Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Total Power]

For you Total Power
10. no I don't

So you think other god's exist????

9. no I don't

You argued against evolution multiple times. You also said no amount of geology, history archaeology will change your mind.

8. I do believe in the Trinity. Full stop.

Yes and Trinity is polytheism. Period.

• God the father is not god the son or God the Holy Spirit
• God the son is not God the father or God the Holy Spirit
• God the Holy Spirit is not God the son or God the father

Why would Jesus tell people not to worship him and worship god only? Trinity is polytheism.

Answer me this, on the cross when he was dying why was he asking this entity to forgive him? it's CLEARLY not him, as Bart Ehrman said, Jesus himself never said he is god in the NT. He is a prophet of God but NOT GOD. Hence your faith is all bulldust.

Do you think this character OT is the same as Jesus?

7. Not at all true

It is somewhat true. You have swept the attrocities of OT under the carpet saying 'who are we to question God'. Yet YWH is the worst god that's out there.

6. I never laugh at any other belief systems

You did point out the absurdity of Islam once, but ok i will give you this one.

5. I have zero problem with establishing the age of Earth

The point isn't that, the point is denial in science, so this is a tick.

4. Not true- have said countless times here that I believe God will judge each person on the sincerity of their faith and obedience, and I do not know what Heaven and Hell will be like.

It's written in your Bible, what happens to the unbelievers. You do not believe in your own book? This is the point hitchens made, you are judged on the basis of fanclub membership, not actual work. You believe in this, hence this is a tick.

3. Absolutely incorrect

How many times have you said you do not care in what science, biology, history has to say? sermons, prayers, church gatherings , anecdotal evidence, this is all you need. This is a big tick,.

2. I do not define a success rate at all, but there is ZERO doubt that God answers all sincere prayers. How He answers them does not always cajole us immediately, and more often than not, and that teaches us patience and perseverance.

Oh really, so you think God is answering those prayers about stopping wars or the first christians dying in their homeland in Palestine right now?? or those prayers are not sincere, only first world country prayers are sincere?

massive tick again

1. I certainly am proud to be a Born Again Christian, and yes, my life has changed dramatically for the better, and I could not give a rats how much anyone else thinks they know or read the Bible etc.

yep, so this is a tick too.


9/10

Fundie

 

[Roylion]

8. I do believe in the Trinity. Full stop.

I see no reason to accept a concept like the Trinity as actual fact.

There is no evidence that Jesus was the son of God and to believe so is obviously an act of faith. Nor is there any supporting evidence of Jesus' resurrection from the dead after crucifixion.

The concept of the Trinity was used to defend the church against charges of worshiping two or three gods while preaching monotheism. For example, 1 John 5:7 that describes "the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit" was a later addition by a copyist that was only to be found in later Latin manuscripts and not in earlier Greek manuscripts, the oldest of which has survived, has been dated to about AD 300. The Epistle of John, in which the verse eventually appeared, was written at the earliest between AD 95 and 110 (at least sixty years after the execution of Jesus)

 

[Total Power]

I see no reason to accept a concept like the Trinity as actual fact.

There is no evidence that Jesus was the son of God and to believe so is obviously an act of faith. Nor is there any supporting evidence of Jesus' resurrection from the dead after crucifixion.

The concept of the Trinity was used to defend the church against charges of worshiping two or three gods while preaching monotheism. For example, 1 John 5:7 that describes "the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit" was a later addition by a copyist that was only to be found in later Latin manuscripts and not in earlier Greek manuscripts, the oldest of which has survived, has been dated to about AD 300. The Epistle of John, in which the verse eventually appeared, was written at the earliest between AD 95 and 110 (at least sixty years after the execution of Jesus)

Even after that, it's clearly not the same entity.

when Jesus was placed on the Cross this is what he said.

"My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?"

so if he was the God who was he praying to , unless you believe he was subservient to someone greater than him.

"Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. ?

if he was God then he should have said I have forgiven thee for you do not know what you do.

 

[Boston tiger]

I see no reason to accept a concept like the Trinity as actual fact.

There is no evidence that Jesus was the son of God and to believe so is obviously an act of faith. Nor is there any supporting evidence of Jesus' resurrection from the dead after crucifixion.

