Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[IlovethePies]

Ah so its a global revolution you're chasing. You have a lot of work to do.

Well I'm happy that you have understood what i mean, mate. Of course, there is alot of work to do.
Anything worthwhile requires that.

The theory i follow is Permanent Revolution - written by Leon Trotsky in 1906.

Leon Trotsky: Permanent Revolution Index Page

Leon Trotsky: The Permanent Revolution (1931) and Results and Prospects (1906)

www.marxists.org

Written 118 years ago, nothing has changed in his analysis.

The only way out of the capitalist crisis is through the establishment of an international socialist party of the working class, to lead a mass international movement of workers in every country against capitalism.

Seize control of political power, and expropriate all the billionaires, so that the massive wealth of society can be made available for human need, rather than for private profit.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

^Seems like there is alot of interest here after all in what a socialist society would look like.

Yes .... let's take someone's super intelligence, ingenuity & hard work and combine it with someone else's stupidity, ignorance & laziness .... and make the world equal as one and all get an identical share

 

[wannabejack]

Germany set for new elections after Chancellor Scholz loses confidence vote

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-opposition-chief-visits-ukraine-war-dominates-election-campaign-2024-12-09/

Merz, leader of the opposition conservatives, is a critic of Chancellor Olaf Scholz's refusal to follow Britain, France and the United States in sending Kyiv longer-range weapons capable of striking deep inside Russian territory

Scholz and Merz have both made Ukraine a campaign centrepiece in different ways.

Germany is the second largest provider of financial and military support to Ukraine after the U.S. and hosts more Ukrainian war refugees - over a million - than any other country.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Maybe you should start a thread about it.

You're welcome to launch pro socialism protests in Australia too. Perhaps you could put on a sausage sizzle.

Of the great things about our liberal capitalist democracy, one or many are allowed to show disdain for the society they live in, advocate for a different society and at the same time are allowed to live in the society that gives them liberal freedoms.

 

[Zidane98]

Well I'm happy that you have understood what i mean, mate. Of course, there is alot of work to do.
Anything worthwhile requires that.

The theory i follow is Permanent Revolution - written by Leon Trotsky in 1906.

Leon Trotsky: Permanent Revolution Index Page

Leon Trotsky: The Permanent Revolution (1931) and Results and Prospects (1906)

www.marxists.org

Written 118 years ago, nothing has changed in his analysis.

The only way out of the capitalist crisis is through the establishment of an international socialist party of the working class, to lead a mass international movement of workers in every country against capitalism.

Seize control of political power, and expropriate all the billionaires, so that the massive wealth of society can be made available for human need, rather than for private profit.

You're entitled to that belief and we're at the point where you really need to be creating your own thread about it.


However it is not relevant to the current Russian attempt to subjugate Ukraine, the people of Ukraine and / or Putin's delusional ideology of creating a new Russian empire.

 

[CD Xbow]

This is a great question, but to discuss it definitely requires another thread. Let me just say here that historically in Russia just after the October revolution there was an alternative to Stalinism, and if this alternative had won, we would be living in a totally different world today - a world without war, without starvation, and the issue of climate change would be being addressed in an international and rational manner, to name just a few differences.

Fantasy land. Russian barbarism would likely result in the same unpleasant outcomes what ever colours the winners wore.

 

[Jamolad]

^Seems like there is alot of interest here after all in what a socialist society would look like.

Then why don't you discuss it in the appropriate thread then...try here mate: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/can-a-purely-socialist-society-exist.1387888/

You know it exists, you posted in it - but you keep bringing it here like this is the only place to talk about it, and like it is something we are all interested in talking about.

 

[wannabejack]

Scholz's party included ban on Taurus long-range missiles for Ukraine in its pre-election program - Euromaidan Press

Germany's ruling Social Democratic Party has formalized opposition to sending Taurus missiles to Ukraine while facing their lowest poll numbers in years.

euromaidanpress.com

The Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD) has excluded any possibility of transferring Taurus long-range missiles to Ukraine in its pre-election program, DPA news agency, which obtained a draft of the SPD’s pre-election program, reports.

