Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[IlovethePies]

I am not Russia's side but everything Putin says and does is true and justified .........

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

You said that, not me.

 

[IlovethePies]

Exposing the myth of Western betrayal of Russia over NATO’s eastern enlargement

Thirty years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia is still peddling the old myth of Western betrayal of Russia by expanding NATO eastward after the end of the Cold War. Both Vladimir Puti…

blogs.lse.ac.uk

my source was the nsa archive

It was based on original documents.

Yours was from the LSE, a pro British imperialism think tank, operating as a "specialised university" in politics and economics, simply quoting the opinions of one of its academics.

It is necessary not just to find sources, but to be able to determine which ones are more likely going to provide a basis for establishing historical truth.

That is what you are totally incapable of, because you are completely uncritical in your attitude to the official narrative.

 

[IlovethePies]

You’ve got your own strange storyline going here.
“NATO/US are intent on overthrowing the Putin government using Ukrainians as their cannon fodder.” There was no war until russia invaded. If NATO/US wanted to overthrow Putin’s government why do they place restrictions on the weapons they give Ukraine, why do they give Ukraine their cast off weapons.

And your solution is to get rid of capitalism. Now that is "insane logic".

Actually, abolishing capitalism is the only realistic solution.

The alternative, allowing capitalism to continue, is the truly insane one.

 

[IlovethePies]

Putin In Stalin’s Mirror

The end of the Soviet Union promised a new day. But Russia’s pattern of autocratic leadership re-emerged.

www.hoover.org

If Putin wins this war there will be a Holodomor II. It may not be another death famine but it will be another attempt at destroying the idea of being Ukrainian.

These past fourteen months of war in Ukraine have caused me to think more and more about Vladimir Putin in the mirror of Josef Stalin, and Stalin in the mirror of Putin. I resisted for a very long time the notion that Putin was a Stalin-like figure. However, the similarity between the two of them, the historical dialogue, has seemed to be growing too powerful to be pushed aside.

Both Putin and Stalin use the non-Russian peoples of Russia/Soviet Union as cannon fodder. Both pay little if any attention to the actual loss of life and casualties at the front.

Yet to both Stalin and Putin, Ukraine is the little brother, “Little Russia,” as it was known under the czars. Russians should see themselves as superior to Ukrainians: bigger, stronger, more powerful, more central to the imperial project than the Ukrainians.

But Ukrainians are not Russians and do not want to be Russians. That is precisely why they are dangerous for Moscow.

But even in a previous era, the period of the Holodomor, the death famine of 1932–33, Stalin constantly asserted that the Poles would use the Ukrainians to destroy the Soviet Union. Putin now claims that Ukraine is being controlled by the West, that the leaders are nothing but marionettes of the United States.

and now you are propagating the lie of "Holomodor", ie the lie that is promoted by Ukrainian nationalists and Western propaganda.

Yes, the Stalinist bureaucracy is responsible for a famine in the Soviet union in the early 30's which killed 6 to 8 million, of whom 4 to 5 million were Ukrainians.

But there is no evidence whatsoever that the policies of the Stalinist bureaucracy intended such an outcome, nor that they were targeted against Ukrainians as an ethnic group.

As the figures indicate, there were also millions of non-Ukrainian Soviet citizens who died.

All historians who have an ounce of intellectual integrity have proven that the famine in the Soviet Union at that time was not an ethnically motivated genocide, but was the result of the criminally incompetent and irrational economic policies of the Stalinist bureaucracy, in a desperate attempt to forcibly industrialise the economy after years of incorrect policy directions. Kazakhstan for example suffered on a scale similar to that of Ukraine.

The reactionary historical falsification of the Ukrainian nationalists is that the famine was a conscious effort by the stalinist regime to eliminate the Ukrainain population. This is false to the core.

There is a fundamental similarity between Putin and Stalin, but it is not the one you think. Stalin, just like Putin, was anti-socialist. Putin says everything he can to condemn and falsify the history of the Bolshevik Revolution. Putin is a bitter anti-socialist. Likewise, Stalin was motivated by his hatred and fear of genuine socialism. The genocide that Stalin carried out in the late 1930's (the Great Terror) was not an ethnic genocide, it was a political genocide. Stalin murdered anyone he could find who had the slightest connection with, or sympathy for, the Russian Revolution. Putin agrees totally with Stalin on that score.

 

[Zidane98]

my source was the nsa archive

It was based on original documents.

Yours was from the LSE, a pro British imperialism think tank, operating as a "specialised university" in politics and economics, simply quoting the opinions of one of its academics.

It is necessary not just to find sources, but to be able to determine which ones are more likely going to provide a basis for establishing historical truth.

That is what you are totally incapable of, because you are completely uncritical in your attitude to the official narrative.

Looks like Mobbs delivers - again!

 

[IlovethePies]

Looks like Mobbs delivers - again!

Clearly your standards are extremely low.

 

[Carringbush2010]

If Russia withdrew its forces from Ukraine, the US and NATO would proceed to arm Ukraine, build military installations on the Ukraine/Russia border and use Ukraine as a platform for mounting further provocations, military and otherwise, against the Putin regime.

But US and NATO imperialism have no intention of making a ''fair deal'
No way that US imperialism can accept anything other than the removal of any barriers to its total domination and plunder of the Russian Federation land mass.

These are purely theory of your mind mate, if the US wanted to take Russia, they would've taken it already.

There is no conspiracy against Russia, like I said, if that was the want it would've happened already.