Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[jatz14]

I definitely am, because I am the only one here who quotes sources which are not mouthpieces of CIA propaganda.

The reason for that of course, everything that disagrees with your world view is ispo facto CIA propaganda.

 

[Mobbs]

Through a historical materialist analysis of social reality, which means a scientific study of the evolution of capitalist society.
One can only achieve a scientific analysis of capitalism by opposing it down the line, and by recognising the class nature of all political phenomena.

Exactly what I was gonna say!

 

[CD Xbow]

Through a historical materialist analysis of social reality, which means a scientific study of the evolution of capitalist society.
One can only achieve a scientific analysis of capitalism by opposing it down the line, and by recognising the class nature of all political phenomena.

Another comedic post by you. You have no idea about science. Dialectical materialism is not science. Marxist critiques of capitalism are not science. It's a misuse of the use of the word by Marxists to try to give them some credibility. It's much the same when Senator Moron Roberts uses the word empirical.

 

[IlovethePies]

Another comedic post by you. You have no idea about science. Dialectical materialism is not science. Marxist critiques of capitalism are not science. It's a misuse of the use of the word by Marxists to try to give them some credibility. It's much the same when Senator Moron Roberts uses the word empirical.

I feel embarassed for you. You really should refrain commenting on something about which you are completely ignorant.

 

[Aussie in exile]

I definitely am, because I am the only one here who quotes sources which are not mouthpieces of CIA propaganda.

You certainly use quotes from the kremlin propaganda machine.

 

[CD Xbow]

I'm gr

I feel embarassed for you. You really should refrain commenting on something about which you are completely ignorant.

Thank you for your embarrassment, I appreciate the thought. The fact remains dialectical materialism, marxism etc are not science. You are misusing the word science to lend credence to your failed political ideology.

 

[Jamolad]

Another comedic post by you. You have no idea about science. Dialectical materialism is not science. Marxist critiques of capitalism are not science. It's a misuse of the use of the word by Marxists to try to give them some credibility. It's much the same when Senator Moron Roberts uses the word empirical.

Literally says his analysis is biased. An objective, scientific analysis does not start from a position of opposition.

 

[wannabejack]

Gazprom stops supplying gas to Austria - Euractiv

The cut-off potentially spells the end for a long-term contract agreed to last until 2040.

www.euractiv.com

Austria was(?) locked into a long-term contract until 2040.

The Russian energy company Gazprom will stop sending gas to Austria effectively this weekend, said the country's energy major supplier, OMV.

After OMV was awarded €230 million in damages in an arbitration against Gazprom, it announced its intention to stop paying bills to recoup the money. In response, the state-owned Russian company is turning off the tap, the company said on Friday.

Despite that, Austria is not expecting an immediate gas shortage in the coming winter – the country’s storage facilities hold a whole year’s supply and are 90% full.

The move potentially ends a six-decade history of Austria receiving gas from Russia, first offered after Moscow blocked the alpine country from joining the EU, forcing it to remain a neutral country in the Cold War.

“But tomorrow also marks the end of a risk. If we no longer receive supplies from Russia, we can no longer be blackmailed,” she added.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Gazprom stops supplying gas to Austria - Euractiv

The cut-off potentially spells the end for a long-term contract agreed to last until 2040.

www.euractiv.com

Austria was(?) locked into a long-term contract until 2040.

The Russian energy company Gazprom will stop sending gas to Austria effectively this weekend, said the country's energy major supplier, OMV.

After OMV was awarded €230 million in damages in an arbitration against Gazprom, it announced its intention to stop paying bills to recoup the money. In response, the state-owned Russian company is turning off the tap, the company said on Friday.

Despite that, Austria is not expecting an immediate gas shortage in the coming winter – the country’s storage facilities hold a whole year’s supply and are 90% full.

The move potentially ends a six-decade history of Austria receiving gas from Russia, first offered after Moscow blocked the alpine country from joining the EU, forcing it to remain a neutral country in the Cold War.

“But tomorrow also marks the end of a risk. If we no longer receive supplies from Russia, we can no longer be blackmailed,” she added.

OK this is almost comical.
This site is designed to see how things are going renewable wise.

Live 24/7 CO₂ emissions of electricity consumption

Electricity Maps is a live 24/7 visualization of where your electricity comes from and how much CO2 was emitted to produce it.

app.electricitymaps.com

So Austria has a good bit of Hydro, are running on gas, and are importing 20% of their electricity from Czechia.
Guess where the Czech's get their gas.

