Ball not traded

[Cuz2Plugger]

I'll leave you and let you drown in your own hypocrisy

Apparently the real stumbling block was St Kilda's demand that Millionaire Hotseat be taken off air effective immediately, all previous tape of the show burned and salt sown on the 530 slot like Carthage.

Collingwood agreed to to this on Monday, promising Eddie another Master Chef rip off pilot or the offer of killing Bert Newton (unplugging the life support machine, look carefully you can see the little wires) and taking his 20-1 slot, but did a backflip on Friday after the Hey Hey fiasco.

Harry Connick Jnr could do naught but feign outrage that a show hosted by Spud McGuire, that rates effectively minus, is still on the air, relating that Collingwood was 'the Land time forgot'. He said that if you tried that shit in the US, you'd get the bejeezus kicked out of you.

 

[SnowCool]

Originally Posted by Jabso View Post
Early in the week they indicated that Goldsack and 30 was more or less what they'd accept. Both parties seemed to agree on that so they both went their own ways to pursue Jolly, Lovett and Peake trades thinking the Ball trade would be simple.

Come Friday they would not accept 25 and Goldsack.

FFS quit f*cken us around

Copeland find us some written evidence of Collingwood putting Goldsack on the table, you won't, because they never did.

St kilda may of raised the possibily but, 1. collingwood may not of allowed him to go OR Goldsack may of refused to go.

At the end of the day pick 25 wasn't good enough, and you know it.

 

[HFF]

How might the other players react to this? Won't happen

IMO I hope Ball stays and in return is part of the 2010 Saints flag......no chance the wobbles are going to be in the playoffs for the GF next year with or without him.

By adding Jolly to that list of flogs wont get them to the level set by us or the Cats.

Copeland find us some written evidence of Collingwood putting Goldsack on the table, you won't, because they never did.

St kilda may of raised the possibily but, 1. collingwood may not of allowed him to go OR Goldsack may of refused to go.

At the end of the day pick 25 wasn't good enough, and you know it.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/saints-star-may-walk-for-nothing/2009/10/09/1255019612835.html


Prior to the pick 25 arrangement Collingwood had pitched other scenarios to St Kilda. The last of these yesterday morning involved an offer the Saints had raised earlier in the week - Tyson Goldsack and pick 30 - but were turned down.

Is that good enough for you?


Also, stats, the club has more than $400K to juggle.

The players won't react to anything. If Ball gets to Collingwood, he will be payed what he is worth over the term of his contract.

There'd easily be a cool $1m cap space at the moment.

 

[greenred]

I think that he will nominate for the national draft instead of waiting for the pre-season draft in an attempt to be selected by Collingwood with pick #30. This will mean that he will have to place a first year price of about $900,000-$1,000,000 on his head to prevent other clubs from selecting him, and Collingwood will have to juggle player payments for next season to free-up about $400,000 to accommodate that. His second year will then be $250,000-$350,000, and then the third season will be $250,000.

If he nominates his payment terms, it is for a minimum of 2 years. The AFL aren't completely stupid and at least attempt to prevent this type of draft tampering.

 

[stats]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/saints-star-may-walk-for-nothing/2009/10/09/1255019612835.html


Prior to the pick 25 arrangement Collingwood had pitched other scenarios to St Kilda. The last of these yesterday morning involved an offer the Saints had raised earlier in the week - Tyson Goldsack and pick 30 - but were turned down.

Is that good enough for you?


.

I was under the impression St Kilda did not at any time say yes to any player offered, they did not want Goldsack but suggested he be used to get a better pick for us.

 

[sainter]

Thanks pies fans, feel free to continue discussing this issue on your own board.

 

[Inter]

Ok now his is starting to sh*t me heaps. How could collingwood even think that we would except any pick above 20. Seaby went for 22 and williams for 16. Grow up they stuffed up not us. In the end he may well get to the pies anyway but at the end of the day if no way is it our fault for this trade

 

[goodie23]

Ok now his is starting to sh*t me heaps. How could collingwood even think that we would except any pick above 20. Seaby went for 22 and williams for 16. Grow up they stuffed up not us. In the end he may well get to the pies anyway but at the end of the day if no way is it our fault for this trade

Well apparently Collingwood fans believe we should be angry at our club for standing on principle and not agreeing to get bent over.

Hope they maintain the same attitude when one of theirs asks for a trade.

 

[KissStephanie]

If he nominates his payment terms, it is for a minimum of 2 years. The AFL aren't completely stupid and at least attempt to prevent this type of draft tampering.

If Luke Ball gets to Collingwood, then he will be paid what he is worth over the term of his contract. Of the $7,700,000 salary cap, Collingwood probably has more than $1,000,000 available, so if he places close to that figure on his head, then Collingwood should have no worries being able to fit that into the salary cap in each of the next two seasons. The contract can then be changed once a player is picked-up, which is what would happen if it is Collingwood that picks him.

