.

Yes attacks usually came from Christians, i was called a cannibal, subhuman due to my indigenous heritage. Apparently we ate each other and worshipped the devil till Christianity arrived. The poster was banned.

You have made this thread about me and Roy for so many years, cause you simply are out of depth. If you wish to contribute you can stay, orelse the question arises why are you here even?

 

[Boston tiger]

The church by and large now acknowledges science's superiority but yet still pretends its explanations of the origin of things is somehow also valid. The very definition of a state of denial.

The leopard is the fastest land mammal on earth .
Water freezes at 0 Celsius degrees.
The Catholic priest that came up with the Big Bang Theory says high .

 

[Vdubs]

Yes attacks usually came from Christians, i was called a cannibal, subhuman due to my indigenous heritage. Apparently we ate each other and worshipped the devil till Christianity arrived. The poster was banned.

You have made this thread about me and Roy for so many years, cause you simply are out of depth. If you wish to contribute you can stay, orelse the question arises why are you here even?

Are you for real? Nobody needs your permission to post here or any thread. My reasons for being here are my reasons. "Me and Roy" hey...

the attacks come from you on a daily basis when it was the Christian thread, but as it's how you communicate, it's just accepted.

In a thread called Ask a Christian, no practicing Christian is out of depth.

 

[Total Power]

The leopard is the fastest land mammal on earth .
Water freezes at 0 Celsius degrees.
The Catholic priest that came up with the Big Bang Theory says high .

Yes, he did... and he specifically asked the Pope NOT to make pronouncements about it being compatible with scripture, which the Pope proceeded to do anyway.

 

[Total Power]

Are you for real? Nobody needs your permission to post here or any thread. My reasons for being here are my reasons. "Me and Roy" hey...

I never said you need anyones permission, i am saying your presence here adds ZERO VALUE to the discussion, this is a fact.

the attacks come from you on a daily basis when it was the Christian thread, but as it's how you communicate, it's just accepted

Really? care to provide some examples? your example is in the last page...unable to answer my question you made it about me. The only time i have a go at you is when you don't reply to the subject in hand and make rant along the lines of 'lives been changed'. 'you are an unbeliever' blah blah...without addressing the points i made in my thread. So frustrating dealing with you. You attacked Roy multiple times (and his posting style) cause you are unable to answer again.

Which leaves me with the question again, aren't you ashamed that you are completely out of depth?

 

[Vdubs]

If you make claims to truth on a public discussion board without robust evidence that supports that claim, do you expect what you claim not to be challenged?

As I have said ad nauseum, practicing Christians do not need your sort of robust evidence, do not seek it, and have enough evidence for the reality of Jesus in their lives to continue to live as they do.

 

[Total Power]

As I have said ad nauseum, practicing Christians do not need your sort of robust evidence, do not seek it, and have enough evidence for the reality of Jesus in their lives to continue to live as they do.

what sort is that? Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs all claim to have 'godly' experience. How is their experience different to yours? unfortunately you do not know what evidence means. Personal anecdotes are not evidence (of any sort). If you believe in something it's mostly like to be true, for you. Just read the millions of UFO and alien abduction claims. All of them are lying?

 

[Vdubs]

I never said you need anyones permission, i am saying your presence here adds ZERO VALUE to the discussion, this is a fact.


Really? care to provide some examples? your example is in the last page...unable to answer my question you made it about me. The only time i have a go at you is when you don't reply to the subject in hand and make rant along the lines of 'lives been changed'. 'you are an unbeliever' blah blah...without addressing the points i made in my thread. So frustrating dealing with you. You attacked Roy multiple times (and his posting style) cause you are unable to answer again.

Which leaves me with the question again, aren't you ashamed that you are completely out of depth?

Very privileged to be a Christian- not all are people are so fortunate- and very proud of what Christianity stands for, despite your doom and gloom prophesies about its future.
COVID-19 led me here.
WW3 and Trump will keep me here a little longer, fwiw- that should be the real talking issue, not this theoretical garbage you keep dredging up.