Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

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This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...
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IlovethePies said:
Why could an election not be held in the unoccupied areas of Ukraine?

The reason is because such an election would allow an outlet for the tremendous opposition to the war that is surging through Ukrainian society.

That is also why the political prisoners being held in Ukraine are almost without exception anti-war and left wing.
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Because it wouldn't be democratic.

Because it would divert resources from administration and defence, of a nation being invaded, occupied and ethnically cleansed.

Because it would provide easy targets for Russia who attacks civilians as a strategy.
 
Rob R said:
So Australia's fault not Xi who
personally approved and has provided significant support directly and indirectly to Russia's unprovoked. Good to see you will support any dictators talking points, I guess you will be blaming Taiwan when millions of their civilians are killed and wounded when Xi launches his long planned murderous attack

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a) The narrative of Putin's "unprovoked war" is a propaganda fantasy, bearing no relationship to reality. Therefore, any conclusions you draw from that assumption are certain to be false.

b) In the lead up to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, in late Jan 2022 Chinese foreign minister Wang called on Washington and its allies to "remain calm and refrain from doing things to stimulate tension". He indicated his government's support for Russia's position by stating that the “reasonable security concerns [of Russia] should be taken seriously and resolved.”

He directly linked the Chinese support for Russian security concerns to the provocations being carried out by the US in regard to Taiwan. He accused the US of "causing new shocks in the relationship between the US and China", and warned the US against playing with fire in Taiwan.

It is the US which regularly holds provocative military drills in the South China Sea, just off the coast of Taiwan and through the Taiwan Straits.

There is no island just off the US coast which the US government considers a renogade state for historical reasons being used regularly as a staging point for Chinese military drills. Imagine what you would be saying if there were.

c) When the One-China policy of the US was introduced in 1972, the so called threat of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan disappeared. During the 1990's and early 2000's this policy was maintained.

Pelosi's visit to Taiwan in 2022 indicated the final break down of the former One-China policy:

A Foreign Ministry spokesman for the Chinese government at the time stated: "Despite China’s serious concerns and firm opposition, Pelosi insisted on visiting Taiwan, seriously interfering in China’s internal affairs, undermining China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, trampling on the One China policy, and threatening the peace and stability of the Taiwan Strait”

It wasn't China that went ahead with the destruction of this policy, it was the Biden administration.

In answer to your question: if Xi invades Taiwan it will be due to the provocations of US imperialism. In other words, any such invasion would parallel Putin's invasion of Ukraine. It would be absolutely reactionary and barbaric, resulting in hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths, but the fundamental cause would not be the psychopathic mentality of Xi, but rather the drive of US Imperialism to conquer the world and eliminate its rivals.

The US is willing to risk the deaths of hundreds of thousands in Taiwan, just as it is doing in Ukraine now, in order to engage China in an endless war aimed at weakening it and making it more vulnerable to American economic and military aggression.
 
Ukraine is conducting a defensive war against a country that's notorious for using election interference as a means of sowing social discord. Oh gee I wonder why they've suspended elections.
 
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IlovethePies said:
Kyev was also "privileged" with the presence of Penny Wong yesterday. Wong reasserted the commitment of the Albanese government to the US-NATO proxy war against Russia. Predictably Wong declared that Australia was helping to "defend Ukrainian freedom and democracy". Any decent person would vomit at such a claim from a mouthpiece of the Albanese government, which supports the Israeli government's genocide in Gaza.

Moreover, Ukraine is not a democracy. It is a police state, ruled under martial law where elections have been suspended, and the number of political prisoners is steadily rising.

Wong announced an extra $76 million in aid for "recovery and reconstruction". $66 million will be transferred to the European Bank of Reconstruction and Development, ie funds controlled by the NATO vultures hoping to profit from the conflict.

This brings to a total of $1.6 billion the aid of the Australian government to Ukraine, $1 billion of which is direct military aid.
Australia is staking its claim to recognition and reward from the US/NATO alliance.

In her statement, Wong helped spread some more of the NATO propaganda linking the proxy war in Ukraine with the growing confrontation of US/NATO imperialism with China: "The closer ties between North Korea, China and Russia through the provision to Russia of North Korean missiles and ammunition, Chinese dual-use goods and even North Korean troops, does not bode well for security in our region.”

This statement highlights the involvement of Australian imperialism not just in the war in Ukraine, but also in stoking war against China.
Click to expand...

Lol at Australian Imperialism, we can't even take our own country over.
 
tricknologist said:
Ukraine is conducting a defensive war against a country that's notorious for using election interference as a means of sowing social discord. Oh gee I wonder why they've suspended elections.
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Except that Ukraine is not involved in a "defensive war"

It is involved in an imperialist war of aggression with US/NATO at war with Russia, and Ukraine is the proxy in the middle.
 
IlovethePies said:
Except that Ukraine is not involved in a "defensive war"

It is involved in an imperialist war of aggression with US/NATO at war with Russia, and Ukraine is the proxy in the middle.
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Nah, Ukraine was invaded and they're protecting their territory from a racist and belligerent neighbour. Ain't nobody got time for that vatnoid claptrap.
 
