Australian test team last 50 years

[PhatBoy]

Living End. FFS, derivative bullshit.
Your taste is horrid.
Please stop!!!...rofl

There is a reason Chris Cheney is regarded not by the plebs, but by experts, as being the best guitarist in Australia outside Tommy Emmanuel and maybe Frank Gambale.

Derivative?

Well f*** me tell me anything that has been released in the last 20 years that isn’t

At least his stuff is derivative of a style no one else plays crossed with another style f***-all people play.

 

[Blue1980]

Hayden failed in the 90s when sides still had gun bowlers, come good when world cricket sucked.

That’s a myth, may as well say the same about Ponting, Martyn and Langer too.

 

[Blue1980]

Clarke ahead of Border is un-Australian...

Simon Katich likes this

 

[Blue1980]

Wayne Phillips
Greg Blewett
Darren Lehmann
David Hookes
Travis Head
Peter Sleep
Alex Carey
Tim May
Jason Gillespie
Shaun Tait
Mark Harrity

I sense a theme just can’t pick it.

If only Andrew Zezers played a test.

 

[footyfan1978]

I sense a theme just can’t pick it.

If only Andrew Zezers played a test.

No Rick Darling in his team is just wrong.

 

[Blue1980]

No Rick Darling in his team is just wrong.

Also how the hell is Peter sleep batting at 6?

Do imports count? Peter McIntyre could get in if so.

Nathan Lyon was a groundsmen at Adelaide Oval too.

 

[footyfan1978]

Also how the hell is Peter sleep batting at 6?

Do imports count? Peter McIntyre could get in if so.

Nathan Lyon was a groundsmen at Adelaide Oval too.

Sleep at 8, Harrity can piss off out of eleven.
Darling to open with Flippa
Blewett does not need to open.
Like Mike Hussey he fairly versatile where to bat in the order and can move around to best fit.

 

[Blue1980]

Sleep at 8, Harrity can piss off out of eleven.
Darling to open with Flippa
Blewett does not need to open.
Like Mike Hussey he fairly versatile where to bat in the order and can move around to best fit.

Blewett, the poor man’s Mike Hussey.

 

[footyfan1978]

Blewett, the poor man’s Mike Hussey.

That maybe so but he was there as a player when we ovetook West Indies as best Test team in the world so he will always have that.
Hussey was there when we fell off from best in the world.

 

[Blue1980]

That maybe so but he was there as a player when we ovetook West Indies as best Test team in the world so he will always have that.
Hussey was there when we fell off from best in the world.

Looking at their respective test and ODI records there is no comparison.

Yes Blewy can rightly be proud of a fair few big contributions, just had a fatal weakness against spin and a generally didn’t go on with it enough to make really big scores (only 3 test tons).

I can’t rate Blewy higher than Hussey because Blewy was there when we became the best side and Huss was there for the fall off, be like claiming Brendan Julian is better than Mitchell Johnson.

 

[footyfan1978]

Looking at their respective test and ODI records there is no comparison.

Yes Blewy can rightly be proud of a fair few big contributions, just had a fatal weakness against spin and a generally didn’t go on with it enough to make really big scores (only 3 test tons).

I can’t rate Blewy higher than Hussey because Blewy was there when we became the best side

I do not get my comments confused to think I rate Blewy with Hussey as I don't. I just meant he was in the squad and team in the period when we really started to become the best Test side in the world which crazy good time to be there for that as Windies had dominated for a decade and a half so it was crazy good Mount Everest moment in Test cricket for a team.

 

[Cainozz]

Hayden
Marnus (yes I know he’s not an opener but i had to fit him in)
Smith
Ponting
G. Chappell
S. Waugh (C)
Gilchrist
Cummins
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

Any improvements?

I'd still have Langer or Warner ahead of Marnus to open. Marnus' sample size still probably not big enough at this stage of his career.
Ponting at 3 and S.Smith at 4 instead
A.B instead of Chappell for me but I am a 90s baby so I might be naive in saying that.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Hayden
Marnus (yes I know he’s not an opener but i had to fit him in)
Smith
Ponting
G. Chappell
S. Waugh (C)
Gilchrist
Cummins
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

Any improvements?

Opening bat either Langer or Warner as they're opening bats.

Ponting at 3
Smith 4

Coin flip with Waugh and Border.

Like the rest.

 

[footyfan1978]

Opening bat either Langer or Warner as they're opening bats.

Ponting at 3
Smith 4

Coin flip with Waugh and Border.

Like the rest.

Have my doubt Warner would make it in a previous era without todays massive bat edges he uses to his advantage.

 

[reubski23]

1. Hayden.
2. Warner
3. Ponting.
4. Smith
5. Border
6. S.Waugh
7. Gilchrist
8. Warne
9. Johnson
10. Lillee
11. McGrath

12. Clarke

Hayden and Warner better hope this test is played in Australia

 

[masai tu]

Must have Border and Boon.

Johnson <<<<<<< Alderman.

It is bloody hard to judge players over a 50 year period, but I feel that the competitiveness & level of test playing has dropped. Are the present day players overrated in our visions ?.

 

[footyfan1978]

Must have Border and Boon.

Johnson <<<<<<< Alderman.

Boon, Johnson and Alderman have no spot in a best of last 50 years team.
All of them had their moments but overall they not in contention for mine.

Border is a lock.

 

[Blue1980]

Have my doubt Warner would make it in a previous era without todays massive bat edges he uses to his advantage.

Well he can only play in the era he was born in, and he’s outperformed others in his era.

I know he’s struggled overseas, but look at the records of basically any player, they have usually averaged significantly less away from home unless they are in the GOAT convo.