 

[wannabejack]

Australia strengthens ties with Ukraine as foreign minister makes Kyiv visit first times in ten years - Euromaidan Press

Australia deepens its commitment to Ukraine with embassy reopening and military aid expansion, marking growing Indo-Pacific concern over Russia's global threats.

euromaidanpress.com

The Ukrainian foreign minister invited Australia to participate in the Ukraine Recovery Conference in Italy next year, highlighting the importance of involving Australian companies in Ukraine’s reconstruction efforts.

 

[wannabejack]

Did Russian resistance kill one of the country's top generals?

Ukrainian sources were quick to background journalists to say they were behind the killing of Russian General Igor Kirillov. Experts say it's likely not that simple.

www.abc.net.au

Ukraine's secret service, a contract killer, resistance fighters and Russia itself could each have killed Igor Kirillov

"I think they are coming closer and closer to efficiency of Mossad of Israel," Mr Ponomarev said.
"I know for many people it is a personal dream that after they win the war, they would start hunting for the war criminals and punish them as again, in the similar fashion as Israeli's did after World War Two, when they were fighting worldwide for Nazis in the very similar way Ukrainians are dreaming about hunting Putin."

 

[Zidane98]

3 years ago Russia said this:






And there are actually people around that believe a peace deal can be negotiated with Adolf Putin.

 

[wannabejack]

3 years ago Russia said this:






And there are actually people around that believe a peace deal can be negotiated with Adolf Putin.

 

[Aussie in exile]

3 years ago Russia said this:






And there are actually people around that believe a peace deal can be negotiated with Adolf Putin.

View attachment 2190442

Russia can't be trusted on any front when it comes to peace deals. They do them

 

[IlovethePies]

Kyev was also "privileged" with the presence of Penny Wong yesterday. Wong reasserted the commitment of the Albanese government to the US-NATO proxy war against Russia. Predictably Wong declared that Australia was helping to "defend Ukrainian freedom and democracy". Any decent person would vomit at such a claim from a mouthpiece of the Albanese government, which supports the Israeli government's genocide in Gaza.

Moreover, Ukraine is not a democracy. It is a police state, ruled under martial law where elections have been suspended, and the number of political prisoners is steadily rising.

Wong announced an extra $76 million in aid for "recovery and reconstruction". $66 million will be transferred to the European Bank of Reconstruction and Development, ie funds controlled by the NATO vultures hoping to profit from the conflict.

This brings to a total of $1.6 billion the aid of the Australian government to Ukraine, $1 billion of which is direct military aid.
Australia is staking its claim to recognition and reward from the US/NATO alliance.

In her statement, Wong helped spread some more of the NATO propaganda linking the proxy war in Ukraine with the growing confrontation of US/NATO imperialism with China: "The closer ties between North Korea, China and Russia through the provision to Russia of North Korean missiles and ammunition, Chinese dual-use goods and even North Korean troops, does not bode well for security in our region.”

This statement highlights the involvement of Australian imperialism not just in the war in Ukraine, but also in stoking war against China.

 

[Bloods86]

Kyev was also "privileged" with the presence of Penny Wong yesterday. Wong reasserted the commitment of the Albanese government to the US-NATO proxy war against Russia. Predictably Wong declared that Australia was helping to "defend Ukrainian freedom and democracy". Any decent person would vomit at such a claim from a mouthpiece of the Albanese government, which supports the Israeli government's genocide in Gaza.

Moreover, Ukraine is not a democracy. It is a police state, ruled under martial law where elections have been suspended, and the number of political prisoners is steadily rising.

Wong announced an extra $76 million in aid for "recovery and reconstruction". $66 million will be transferred to the European Bank of Reconstruction and Development, ie funds controlled by the NATO vultures hoping to profit from the conflict.

This brings to a total of $1.6 billion the aid of the Australian government to Ukraine, $1 billion of which is direct military aid.
Australia is staking its claim to recognition and reward from the US/NATO alliance.