Czechs Return to Russian Gas as Cost of Alternatives Bites

Europe has spent the past two years trying to free itself from dependence on Russian energy, but more expensive alternatives are prompting some landlocked countries to go back to their old source.

www.bnnbloomberg.ca

 

[wannabejack]

Not that knowledgeable regarding russian supply to Europe.

From the bnnbloomberg article
Now it’s [Czech Republic] importing at least some Russian fuel via Slovakia, grid data show.

Those relatively cheap supplies are set to come to an abrupt halt at the end of the year, when a deal allowing flows from Russia to the European Union via Ukraine expires.

Image from another article

 

[barreness]

Quick Google to refresh my memory of the last time I looked -

Their billionaires make up more of the GDP per capita than any other country.


Bottom 50% share of GDP cut in half in the 90's. Top 1% quadrupled. Very slowly narrowing over time. 08 financial crisis took a bite out of the top 1% - Putin can't really be praised for that.

Corruption indices are high. Public services poor.

Trillions hidden in tax havens. Low investment.

They're in the zone of wealth inequality and low GDP, while the US's wealth inequality is off of a higher base.

Ah yes, capitalism

Now Putin pulled the plug on what little progress was made. Brain drain and sanctions will have huge effects into the future.

Yeh probs

Middle class disappearing and it's back to chaos and rising inequality, while draining the public purse (and killing 600,000 of his own citizens) for delusions of empire.

I mean 600k is probably casualties, but I don't trust many numbers until later

But he has the Urals and Asian Russia to drain of people and resources to keep his mates happy and his head out of a noose. For now.

That is Russia's strength and why the US will continue to hate them. Land and resources which could conceivably challenge the US heartland

 

[Aussie in exile]

Ah yes, capitalism

Yeh probs

I mean 600k is probably casualties, but I don't trust many numbers until later

That is Russia's strength and why the US will continue to hate them. Land and resources which could conceivably challenge the US heartland

You don't trust any figures that aren't pro Putin or pro Russia.
Again you keep forgetting that this war wouldn't have taken place without Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine.

 

[barreness]

You don't trust any figures that aren't pro Putin or pro Russia.

I don't trust any figures, war propaganda exists no?

Again you keep forgetting that this war wouldn't have taken place without Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine.

I don't think I've ever forgotten that

 

[Baldur]

"February 2, 2022: Three weeks before Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, as Russia was amassing nearly 200,000 troops near Ukraine's borders and NATO & U.S. intelligence warned of an imminent attack, Fiona Hill testified before the U.S. Helsinki Commission to explain Putin's motivations"

 

[IlovethePies]

For anyone who thinks that the NATO powers are not the real driving forces of this war, this thread below exposes the role of Great Britain in determining military actions in Ukraine:





Klarenburg was arrested by the UK government in 2023 because of his exposures of the criminality of British imperialism both in Ukraine and elsewhere.

Oppose the detention of Kit Klarenberg! End British state intimidation of anti-NATO journalists!

The precedent for Britain’s arbitrary detention of journalists and publishers was set by the seizure and imprisonment of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

www.wsws.org

 

[IlovethePies]

"February 2, 2022: Three weeks before Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, as Russia was amassing nearly 200,000 troops near Ukraine's borders and NATO & U.S. intelligence warned of an imminent attack, Fiona Hill testified before the U.S. Helsinki Commission to explain Putin's motivations"

Some of the "credentials" of Fiona Hill (sourced from Wikipedia):

"Hill was appointed, in the first quarter of 2017, by President Donald Trump as deputy assistant to the president and senior director for European and Russian affairs on his National Security Council staff

Hill had been due to leave the White House to return to Brookings in April 2019. She developed a close working relationship with National Security Advisor John Bolton, and at Bolton's request, Hill agreed to stay on until mid-July, after which Tim Morrison would replace her.[3] As planned, Hill left the White House on July 15, ten days before the Trump–Zelenskyy telephone call.

Subsequently, Hill has spoken of the difficulty of maintaining a consistent U.S.-Russia policy under President Trump,[19] a result of the clash of her "hawkish" view on Russia and Trump's intermittently warm and welcoming approach, and of the difficulty of ascertaining what Trump and Putin discussed in private meetings."

In other words, Hill was viewed favourably by Trump but opposed Trump on the basis that she wished to escalate the war against Russia, but Trump showed less enthusiasm for doing so.