 

[Blue1980]

Must have Border and Boon.

Johnson
It is bloody hard to judge players over a 50 year period, but I feel that the competitiveness & level of test playing has dropped. Are the present day players overrated in our visions ?.

Border or Steve Waugh for me, line ball. But I go border.

Boon doesn’t get in, he is competing with Ponting for number 3.

Neither Johnson or Alderman get in. Both had some outstanding series but not the consistency of a McGrath, Lillee or Cummins.

 

[footyfan1978]

Well he can only play in the era he was born in, and he’s outperformed others in his era.

Correct. So an Australian Test team of last 10 years he more than eligible for.

 

[Blue1980]

Correct. So an Australian Test team of last 10 years he more than eligible for.

But we have no way of knowing how past cricketers would perform in 2023 either. We are just guessing.

We can only go on how they performed in the era they were playing.

 

[footyfan1978]

But we have no way of knowing how past cricketers would perform in 2023 either. We are just guessing.

We can only go on how they performed in the era they were playing.

You aree starting to get it. We don't know how present players would go if they grew up in past eras and we don't know how past players would go if they had access to equipment now. You basically have to use your imagination to form an opinion as they all get to do both past and present. That we will never know. But we can use our imagination like myself imaging Warner would struggle with a different bat style era and no ropes etc. If I imagined Viv Richards with curreent bats it scary what he might be able to do. That is all these threads will ever be, just opinions which all fun in the end to read different takes and offer our own too.

 

[PhatBoy]

Border or Steve Waugh for me, line ball. But I go border.

Boon doesn’t get in, he is competing with Ponting for number 3.

Neither Johnson or Alderman get in. Both had some outstanding series but not the consistency of a McGrath, Lillee or Cummins.

Boon did average 45 as an opener though over 63 innings. Given the attacks he faced - his opening was done predominantly before 1992 so Waqar/Wasim and probably Imran Khan (though his record was very poor against them), the Windies, Hadlee, Kapil Dev, beyond Botham I’m not sure who he faced much of from England as they had edged towards revolving door status towards the end of that era - I don’t think he’s as far removed from that conversation as people think.
He had the same average as Border against the Windies (slightly higher in fact) and did it against the new ball predominantly. He only faced SA after he moved to 3 but still averaged mid 40s against Donald, De Villiers, McMillan etc and in one of those series he may as well have been opening as Hayden was a walking wicket. He managed to average over 40 away from home.

I think you’d have to at least consider him for a spot as an opener

 

[Marcel Proust]

I’m surprised the McGill doesn’t get more of a mention, 29 is a pretty good average for a leggie

Killed the world 11 v Australia too, iirc

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Given the quality Australia have had over the years, this is a surprisingly easy team to pick.

Ponting and Smith are locks at 3 and 4. Hayden is a pretty unanimous choice as opener.

3 of the 4 bowlers are locks too in Lillee, Warne and McGrath.

Gilchrist is the obvious choice for keeper.

Really only leaves 3-4 contentious spots once you have the following...

Hayden
?
Ponting
Smith
?
?
Gilchrist
Warne
?
Lillee
McGrath

For me, the other bowlers spot is now becoming pretty clear as well. Cummins, as the no1 bowler in the world for a couple of years now, captaining the side and having comfortably the lowest average of any contender puts him in for me, even if he has fewer total matches and wickets than some others at this stage.

The openers spot is really between Warner and Langer for me and there really is a bees dick between them. Langer played 105 matches and Warner 100 so far, but Warner has played 1 extra inning. Langer's average was 45.3 and Warner's 46.4. Langer hit 23 tonnes, Warner 25. I think for a team on paper, I would lean slightly to Warner with 400 or so extra runs (and still going), marginally ahead in average, a much better strike rate (but Langer faced more balls - a key part of the openers role) and slightly better in the field. To actually play a game, I might go Langer though (that's how close they are - or even go horses for courses depending on where it is) given Langer's impact in the dressing room and connection to Hayden, Ponting, etc on field. .

However, it is position 5 and 6 where it is really interesting. With all due respect to Michael Hussey, it feels like there are 4 names at the front of the queue for those 2 spots - Greg Chappell, Allan Border, Steve Waugh and Michael Clarke.

Of those 4, Greg Chappell has the highest average (53.86) which would be even higher if you include the World Series tests, where he averaged 69 against the Windies. The other averages are 51.06 for Waugh, 50.56 for Border and 49.1 for Clarke.

All 4 captained the side and played for various lengths, with Waugh playing the equal most tests (168), Border close behind (156), Clarke's back stopping him at 115 and Chappell (playing in a different era), 87.

Border has the most runs (11,174) from Waugh (10, 927), Clarke (8643) and Chappell (7110). Waugh has the most centuries (32), from Clarke (28), Border (27) and Chappell (24). For Chappell to be so close from about 100 less innings is remarkable, as is Clarke being right up there from fewer games also.

All in all, very hard to pick but this process has probably helped me eliminate Clarke as an option - I think the other 3 have stronger cases. I think for the time and situation that Border scored most of his runs and the way he lead the team, he is in. Waugh vs Chappell is very difficult - I think Chappell was probably more talented but Waugh managed to eek and graft a little more out of himself as a total contribution to Australian cricket.

Final side:

Hayden
Warner
Ponting
Smith
Border (c)
Waugh
Gilchrist
Cummins
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

12th: (G) Chappell

(Probably end up switching Waugh and Chappell tomorrow- such a 50/50 - you probably don't need the leadership/grafting of Waugh when you have Border doing that job at 5 anyway - you can afford the stroke play of Chappell).