If another club picks him up though, they would have to pay $1,000,000 in both of his first two seasons, but that won't happen because it is much more than he is worth. Now although that figure will be counted in both 2010 and 2011, it won't be what he is paid in 2011 and 2012, so the approximate amount of what I stated still stands, which is about $1,500,000 over three years. Collingwood should therefore be able to get Luke Ball in the national draft with pick #30 and it won't be considered draft tampering.
__________________
"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - Ross Lyon - 27th September, 2009.

 

[stats]

Melbourne say they are interested and they have plenty of money.....maybe more clubs will be talking to his manager now?

 

[KissStephanie]

Melbourne say they are interested and they have plenty of money.....maybe more clubs will be talking to his manager now?

His manager has stated to Melbourne that he would like to play for Collingwood, so I don't think Luke Ball will talk directly to other teams when he gets back from his holiday. Geoff Walsh has stated that Collingwood will try to find a way to select him in the national draft, which could be a risk to another club if it involves a huge two year contract, even if they can fit it in the salary cap because it's way over value. I also believe that Ball would rather go to a club of his choice instead of to a club that Ross Lyon is trying to force him to.
__________________
"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - Ross Lyon - 27th September, 2009.

 

[goodie23]

Well I suppose it depends what he wants. Whether he wants out of St Kilda or wants to play for Collingwood. Does he still want to play for Collingwood? And is he prepared to go into the National?

 

[stats]

The wobbles seem so desperate to get him but valued him #30 and a player that would play VFL for us?

Wanted to give nothing and that didn't work so now its suggested they rort the ND to get him.....all for a player THEY put little value on?

No wonder the recruiting of 10 years BY MM has produced a team of spuds that are light years behind the Saints and Cats and is still falling.

Maybe another top 8 club from this year will make contact and an offer will be too good to refuse.......The wobbles had him in there grasp but would not close it now you have to rely on other clubs to deal with, some clubs who you have burnt in the past

 

[Alpha Male]

I have absolutely no doubt that Collingwood can manage this for one season. I was speaking to my brother who is a CPA, and he has no doubt either. The only problem is that there is still a risk that another club could select him, but I don't think they would with that sort of figure for one year. He seems very keen to join Collingwood, and I'm sure the club are going to do everything possible to help make that happen.Well he certainly isn't going to stay at St.Kilda. Not only did they prevent the trade from occurring, but they have withdrawn the contract as well. He is uncontracted and unwanted and there is obviously bad blood between Luke Ball and Ross Lyon. If a contract is offered, it will be significantly less than the previous one because St.Kilda's salary cap is so tight now.

It seems that St.Kilda is punishing him for wanting to leave, and trying to dictate which teams he can and can't play for, and he does not want to play for Melbourne. Therefore, I don't expect him to wait for the pre-season draft, so I'm sure he will take the risk in the national draft so that Collingwood can select him with pick #30. As I said though, to put other clubs off, Collingwood is going to have to juggle the salary cap, but I have no doubt that can be done for one season.

I heard Ross Lyon yesterday stating that there are two choices that Luke Ball can make, and that is to stay at Sr.Kilda and earn his new contract and position in the team, or take his chances in the pre-season draft. It seems that he was unaware that there were other options that can also be taken. Luke Ball was in tears yesterday, and he doesn't deserve that. I'm sure he is angry as wel, and I am certainly aware that Collingwood are after St.Kilda decided to change their mind about their initial agreement.

"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - Ross Lyon; 27th September, 2009.

You seem to have it all worked out. Do you know Luke personally? You seem to know exactly what he is thinking.

Unfortunately the Saints don't have to delist Ball until AFTER the lodgement for the National Draft is closed, meaning Ball will be going into the PSD if he doesn't sign. He could nominate massive dollars and Melbourne and Sydney would both pounce before the Pies. If he threatens to retire he would never play again once the AFL is done with him. It may introduce free agency in some form but the reason players don't challenge the system is because they know it works and that the first person to try anything will be destroyed and turned into a martyr.

You also seem to think this is about money. Ball stated the he would take less than our original offer if it meant more game time. This isn't about $$$ it's about Ball's career and the legacy he wants to leave on the game. He seems to want to be remembered as a great player rather than a player in a great team. I don't know that for sure it's just my interpretation on everything I've read. Like the arguement you made. Just an opinion.

The argument that Lyon isn't moving him on is also BS because we can delist him into the PSD. He would still have been moved on correct? We just don't get anything in return and while that might seem silly anything we were offered wasn't going to help us in the next 2-4 years.

I think Ball will re-sign. I hope he does. Lyon rates Ball. He was dropped because he wasn't playing as well as he could. Koschitzke, Dal Santo, Milne and Gram all copped the same treatment. Everyone thinks Lyon doesn't rate Matt Maguire but the truth was that he had to spend a year in the VFL to get himself right. Nathan Brown came back from a broken leg and was never the same. The Saints have the option of waiting.

Ball won't be playing for Collingwood next year.

Sorry Steph...

