Ayres and NC

[crowman_23]

Can't argue with what Neil Craig has done at the club but I was one who was hoping Eade would get the job.

My opinion on Craig is still very up and down. One week he seems to be a mastermind and you would want noone else at the helm, and then the next week he seems to have no back up plans and doesn't make changes.

I would have to agree with many assessments of him that he is a wonderful coach during the week but struggles a bit on gameday. That's my opinion anyway. Though it has also often been said that that is the reason why Rocket Eade was sacked from Sydney. Because he was a wonderful coach throughout the week but not so good come game day.

I just feel NC should have won a flag in one of the last two years. I know we had WCE, injuries and all that stuff but last year especially we were in unbelievable form all season and to see it drop off just before finals was very disappointing. 2005 we shot ourselves in the foot by losing the first final, we didn't do that last year so we have noone but ourselves to blame.

 

[baaaallllll]

I just feel NC should have won a flag in one of the last two years. I know we had WCE, injuries and all that stuff but last year especially we were in unbelievable form all season and to see it drop off just before finals was very disappointing. 2005 we shot ourselves in the foot by losing the first final, we didn't do that last year so we have noone but ourselves to blame.

Agreed, 2005 was a chance gone begging. We beat WC in the final round and were the form side. The loss to the Saints was costly.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Though it has also often been said that that is the reason why Rocket Eade was sacked from Sydney. Because he was a wonderful coach throughout the week but not so good come game day.

and yet I have heard otherwise - that he is a great match day tactician but not so good during the week.

 

[Fergus]

and yet I have heard otherwise - that he is a great match day tactician but not so good during the week.

Yep - widely regarded as one of the best match day tacticians around. Lost it with the players during the week though.

 

[marvin]

Anyone think we should have gone with Terry Wallace?

Also there were a bunch of people on this forum that were disgusted that NC was appointed and said it was a job for the boys. I am just wondering if anyone out there felt that way back then and still feels that way now.

I didn't think Wallace was the right person for the job then, and I still don't now.

As for Craig (and I was an Eade fan then, am still and Eade fan but am more than happy with Craig), the criticism on this forum in late 2004 was about the process, not the decision.

 

[johnnypanther]

Ayres & Craig both have their good and bad points - as do all coaches

IMO Ayres has copped a lot of unfair over the top flack - with a bit of luck he could have snared a premiership in 2002 - and again when we recruited Carey the object was to have Carey, Mark Stevens, Welsh as our forward combination but unfortunately due to injury we could never get those 3 together on the park fit and firing.

I must say that i was deadset wrong re Craig ( i wanted Wallace and thought that Craig would turn us into a "soft' side) but Craigy has done a great job - and once again he too could also have snared a premiership with a bit more luck and less injury. In our case we made our own luck or lack of it but i feel things may have been different if finals results had gone the otherway and had we not had to play the West Coast in prelim finals both years.

but c'est la vie

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Yep - widely regarded as one of the best match day tacticians around. Lost it with the players during the week though.

Rodney Eade had it put to him on Footy Confidential a few weeks ago that he was percieved to be a masterful match day coach at Sydney but struggled during the week. Eade described this view as 'confusing.'

Eade said that all the moves he made on match day were all a result of the planning he had done during the week. He said that he would spend all week going through the different scenarios with the players/coaches and his moves on match day weren't spontaneous acts of genius. People who think you can divide coaching into separate matchday / weekday sections fail to understand that the two are intrinsically linked.

 

[Crow-mo]

Rodney Eade had it put to him on Footy Confidential a few weeks ago that he was percieved to be a masterful match day coach at Sydney but struggled during the week. Eade described this view as 'confusing.'

Eade said that all the moves he made on match day were all a result of the planning he had done during the week. He said that he would spend all week going through the different scenarios with the players/coaches and his moves on match day weren't spontaneous acts of genius. People who think you can divide coaching into separate matchday / weekday sections fail to understand that the two are intrinsically linked.

bit misleading there Carl, as well as a little bit of license I suspect.

of course the preparation during the week makes up the options available to you in the match day box. that's never been in doubt.

Deciding, executing and responding in the match day box is the application and rejection of those options as the circumstances unfold. Which is also something that has not been in question

 

[chopper55555]

Craigy has been great for us. when he took over we were easy-beats. Then for the next 2 years we absolutely DOMINATED the competition. Unlucky not to be premiers.