IlovethePies said:
Except that Ukraine is not involved in a "defensive war"

It is involved in an imperialist war of aggression with US/NATO at war with Russia, and Ukraine is the proxy in the middle.
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Ukraine are defending themselves against genocide and you are blaming Ukraine. Any belied Ukraine is not responding from their own position, is racism.

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Mobbs said:
Ukraine are defending themselves against genocide and you are blaming Ukraine. Any belied Ukraine is not responding from their own position, is racism.

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Yeah, keep forgetting how many times I have to repeat this.

The Ukrainian government is involved in an imperialist war of aggression against Russia, and is willingly sending ever more young Ukrainian men to die for the profit interests of Ukrainian oligarchs and their NATO/US financial backers.

The rest of Ukrainian society is being held to ransom by the criminals and fascists in the Zelensky government.
 

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IlovethePies said:
I challenge you, you lying a**hole...find one quote of mine that supports genocide.

You and your likeminded sidekicks here are the ones gunning for mass murder, of both young Ukrainian men and young Russian men.
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You actively defend Russia's genocide. Endlessly shown over and over. No lies here. Too easy, scum.

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IlovethePies said:
a) The narrative of Putin's "unprovoked war" is a propaganda fantasy, bearing no relationship to reality. Therefore, any conclusions you draw from that assumption are certain to be false.

b) In the lead up to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, in late Jan 2022 Chinese foreign minister Wang called on Washington and its allies to "remain calm and refrain from doing things to stimulate tension". He indicated his government's support for Russia's position by stating that the “reasonable security concerns [of Russia] should be taken seriously and resolved.”

He directly linked the Chinese support for Russian security concerns to the provocations being carried out by the US in regard to Taiwan. He accused the US of "causing new shocks in the relationship between the US and China", and warned the US against playing with fire in Taiwan.

It is the US which regularly holds provocative military drills in the South China Sea, just off the coast of Taiwan and through the Taiwan Straits.

There is no island just off the US coast which the US government considers a renogade state for historical reasons being used regularly as a staging point for Chinese military drills. Imagine what you would be saying if there were.

c) When the One-China policy of the US was introduced in 1972, the so called threat of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan disappeared. During the 1990's and early 2000's this policy was maintained.

Pelosi's visit to Taiwan in 2022 indicated the final break down of the former One-China policy:

A Foreign Ministry spokesman for the Chinese government at the time stated: "Despite China’s serious concerns and firm opposition, Pelosi insisted on visiting Taiwan, seriously interfering in China’s internal affairs, undermining China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, trampling on the One China policy, and threatening the peace and stability of the Taiwan Strait”

It wasn't China that went ahead with the destruction of this policy, it was the Biden administration.

In answer to your question: if Xi invades Taiwan it will be due to the provocations of US imperialism. In other words, any such invasion would parallel Putin's invasion of Ukraine. It would be absolutely reactionary and barbaric, resulting in hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths, but the fundamental cause would not be the psychopathic mentality of Xi, but rather the drive of US Imperialism to conquer the world and eliminate its rivals.

The US is willing to risk the deaths of hundreds of thousands in Taiwan, just as it is doing in Ukraine now, in order to engage China in an endless war aimed at weakening it and making it more vulnerable to American economic and military aggression.
Click to expand...
Russia attacked Ukraine. Ukraine did not attack Russia. Absolutely unequivocally unprovoked.
Any argument pretending this us not true, is aligned with pro-genocidal evil.

If you think Ukraine's opinion doesn't matter, then you're also racist

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Mobbs said:
Russia attacked Ukraine. Ukraine did not attack Russia. Absolutely unequivocally unprovoked.
Any argument pretending this us not true, is aligned with pro-genocidal evil.

If you think Ukraine's opinion doesn't matter, then you're also racist

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Click to expand...
umm....you're forgetting how I answered that...

To claim that the invasion was unprovoked is to forget about all the history leading up to it.

It is exactly the same as claiming that Hamas carried out an unprovoked attack on Israel (though you probably think that as well).

I think Ukrainian opinion does matter, but not that of its government. That of its working class.

You are a disgrace in your defence of a brutal imperialist war which could lead to a nuclear conflict, and which is lkilling a whole generation of youth across both Ukraine and Russia.

I am for the future.

You are for the past.
 
Bloods86 said:
Your bias is showing when you present the suspension of elections as anything other than the result of being invaded and occupied, by the authoritarian imperialist power you provide cover for.
Click to expand...

Australian imperialism. Had to laugh at that.

Don't think I've seen a bigger vatnik in this thread and that's saying something as we've had some pearlers since the full scale invasion.
 
IlovethePies said:
Yeah, keep forgetting how many times I have to repeat this.

The Ukrainian government is involved in an imperialist war of aggression against Russia, and is willingly sending ever more young Ukrainian men to die for the profit interests of Ukrainian oligarchs and their NATO/US financial backers.

The rest of Ukrainian society is being held to ransom by the criminals and fascists in the Zelensky government.
Click to expand...
You keep forgetting that Russia invaded Ukraine illegally for Little Legs ego
 

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Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

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