The posters here do not make any logical connections. They condemn Trump as a lunatic, moron, sociopath etc. Then, to support their views on another topic, they quote former sidekicks of Trump.

This is what happens when you have no overall scientific understanding of world politics.

 

[Chief]

Probably all those troops that Putin flew in to take the airport that started the latest one.

 

[Zidane98]

For anyone who thinks that the NATO powers are not the real driving forces of this war, this thread below exposes the role of Great Britain in determining military actions in Ukraine:





Klarenburg was arrested by the UK government in 2023 because of his exposures of the criminality of British imperialism both in Ukraine and elsewhere.

Oppose the detention of Kit Klarenberg! End British state intimidation of anti-NATO journalists!

The precedent for Britain’s arbitrary detention of journalists and publishers was set by the seizure and imprisonment of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

www.wsws.org

You love Kremlin propaganda don't you. The Grayzone is a pro Russian disinformation platform. Everyone knows this including you yet you quote known promoters of pro Russian lies.

Are you able to actually quote anything from a non Pro Russian source? Or is that the only content you're allowed to access whee you reside?

 

[wannabejack]

Have posted this on the Port forum site as well

Russia Planned Genocide Long Before Invasion: Kill Lists, Crematoriums, Mass Graves – HUR

Kyrylo Budanov claims Russian soldiers were briefed on where to locate mass graves before the full-scale invasion and that systematic genocidal policies were in place.

www.kyivpost.com

“The genocide of Ukrainians is not just a state policy of the Russian Federation but also an ingrained social belief imposed from above,” Budanov said.

HUR representative Vadym Skibitsky also addressed the forum, highlighting the abduction and indoctrination of Ukrainian children from occupied territories.
According to him, Russia is trying to erase the Ukrainian identity of these children through approximately fifty special programs designed to reprogram their consciousness.

 

[wannabejack]

There has been many comparisons between Hitler and Putin.
This article discusses "DISTURBING HISTORICAL PARALLELS".

Opinion: A Mistake Repeated is Not a Mistake but a Choice

Winston Churchill called World War II “the unnecessary war,” sadly that could apply to the war in Ukraine - we saw it coming but did nothing to stop it and it’s not yet peaked.

www.kyivpost.com

 

[barreness]

Have posted this on the Port forum site as well

Russia Planned Genocide Long Before Invasion: Kill Lists, Crematoriums, Mass Graves – HUR

Kyrylo Budanov claims Russian soldiers were briefed on where to locate mass graves before the full-scale invasion and that systematic genocidal policies were in place.

www.kyivpost.com

“The genocide of Ukrainians is not just a state policy of the Russian Federation but also an ingrained social belief imposed from above,” Budanov said.

HUR representative Vadym Skibitsky also addressed the forum, highlighting the abduction and indoctrination of Ukrainian children from occupied territories.
According to him, Russia is trying to erase the Ukrainian identity of these children through approximately fifty special programs designed to reprogram their consciousness.

According to the head of Ukraine's propaganda department it's genocidal, not exactly convincing. This has been a surprisingly clean war

 

[barreness]

There has been many comparisons between Hitler and Putin.
This article discusses "DISTURBING HISTORICAL PARALLELS".

Opinion: A Mistake Repeated is Not a Mistake but a Choice

Winston Churchill called World War II “the unnecessary war,” sadly that could apply to the war in Ukraine - we saw it coming but did nothing to stop it and it’s not yet peaked.

www.kyivpost.com

From the link in the article from Churhill's statements

This is but one of many such assertions. In his “Iron Curtain” Address at Fulton, Missouri in 1946, he declared his belief that the war could have been prevented “without the firing of a single shot.”

This is most likely true, but not the point you're trying to make

 

[Jamolad]

...This has been a surprisingly clean war

Dude, WTF.

There is a tree out there working hard to give you oxygen - find it, and apologise to it.

 

[Zidane98]

According to the head of Ukraine's propaganda department it's genocidal, not exactly convincing. This has been a surprisingly clean war

Putin & his child commissioner have been charged with mass deportation of minors, mass brainwashing of minors from Ukraine to Russia.

That's genocidal in itself.

 

[Zidane98]

According to the head of Ukraine's propaganda department it's genocidal, not exactly convincing. This has been a surprisingly clean war

Yeah it was that clean your soldiers had to rape & torture Ukranian civilians while invading a nation that was absolutely 0% of a threat to Russia



I get you have a script to respond off but that's one of your worst posts yet trying to make out Russia is fighting a clean war when the exact opposite is the actual truth.