Ayers *****ing off during the season wasn't a sign of full character.

 

[just maybe]

Ayers *****ing off during the season wasn't a sign of full character.

Er...given the situation he was in, what he did was understandable. The situation was handled terribly by the AFC board.

 

[maccas_no1]

My criticism of Ayres was always that we were too defensive.

NC is starting to head the same way and that is more a product of the abilities of our list rather that Craigy's predisposition for either attack or defense.

After spending last weekend in Melbourne - most media commentary can't believe our defensive gameplan and views our list as being more capable than that.

I'm starting to become of the opinion that we are playing the style of footy that our list dictates.....and if we are to go anywhere - it will be more by stealth than anything else.

Geelong and Hawthorn are very exciting to watch at the moment - but we just don't have the skill set at the moment to play that kind of footy.

I agree with your thoughts, but (and it is a huge but), if the AFC realise there are issues with the list that dont allow us to play and attacking style of footy then why is the club not more aggressive at the trade table???

 

[maccas_no1]

Craigy has been great for us. when he took over we were easy-beats. Then for the next 2 years we absolutely DOMINATED the competition. Unlucky not to be premiers.

Ayers *****ing off during the season wasn't a sign of full character.

Ayres was told 'you will not be offered a new contract'.................so that left him with well okay I have no job but I just see this out and will never gain anything out of nor will the club, or I go now and the club can start planning for the future and so can I........................Ayres made the right choice.

 

[Crow-mo]

Craigy has been great for us. when he took over we were easy-beats. Then for the next 2 years we absolutely DOMINATED the competition. Unlucky not to be premiers.

Ayers *****ing off during the season wasn't a sign of full character.

Um... that's not true.

we were decimated by injury in 2004, and were easybeats. we continued to be easybeats under craig for the rest of the season.

Ayres was obviously pushed.

It's not accurate to say we were easybeats under Ayres before then either, as we enjoyed our best run of regular finals in our history up to that point. which was his brief - to be regular finals participants.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Deciding, executing and responding in the match day box is the application and rejection of those options as the circumstances unfold. Which is also something that has not been in question

Lol. So, you're saying that there is such thing as a coach who has brilliant plans, tactics and ideas for match day but just never knows when to use them? Oxymoron perhaps? How would anyone ever know how 'brilliant' those plans were? That's a bit like Rex Hunt's theory on footy tipping - I'm tipping brilliantly, the teams are just playing badly.

The point remains, you can't have one without the other. To suggest otherwise would be, as Eade puts it, confusing.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Hindsight? WTF? Heaps of us said he was perfect at the time.

No hindsight mate.

What's the Ozlotto numbers for next week then?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I don't believe Ayres was a poor choice as coach (ala Shaw), but his time was definitely up.

My preference too was for the proven Eade over Craig & wasn't exactly thrilled about the process (yes, I believe it was Jackson who wasn't available for the interview).

Craig has done a great job developing the list & I think our future looks much brighter long-term compared to when he took over. His much publised communication style around the club is obviously a huge plus. However, there is still some doubt over his match day tactics being up there with the best, given our opportunities lost in the last 2 finals series. We will need to make the most of these opportunities in the future to overcome this percieved short-coming.

 

[chopper55555]

Um... we were decimated by injury in 2004, and were easybeats.

Umm, well, tell me our injury run the last 2 1/2 years has been good. Also tell me that words at the time weren't "we haven't the right cattle". Please, how substantially has our list changed from easybeats to becoming ABSOLUTELY DOMINANT in the next 2 years ? The crows were GREAT. Ayers wasn't, the mop-headed mullet-bearing boofhead who is with another club.

 

[just maybe]

Umm, well, tell me our injury run the last 2 1/2 years has been good. Also tell me that words at the time weren't "we haven't the right cattle". Please, how substantially has our list changed from becoming easybeats to absolutely DOMINANT in the next 2 years ?

Neither Ayres nor Craig did anything in 2004. Are you too young to remember Ayres' success prior to 2004?

 

[chopper55555]

the opposite, too old to remember. Were the crows absolutely dominant all year and to what level finals did they get by comparison ? Ayers was still a strategy-less boofhead regardless. Ayers > Shaw maybe but not much else ?