The concept of the Trinity was used to defend the church against charges of worshiping two or three gods while preaching monotheism. For example, 1 John 5:7 that describes "the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit" was a later addition by a copyist that was only to be found in later Latin manuscripts and not in earlier Greek manuscripts, the oldest of which has survived, has been dated to about AD 300. The Epistle of John, in which the verse eventually appeared, was written at the earliest between AD 95 and 110 (at least sixty years after the execution of Jesus)

“The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

“The Didache

“After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. . . . If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).

Ignatius of Antioch

“[T]o the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

“For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).

Just because they didn’t name it ..doesn’t mean they didn’t believe it.

 

[Total Power]

“The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

“The Didache

“After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. . . . If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).

Ignatius of Antioch

“[T]o the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

“For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).

Just because they didn’t name it ..doesn’t mean they didn’t believe it.

None of it claims what you think it does, despite your copy paste. If you read the NT it consistently identifies the Father as the only true God. Paul says "there is one God, the Father" not "there is one God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit." Whenever there is a declaration of the oneness of God, it is always in reference to the Father and only to the Father.

Jesus himself said it multiple times that do not worship me, worship the father. Trinity was not a concept till the 4th century.

It doesn't look like you believe in the Bible! good on ya , maybe you have seen the light finally.

 

[Roylion]

“The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

This is not the doctrine of the Trinity. The doctrine of the trinity is mentioned once in the Bible in 1 John 5:7. And that was a later addition by a copyist that was only to be found in later Latin manuscripts.

Jesus himself did not claim to be a divine being and his earthly followers did not see him as divine. The turning point occurred when they came to believe he had been raised from the dead. Jesus' followers believed that God had taken him (body and all) up to heaven. And of course anyone taken up to heaven was made divine: they live with the gods, or God, as an immortal being, no longer a mere mortal. So Jesus wasn't exalted to be divine, but instead his followers asserted that he had been born as a divine being. Later on they came to think Jesus existed before his birth and was a divine being with God who became human. So he had been in the beginning with God and created the universe.

Once Christians began to say Jesus was God, and they already knew that his Father was God, and they also wanted to insist there was just One God, they had an obvious theological and logical problem on their hands, they came up with the Trinity.

 

[Vdubs]

So you think other god's exist????

I have noted many other gods time after time. There is one Creator God.

You argued against evolution multiple times. You also said no amount of geology, history archaeology will change your mind.

Garbage- have said many times that God has created all things and people, but with that there has been the evolutionary process- stop misrepresenting.

Yes and Trinity is polytheism. Period.

God the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit- a triune God.

• God the father is not god the son or God the Holy Spirit
• God the son is not God the father or God the Holy Spirit
• God the Holy Spirit is not God the son or God the father

Why would Jesus tell people not to worship him and worship god only? Trinity is polytheism.

You do not quote in context. Look hard enough and you will find many times whrere Jesus says he is the Son of God. Why do you think he was crucified? The fact that you even ask that question is why Christianity makes no sense to you. We as followers of Jesus know and believe He is the way to God, a human who was born to save all men. Not that all men will accept his offer. But that's not my issue.

Answer me this, on the cross when he was dying why was he asking this entity to forgive him? it's CLEARLY not him, as Bart Ehrman said, Jesus himself never said he is god in the NT. He is a prophet of God but NOT GOD. Hence your faith is all bulldust.

Jesus was indeed a man. He was resurrected- rose from dead. He is God's human form. Now that He is with God, we have his Holy Spirit.God can do all things- giving a human form of Himself is WAY beyond your mind, but don't discount it until you can prove it didn't happen. It's not up to believers to prove anything- we have what we need- how about you definitively prove Jesus never existed, was never crucified, did not rise from his death....

Do you think this character OT is the same as Jesus?

Ridiculous question. Jesus is who he was, a man that was born 2000+ years ago. God had not given mankind his ultimate salvation until Jesus was born.

It is somewhat true. You have swept the attrocities of OT under the carpet saying 'who are we to question God'. Yet YWH is the worst god that's out there.

There is only one true Creator God.