In her statement, Wong helped spread some more of the NATO propaganda linking the proxy war in Ukraine with the growing confrontation of US/NATO imperialism with China: "The closer ties between North Korea, China and Russia through the provision to Russia of North Korean missiles and ammunition, Chinese dual-use goods and even North Korean troops, does not bode well for security in our region.”

This statement highlights the involvement of Australian imperialism not just in the war in Ukraine, but also in stoking war against China.

Your bias is showing when you present the suspension of elections as anything other than the result of being invaded and occupied, by the authoritarian imperialist power you provide cover for.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Kyev was also "privileged" with the presence of Penny Wong yesterday. Wong reasserted the commitment of the Albanese government to the US-NATO proxy war against Russia. Predictably Wong declared that Australia was helping to "defend Ukrainian freedom and democracy". Any decent person would vomit at such a claim from a mouthpiece of the Albanese government, which supports the Israeli government's genocide in Gaza.

Moreover, Ukraine is not a democracy. It is a police state, ruled under martial law where elections have been suspended, and the number of political prisoners is steadily rising.

Wong announced an extra $76 million in aid for "recovery and reconstruction". $66 million will be transferred to the European Bank of Reconstruction and Development, ie funds controlled by the NATO vultures hoping to profit from the conflict.

This brings to a total of $1.6 billion the aid of the Australian government to Ukraine, $1 billion of which is direct military aid.
Australia is staking its claim to recognition and reward from the US/NATO alliance.

In her statement, Wong helped spread some more of the NATO propaganda linking the proxy war in Ukraine with the growing confrontation of US/NATO imperialism with China: "The closer ties between North Korea, China and Russia through the provision to Russia of North Korean missiles and ammunition, Chinese dual-use goods and even North Korean troops, does not bode well for security in our region.”

This statement highlights the involvement of Australian imperialism not just in the war in Ukraine, but also in stoking war against China.

Again and again you keep forgetting that Russia invaded Ukraine illegally.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Your bias is showing when you present the suspension of elections as anything other than the result of being invaded and occupied, by the authoritarian imperialist power you provide cover for.

I keep asking him why he keeps forgetting that Russia invaded Ukraine illegally, but he won't answer

 

[Bloods86]

I keep asking him why he keeps forgetting that Russia invaded Ukraine illegally, but he won't answer

He doesn't think Russia should have invaded, and they are totally bad of course ...but no need to comment on them, because they were forced into it and Ukraine defending itself in a far less aggressive manner than their invasion, is an outrageous escalation!

 

[Rob R]

Kyev was also "privileged" with the presence of Penny Wong yesterday. Wong reasserted the commitment of the Albanese government to the US-NATO proxy war against Russia. Predictably Wong declared that Australia was helping to "defend Ukrainian freedom and democracy". Any decent person would vomit at such a claim from a mouthpiece of the Albanese government, which supports the Israeli government's genocide in Gaza.

Moreover, Ukraine is not a democracy. It is a police state, ruled under martial law where elections have been suspended, and the number of political prisoners is steadily rising.

Wong announced an extra $76 million in aid for "recovery and reconstruction". $66 million will be transferred to the European Bank of Reconstruction and Development, ie funds controlled by the NATO vultures hoping to profit from the conflict.

This brings to a total of $1.6 billion the aid of the Australian government to Ukraine, $1 billion of which is direct military aid.
Australia is staking its claim to recognition and reward from the US/NATO alliance.

In her statement, Wong helped spread some more of the NATO propaganda linking the proxy war in Ukraine with the growing confrontation of US/NATO imperialism with China: "The closer ties between North Korea, China and Russia through the provision to Russia of North Korean missiles and ammunition, Chinese dual-use goods and even North Korean troops, does not bode well for security in our region.”

This statement highlights the involvement of Australian imperialism not just in the war in Ukraine, but also in stoking war against China.

So Australia's fault not Xi who
personally approved and has provided significant support directly and indirectly to Russia's unprovoked. Good to see you will support any dictators talking points, I guess you will be blaming Taiwan when millions of their civilians are killed and wounded when Xi launches his long planned murderous attack

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Aussie in exile]

He doesn't think Russia should have invaded, and they are totally bad of course ...but no need to comment on them, because they were forced into it and Ukraine defending itself in a far less aggressive manner than their invasion, is an outrageous escalation!