Craigy picked up an easybeat team, shook them up, gave them confidence and strategy/tactics and made them DOMINANT... took time, but less than say 15 other teams coaches.

Sorry, you may have missed the other questions.

 

[just maybe]

the opposite, too old to remember. Were the crows absolutely dominant all year and to what level finals did they get by comparison ? Ayers was still a strategy-less boofhead regardless. Ayers > Shaw maybe but not much else ?

Craigy picked up an easybeat team, shook them up, gave them confidence and strategy/tactics and made them DOMINANT... took time, but less than say 15 other teams coaches.

Sorry, you may have missed the other questions.

FFS, the Crows were not easybeats under Ayres. Ever.

Nobody agrees with you. At all.

 

[chopper55555]

FFS, the Crows were not easybeats under Ayres. Ever.

Nobody agrees with you. At all.

Ha ha ha ... nobody ? You, being "everyone else" ? I know a few outside this forum that agree, so ... so much for your "nobody"...

and yes they were easybeats in that year in particular.

Your aren't Ayersy are you ? or a relative ?

Sorry, you missed the other questions ... again.

 

[just maybe]

Ha ha ha ... nobody ? You, being "everyone else" ? I know a few outside this forum that agree, so ... so much for your "nobody"...

and yes they were easybeats in that year in particular.

Your aren't Ayersy are you ? or a relative ?

Naturally I am talking about this thread.

If you think the Crows were easybeats under Ayres, you're either an idiot or you didn't watch the Crows during his time. The Crows were many things under Ayres, but easybeats they were not. They always fought to the end.

If anything, your stupid definition of 'easybeats' would be more applicable to Craig, where blowouts have been far more common - perhaps a certain 131-point smashing has slipped your memory?

 

[chopper55555]

Oh dear just_maybe... caught out by "naturally" when you said different ? Calling people names... and "stupid"...

As it happens I did watch things and there was an odd blip... are you disputing that our team was DOMINANT in the last 2 years by comparison ? Silly you, quoting a blip as an trend rather than an outlier.

They were in fact then easybeats by comparison to the last 2 years, and no did not fight it out to the end always.

Ayersy did not have effective strategy/tactics nor coaching ability anywhere near Craigy's... he just had a mouth... as do some by the looks.

 

[just maybe]

Oh dear just_maybe... caught out by "naturally" when you said different ? Calling people names... and "stupid"...

As it happens I did watch things and there was an odd blip... are you disputing that our team was DOMINANT in the last 2 years by comparison ? Silly you, quoting a blip as an trend rather than an outlier.

They were in fact then easybeats by comparison to the last 2 years, and no did not fight it out to the end always.

Ayersy did not have effective strategy/tactics nor coaching ability anywhere near Craigy's... he just had a mouth... as do some by the looks.

So Ayres' first half of 2004 was a 'trend', Craig's second half was a 'blip'.

You're really covering yourself with glory.

 

[Crow-mo]

Lol. So, you're saying that there is such thing as a coach who has brilliant plans, tactics and ideas for match day but just never knows when to use them?

still flogging a dead horse Carl. guess what, the horse is dead, no matter how much you wish it wasn't, or beat it some more.

but I liked the way you slipped in "brilliant" into your descriptors. but you're trying to pretend Eade said something he didn't.

all coaches have options, all of them. this says nothing about their quality or if they're brilliant. and you well know this.
when or if they're applied, has a impact in their success as does their innate quality and suitability.

but again, this is has never been in doubt. spot the theme yet?

Oxymoron perhaps? How would anyone ever know how 'brilliant' those plans were? That's a bit like Rex Hunt's theory on footy tipping - I'm tipping brilliantly, the teams are just playing badly.

you don't think the playing field is a fair arbiter? interesting.

The point remains, you can't have one without the other. To suggest otherwise would be, as Eade puts it, confusing.

no, now you're making things up. what he said, was he couldn't be a master match day tactician, without have done the preparation - so criticism of preparation was invalid. fine.

you seem to think you can back that truck up in the other direction. Eade has said nothing of the sort. you know full well there is nothing implied about the other way round, stop trying to make things up to flog your horse one last time.