You did point out the absurdity of Islam once, but ok i will give you this one.

Never.

The point isn't that, the point is denial in science, so this is a tick.

I do not deny science. You are so bizarrely wrong there, but it's not worth getting into.

It's written in your Bible, what happens to the unbelievers. You do not believe in your own book? This is the point hitchens made, you are judged on the basis of fanclub membership, not actual work. You believe in this, hence this is a tick.


How many times have you said you do not care in what science, biology, history has to say? sermons, prayers, church gatherings , anecdotal evidence, this is all you need. This is a big tick

not history, not science, not biology- we are all part of this world.I expect fierce opposition to what we believe, it's been written about. If I feared it or abhorred it, why would I front up to your questions time and again. Just because I can't answer them the way you want, does not mean

Oh really, so you think God is answering those prayers about stopping wars or the first christians dying in their homeland in Palestine right now?? or those prayers are not sincere, only first world country prayers are sincere?

Yes, He is. Time will tell. Trump to the rescue.

massive tick again



yep, so this is a tick too.


9/10

Fundie

You use the term fundie as if it's an insult- if I was indeed a fundie, which is near impossible in this era, I would not be embarrassed about it. I doubt anybody can be a 100% fundamentalist today, but great for them if they can. Better people than I am.

 

[Roylion]

Why do you think he was crucified?

He was crucified as a criminal by the Romans. Most likely for sedition.

Jesus was indeed a man. He was resurrected- rose from dead.

No he didn't.

He is God's human form.

He is no more that, than any other human who has ever lived on the planet.

Now that He is with God, we have his Holy Spirit.God can do all things- giving a human form of Himself is WAY beyond your mind, but don't discount it until you can prove it didn't happen.

Why not discount it? There is no supporting evidence for your extraordinary claim. Why believe it in that case?

The process by which early Christians came to view Jesus as 'God' can be quite readily explained.

did not rise from his death....

No human that has ever lived has risen physically from the truly dead. That includes the figure called Jesus.

There is only one true Creator God.

There is no supporting evidence for that claim.

 

[Total Power]

I have noted many other gods time after time. There is one Creator God.

Which is your god only? hence my point is correct..you do not believe in any other god but yours. So tick.

Garbage- have said many times that God has created all things and people, but with that there has been the evolutionary process- stop misrepresenting.

Rubbish, you said evolution is false, do you want me to dig up that argument? healing power of the body is so good, omg, that cannot be seen anywhere else. You don't even factor in the fact that healing process in huimans is not even good compared to many other species.

God the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit- a triune God.

You do not quote in context. Look hard enough and you will find many times whrere Jesus says he is the Son of God. Why do you think he was crucified? The fact that you even ask that question is why Christianity makes no sense to you. We as followers of Jesus know and believe He is the way to God, a human who was born to save all men. Not that all men will accept his offer. But that's not my issue.

I have answered this question time and time again. You realize crucifixation was common practices those days yes? but none crucified was given a tomb. He was accused of blasphemy, was rightly crucified under the law of land.

What's there to see? vast majority of the scholars agree with me.

Jesus was indeed a man. He was resurrected- rose from dead. He is God's human form. Now that He is with God, we have his Holy Spirit.God can do all things- giving a human form of Himself is WAY beyond your mind, but don't discount it until you can prove it didn't happen. It's not up to believers to prove anything- we have what we need- how about you definitively prove Jesus never existed, was never crucified, did not rise from his death....

hahahahah he is wirth god...holy shit, what a giveaway, i am right then, he is not the father. God cannot be with god.

God by definition is all knowing. Jesus in human form wasn't all knowing. He didn't know many things, like the future. So he wasn't god.

Next: he was asking people not to worship him
Then he was asking himself (his father) about things.
Then was admitting he is not his father by saying his father is GREATER than him.
Then he was praying to his father.


Even if i admit he was human was restricted he should STILL BE GOD.

You are basically admitting he was lesser than god.

GOOD!

Look at Krishna, he admitted he was God and he didn't pray to him. He showed Arjuna the entire universe!

Maybe do some reading before flapping your gums?

Oh thats right you have NFI about any other religions.