Well Little Legs not wanting NATO to expand has backfired on him big time with Sweden and Finland now joining NATO.

 

[IlovethePies]

Your bias is showing when you present the suspension of elections as anything other than the result of being invaded and occupied, by the authoritarian imperialist power you provide cover for.

Why could an election not be held in the unoccupied areas of Ukraine?

The reason is because such an election would allow an outlet for the tremendous opposition to the war that is surging through Ukrainian society.

That is also why the political prisoners being held in Ukraine are almost without exception anti-war and left wing.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Why could an election not be held in the unoccupied areas of Ukraine?

The reason is because such an election would allow an outlet for the tremendous opposition to the war that is surging through Ukrainian society.

That is also why the political prisoners being held in Ukraine are almost without exception anti-war and left wing.

The war started by Russia don't forget.

 

[Bloods86]

Why could an election not be held in the unoccupied areas of Ukraine?

The reason is because such an election would allow an outlet for the tremendous opposition to the war that is surging through Ukrainian society.

That is also why the political prisoners being held in Ukraine are almost without exception anti-war and left wing.

Because it wouldn't be democratic.

Because it would divert resources from administration and defence, of a nation being invaded, occupied and ethnically cleansed.

Because it would provide easy targets for Russia who attacks civilians as a strategy.

 

[IlovethePies]

So Australia's fault not Xi who
personally approved and has provided significant support directly and indirectly to Russia's unprovoked. Good to see you will support any dictators talking points, I guess you will be blaming Taiwan when millions of their civilians are killed and wounded when Xi launches his long planned murderous attack

On SM-A136B using BigFooty.com mobile app

a) The narrative of Putin's "unprovoked war" is a propaganda fantasy, bearing no relationship to reality. Therefore, any conclusions you draw from that assumption are certain to be false.

b) In the lead up to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, in late Jan 2022 Chinese foreign minister Wang called on Washington and its allies to "remain calm and refrain from doing things to stimulate tension". He indicated his government's support for Russia's position by stating that the “reasonable security concerns [of Russia] should be taken seriously and resolved.”

He directly linked the Chinese support for Russian security concerns to the provocations being carried out by the US in regard to Taiwan. He accused the US of "causing new shocks in the relationship between the US and China", and warned the US against playing with fire in Taiwan.

It is the US which regularly holds provocative military drills in the South China Sea, just off the coast of Taiwan and through the Taiwan Straits.

There is no island just off the US coast which the US government considers a renogade state for historical reasons being used regularly as a staging point for Chinese military drills. Imagine what you would be saying if there were.

c) When the One-China policy of the US was introduced in 1972, the so called threat of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan disappeared. During the 1990's and early 2000's this policy was maintained.

Pelosi's visit to Taiwan in 2022 indicated the final break down of the former One-China policy:

A Foreign Ministry spokesman for the Chinese government at the time stated: "Despite China’s serious concerns and firm opposition, Pelosi insisted on visiting Taiwan, seriously interfering in China’s internal affairs, undermining China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, trampling on the One China policy, and threatening the peace and stability of the Taiwan Strait”

It wasn't China that went ahead with the destruction of this policy, it was the Biden administration.

In answer to your question: if Xi invades Taiwan it will be due to the provocations of US imperialism. In other words, any such invasion would parallel Putin's invasion of Ukraine. It would be absolutely reactionary and barbaric, resulting in hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths, but the fundamental cause would not be the psychopathic mentality of Xi, but rather the drive of US Imperialism to conquer the world and eliminate its rivals.

The US is willing to risk the deaths of hundreds of thousands in Taiwan, just as it is doing in Ukraine now, in order to engage China in an endless war aimed at weakening it and making it more vulnerable to American economic and military aggression.

 

[tricknologist]

Ukraine is conducting a defensive war against a country that's notorious for using election interference as a means of sowing social discord. Oh gee I wonder why they've suspended elections.