Ridiculous question. Jesus is who he was, a man that was born 2000+ years ago. God had not given mankind his ultimate salvation until Jesus was born.

Rubbish. So you claim, there's no evidence of this happening. Plus there are other claimaints too, like mithra, sai baba , krishna, who came before Jesus.

There is only one true Creator God.

So other gods are false? you keep proving my point.

Never.

I do not deny science. You are so bizarrely wrong there, but it's not worth getting into.

You have time and time again said you do not care about what history, archeology, geology, biology has to say in regards to faith. How is that not denial of science?

you are in denial.

Yes, He is. Time will tell. Trump to the rescue.

hahaha! please mate, 30,000 children dead! you won't get innocent lives back again but god is busy fixing your life and those around you, suffering from first world problems.

Narcissist much?

You use the term fundie as if it's an insult- if I was indeed a fundie, which is near impossible in this era, I would not be embarrassed about it. I doubt anybody can be a 100% fundamentalist today, but great for them if they can. Better people than I am.

You are a classic fundie.

 

[Vdubs]

Which is your god only? hence my point is correct..you do not believe in any other god but yours. So tick.

I believe in God. That is all.

Rubbish, you said evolution is false, do you want me to dig up that argument? healing power of the body is so good, omg, that cannot be seen anywhere else. You don't even factor in the fact that healing process in huimans is not even good compared to many other species.

I have never said that evolution is false, but you can not answer the issue of it all starting from nothing. God has created all things. Evolution has been involved. That is undeniable. It is the very beginning I take issue with you.

I have answered this question time and time again. You realize crucifixation was common practices those days yes? but none crucified was given a tomb. He was accused of blasphemy, was rightly crucified under the law of land.

'Blasphemy- how so?

What's there to see? vast majority of the scholars agree with me.




hahahahah he is wirth god...holy shit, what a giveaway, i am right then, he is not the father. God cannot be with god.

Jesus existed, you seem to agree. Where do you think he is now?

God by definition is all knowing. Jesus in human form wasn't all knowing. He didn't know many things, like the future. So he wasn't god.

Next: he was asking people not to worship him
Then he was asking himself (his father) about things.
Then was admitting he is not his father by saying his father is GREATER than him.
Then he was praying to his father.


Even if i admit he was human was restricted he should STILL BE GOD.

You are basically admitting he was lesser than god.

As a human, He was as Godly as possible. His time on earth was brief. Mission accomplished for now.He is God.

GOOD!

Look at Krishna, he admitted he was God and he didn't pray to him. He showed Arjuna the entire universe!

Maybe do some reading before flapping your gums?

Oh thats right you have NFI about any other religions.






Rubbish. So you claim, there's no evidence of this happening. Plus there are other claimaints too, like mithra, sai baba , krishna, who came before Jesus.




So other gods are false? you keep proving my point.

Other gods of course are false, based on the premise of a Creator God of all things.

You have time and time again said you do not care about what history, archeology, geology, biology has to say in regards to faith. How is that not denial of science?

Faith does not rely on man-made science, geology etc. but there are geological manuscripts pointing to Jesus .

you are in denial.



hahaha! please mate, 30,000 children dead! you won't get innocent lives back again but god is busy fixing your life and those around you, suffering from first world problems.

Narcissist much?

Coming from you, wow

You are a classic fundie.

As if you have a clue.. You think classic fundies come onto a thread like this- you sir have zero insight.

 

[Total Power]

I believe in God. That is all.

Your god - which makes you a fundamentsalist.

Why is Krishna not the right God? ask my mum she will school you in this. Atleast he was more real than Kristos.



He was God on earth too. Read the Hindu texts, Jesus story is not unique. So you lose, AGAIN!

I have never said that evolution is false, but you can not answer the issue of it all starting from nothing. God has created all things. Evolution has been involved. That is undeniable. It is the very beginning I take issue with you.

Evolution doesn't require god, which is why death and decay is rife in nature. Species are born and species die out. How else would you know 99% of the species that ever existed died out.

If this was 'created', this wouldn't have happened. No specie exists in it's final form, we are all evolving and we will all die out.

Intelligent design is not science, its a hoax.

'Blasphemy- how so?

Calling himself a Messiah and he tried to change their political system - they feared an unrest and civil uprising.

But the story itself is false cause:

There's been atleast 15 claims mentioned by Philo about people claiming to be the Messiah during the time of Pilate, all brutally murdered without trial. What is so special about a small cult leader?

Jesus existed, you seem to agree. Where do you think he is now?

Same place as Christopher Hitches. Ceased to exist.

As a human, He was as Godly as possible. His time on earth was brief. Mission accomplished for now.He is God.

Yet in the entire Bible he never claims to be God, only his spokesperson like you do.

He wasn't Godly as at all, I told you he said his father is GREATER than him. He is admitting he is not the father.

He is saying DO NOT PRAY to me (which is what you guys ended up doing anyway).

His own words, which you do not believe.

It doesn't get clearer than this.

Other gods of course are false, based on the premise of a Creator God of all things.

Krishna is false? say that to 1.2 billion Hindus. Christianity tried to takeover India and failed. Yet lots of Christians are converting to Krishna-ism. You realise ISKON in Australia has over 70,000 members alone? vast majority of them are ex-Christians?

Faith does not rely on man-made science, geology etc. but there are geological manuscripts pointing to Jesus .

Really? what geological manuscript would that be? Pray tell. Far far more evidence points to Krishna and people wrote about him during his time too. Plenty of scholars. Who mentioned Jesus during his time? NO ONE! yep!

checkmate!

Theres zero evidence that this character existed outside of the 4 gospels, which is why no one mentions him till like 100 years after this death.

Stop lying.

Coming from you, wow

How am i a Narccissit? I am not self absorbed like you or your God.

Prayers dont work. The land of Jesus is on fire and yet he seems to be answering the prayers of white people. Hundreds of prayer experiments been done to prove prayers do not work (cause no one is listening). But apparently some personal shit is more important and evidence to you than real world issues which needs immediately solving.

Why can't Jesus give Putin a heart attack? or why can't Jesus just ask Israel to stop???

Oh wait he must exist first. He is too busy appeasing the likes of you.

You are all about MY god, MY religion, MY beliefs...more me me me me. All other Gods are obviously false.

JOIN MY CLUB, ACCEPT ME orelse....how is that not narcissism..

Here's an advice VD: Get a dog, he will give you and unconditional loyalty
this is why GOD is the opposite of Dog. My dog makes me happy, cause he loves me, no matter what i do to this, he loves me. He doesn't want recognition. This is true love. Your deity will send you to hell if you don't love him.

Before you say 'you don't know that'..Bible clearly stats those who don't believe will be cast in a sea full of fire. Your own book! mr cherry picker.

As i said, get your hands off it.

As if you have a clue.. You think classic fundies come onto a thread like this- you sir have zero insight.

Yep classic fundies come to a thread like this and reply with anecdotes as evidence.

Fundies do not what makes an evidence. Already proven you click 9 out of 10 boxes.

Nothing to be ashamed about, you are what you are.

 

[Rookie]

Gilgamesh is where the Genesis was copied from. It's a significant part of their belief system.

Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.

ZOROASTRIANISM - JewishEncyclopedia.com

The early Christians were accused of copying Mithraism.but It's early Christian theologians who pointed the similarities, not me. They accused Mithras of copying Christianity, when Mithraism came first. It was the main religion where Paul came from. Hence there is a similarity, you can accuse Mithras of copying Christianity, but similarity clearly exists.

Zoroastrianism had a profound impact on Greek and Judeo-Christian thinking (as did a range of other Mesopotamian influences in the Jewish captivity period).

Arguably it's where our ideas about god being 'good' come from - strip away the crap that builds up in any religion and the actual god presented by (or through) Zarathustra is the closest humanity has even seen to a religion that expresses the existence of a truly 'good' god. It didn't exist before Zoroastrianism and latter religions that believed their gods were good didn't come close to expressing the same essential goodness in their conceptions of who their gods were. (admittedly the New Testament reimagined yhwh as better than the Old Testament and later religious innovators like the Cathars, Sikh and Baha'i got progressively closer).

If you think there's a god out there and that he/she/it must be good, you're halfway to Zoroastrianism already.

Some new translations are coming to light and I wouldn't be surprised to see some form of reinterpretated Zoroastrianism make a profound comeback at some point.

Ahura Mazda is just a startling 'good' god with answers to many problems (not an exclusionary faith, ethical positions we agree with in modern times, environmentalism and vegetarianism, no young earth science denial etc).

 

[Total Power]

Zoroastrianism had a profound impact on Greek and Judeo-Christian thinking (as did a range of other Mesopotamian influences in the Jewish captivity period).

Arguably it's where our ideas about god being 'good' come from - strip away the crap that builds up in any religion and the actual god presented by (or through) Zarathustra is the closest humanity has even seen to a religion that expresses the existence of a truly 'good' god. It didn't exist before Zoroastrianism and latter religions that believed their gods were good didn't come close to expressing the same essential goodness in their conceptions of who their gods were. (admittedly the New Testament reimagined yhwh as better than the Old Testament and later religious innovators like the Cathars, Sikh and Baha'i got progressively closer).

If you think there's a god out there and that he/she/it must be good, you're halfway to Zoroastrianism already.

Some new translations are coming to light and I wouldn't be surprised to see some form of reinterpretated Zoroastrianism make a profound comeback at some point.

Ahura Mazda is just a startling 'good' god with answers to many problems (not an exclusionary faith, ethical positions we agree with in modern times, environmentalism and vegetarianism, no young earth science denial etc).

Very well said. Don't say this to Vdubs he thinks his fairy tale is unique.

Zoroastrianism eventually resulted in Mithraism which thrived in many areas - one such being Tarsus, Paul's home town, and then largely in Rome where to this day, Catholic cathedrals sit on old Mithraic ruins. Interestingly, Mithra was also a man god, who died for mankind and was resurrected. Considering more than half of what's written in NT came from Paul, there is absolutely some connection there.

Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.

https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism

 

[Not Important]

100%

"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion. So now people assume that religion and morality have a necessary connection. But the basis of morality is really very simple and doesn't require religion at all."

Arthur C. Clarke, born #OTD 1917

 

[Boston tiger]

This is not the doctrine of the Trinity. The doctrine of the trinity is mentioned once in the Bible in 1 John 5:7. And that was a later addition by a copyist that was only to be found in later Latin manuscripts.

Jesus himself did not claim to be a divine being and his earthly followers did not see him as divine. The turning point occurred when they came to believe he had been raised from the dead. Jesus' followers believed that God had taken him (body and all) up to heaven. And of course anyone taken up to heaven was made divine: they live with the gods, or God, as an immortal being, no longer a mere mortal. So Jesus wasn't exalted to be divine, but instead his followers asserted that he had been born as a divine being. Later on they came to think Jesus existed before his birth and was a divine being with God who became human. So he had been in the beginning with God and created the universe.

Once Christians began to say Jesus was God, and they already knew that his Father was God, and they also wanted to insist there was just One God, they had an obvious theological and logical problem on their hands, they came up with the Trinity.

The father , Son and the Holy Spirit……There was always going to be some type of Trinity doctrine formulated down the track as the Church grew and matured.

Here is another example …The word “ transubstantiation" didn’t get used until 11th century but that doesn’t mean the early church didn’t believe they were eating and drinking the actual body and blood of Christ. No one had bothered to formulate the doctrine until the 11th century or given it a name.

You’ve got to get away from your C of E Protestant upbringing and get the big picture Roy. Christianity is church based not Bible based.

 

[Roylion]

You’ve got to get away from your C of E Protestant upbringing and get the big picture Roy.

I don't have to do anything. I don't believe any of it. And see no reason to do so.

No resurrection. No Trinity. No transubstantiation. So whether its the doctrine of the Church of England, Lutheran, Catholic Church or any other denomination is immaterial to me.

Christianity is church based not Bible based.

Which makes absolutely no difference either way. Being one or the other does not establish or support the truth of any claim made by either Bible authors or the Early Church fathers.

 

[Total Power]

The father , Son and the Holy Spirit……There was always going to be some type of Trinity doctrine formulated down the track as the Church grew and matured.

Here is another example …The word “ transubstantiation" didn’t get used until 11th century but that doesn’t mean the early church didn’t believe they were eating and drinking the actual body and blood of Christ. No one had bothered to formulate the doctrine until the 11th century or given it a name.

You’ve got to get away from your C of E Protestant upbringing and get the big picture Roy. Christianity is church based not Bible based.

It was polytheism, distinctly 3 separate entities, which is why Arianism was a massive movement pre-Constantine period till the doctrine of Trinity was invented. Even now Christians think modalism is Trinity, which it isn't. Trinity was invented but not clearly explained saying god works in mysterious ways.

But OT is polytheism. Gen 1:26 ("Let us create humanity in our image"). Who is 'our'? who is 'us'??

Pretty much like everything else, another claim that was swept under the carpet.

 

[Total Power]

I don't have to do anything. I don't believe any of it. And see no reason to do so.

No resurrection. No Trinity. No transubstantiation. So whether its the doctrine of the Church of England, Lutheran, Catholic Church or any other denomination is immaterial to me.


Which makes absolutely no difference either way. Being one or the other does not establish or support the truth of any claim made by either Bible authors or the Early Church fathers.

Regardless all these made up church doctrine, they good a good job disproving their own beliefs.

Doc of trinity which states all 3 are 100% god (who is ONE). It's IRRELEVANT if Jesus is human, he is still 100% God (who is ONE). He cannot have limitations cause he is 100% God. He is not less than God. The argument these morons make to justify Jesus' inability to do many things is cause he was human. So he was less than God then?

Anything less than 100% God means it's not God. Which is precisely modalism or polytheism which is not Trinity. If he was limited he was not God. Trinity clearly states that these 3 entities are the SAME.

So to sum it up Yahweh, sent himself as a human (named himself Jesus) for salvation of mankind? and he also made himself up as holy spirit who is also himself?

Idolatry as it's very best. Augustinan Trinity was the worst thing that has happened to Christianity, trying to turn Jesus into God by inventing a concept is pretty much idolatry and polytheism.

 

[Boston tiger]

I don't have to do anything. I don't believe any of it. And see no reason to do so.

No resurrection. No Trinity. No transubstantiation. So whether its the doctrine of the Church of England, Lutheran, Catholic Church or any other denomination is immaterial to me.


Which makes absolutely no difference either way. Being one or the other does not establish or support the truth of any claim made by either Bible authors or the Early Church fathers.

Well you never made that clear before . From your previous posting I thought you were somewhere between a Baptist and Church of England.
Mormons reject original sin . I know you are pretty big on sin .. you might want to give that a run.

 

[Roylion]

Well you never made that clear before .

I've made my position very clear in the twenty years I've been posting on these boards.

From your previous posting I thought you were somewhere between a Baptist and Church of England.

Where would you get that from?

Mormons reject original sin . I know you are pretty big on sin ..

What 'sin'? I'm sinless.

you might want to give that a run.

Do a search.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

but that doesn’t mean the early church didn’t believe they were eating and drinking the actual body and blood of Christ.

And what a silly belief that was. A good example of the utter bunkum that underpins most religion.

 

[Gough]

And what a silly belief that was. A good example of the utter bunkum that underpins most religion.

Maupin weaves some extreme transubstantiation into More Tales of the City.

 

[Total Power]

. I know you are pretty big on sin .. you might want to give that a run.

Another BS made up doctrine. If God knew everything we would do in our lives before we were born then he IS forcing us to sin, because we never could have done anything else. Everything we will ever do was decided before we were born, and we can never do otherwise. If God doesn't know the choices we will make then he isn't really omniscient.

On top of that threatening to torture you if you don't want a relationship with him for the choices he knows you are gonna make isn't narcissism apparently.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Maupin weaves some extreme transubstantiation into More Tales of the City.

Oh well at least that bunkum belief wasn't completely wasted!

 

[Anzacpaul]

And what a silly belief that was. A good example of the utter bunkum that underpins most religion.

Religious people when it comes to the Bible:

"It's the word of God".

then when you point out all the stupid shit that makes zero sense.

"They're just allegories".