 

[Alpha Male]

If Luke Ball gets to Collingwood, then he will be paid what he is worth over the term of his contract. Of the $7,700,000 salary cap, Collingwood probably has more than $1,000,000 available, so if he places close to that figure on his head, then Collingwood should have no worries being able to fit that into the salary cap in each of the next two seasons. The contract can then be changed once a player is picked-up, which is what would happen if it is Collingwood that picks him.

If another club picks him up though, they would have to pay $1,000,000 in both of his first two seasons, but that won't happen because it is much more than he is worth. Now although that figure will be counted in both 2010 and 2011, it won't be what he is paid in 2011 and 2012, so the approximate amount of what I stated still stands, which is about $1,500,000 over three years. Collingwood should therefore be able to get Luke Ball in the national draft with pick #30 and it won't be considered draft tampering.
__________________
"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - Ross Lyon - 27th September, 2009.

Just wanted to quote this to restate my point about Melbourne and Sydney, both of whom would be more than happy to pay Ball any price he wants for 2 years. If he wanted to leave for the Pies after that it'd be okay but would Buckley really want a 27 year old with OP when he is going to have Sidebottom, Beams, Macaffer, Swan, Didak etc dominating the midfield?

It's the PSD or nothing Steph. Players can nominate for the National Draft but not until they are delisted and we don't have to delist him until after the lodgement is closed.

 

[Spirit of 39]

His manager has stated to Melbourne that he would like to play for Collingwood, so I don't think Luke Ball will talk directly to other teams when he gets back from his holiday. Geoff Walsh has stated that Collingwood will try to find a way to select him in the national draft, which could be a risk to another club if it involves a huge two year contract, even if they can fit it in the salary cap because it's way over value. I also believe that Ball would rather go to a club of his choice instead of to a club that Ross Lyon is trying to force him to.


__________________
"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - Ross Lyon - 27th September, 2009.

He can not nominate a club that he wants to go to in the National Draft. That is called draft tampering.

 

[Cuz2Plugger]

He can not nominate a club that he wants to go to in the National Draft. That is called draft tampering.

Not Ball tampering?

 

[Sainters66]

I don't see why people are raising a marginal loss in the GF as some kind of sign you are screwed without Ball. If it wasn't wet I felt that the Saints would have won comfortably. It was just unfortunate that it was wet that day given we are still in a drought.

ZWIM, you are a very wise man.

To the rest of the Colon Wood supporters. Piss off.

 

[Squizz]

Originally Posted by Jabso View Post
Early in the week they indicated that Goldsack and 30 was more or less what they'd accept. Both parties seemed to agree on that so they both went their own ways to pursue Jolly, Lovett and Peake trades thinking the Ball trade would be simple.
Come Friday they would not accept 25 and Goldsack.

A bogan and a bullshitter - nice combination Dopeland.

The Saints were told that Goldsack would not form part of a second round pick + player combination.

We had inquired about Brown, Goldsack and some 19yo I've never heard of.

 

[Squizz]

Is KissStephanie a real person, or a just a computer program which types in random thoughts any time someone types the word "Collingwood" or "Filth" or "KS is a _ucking moron" in a post?

Yeah, I'm sure Collingwood can just renegotiate every players' salary so they can give Ball $1m in the first year to scare other clubs off. Are you for real? Your brother must be one of the CPA's out there who still use their fingers to count.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

His manager has stated to Melbourne that he would like to play for Collingwood, so I don't think Luke Ball will talk directly to other teams when he gets back from his holiday. Geoff Walsh has stated that Collingwood will try to find a way to select him in the national draft, which could be a risk to another club if it involves a huge two year contract, even if they can fit it in the salary cap because it's way over value. I also believe that Ball would rather go to a club of his choice instead of to a club that Ross Lyon is trying to force him to.
__________________
"If anyone's not up for the challenge, they can walk in and tell me and I'll move them on." - Ross Lyon - 27th September, 2009.

Yeah it will all pan out that way because it is Collingwood and everyone always falls over to help Collingwood. You really don't get it do you.

Personally I think Ball would be best to talk to Melbourne. They have offered him Vice Captaincy ( with possibility for Captaincy in the future ).
I think it is this type of recognition within the side (that he has lost with the Saints) that would appeal to him, more so than the dirty Collingwood money you are talking about.

 

[Squizz]

If Luke Ball gets to Collingwood, then he will be paid what he is worth over the term of his contract. Of the $7,700,000 salary cap, Collingwood probably has more than $1,000,000 available, so if he places close to that figure on his head, then Collingwood should have no worries being able to fit that into the salary cap in each of the next two seasons. The contract can then be changed once a player is picked-up, which is what would happen if it is Collingwood that picks him.

If another club picks him up though, they would have to pay $1,000,000 in both of his first two seasons, but that won't happen because it is much more than he is worth. Now although that figure will be counted in both 2010 and 2011, it won't be what he is paid in 2011 and 2012, so the approximate amount of what I stated still stands, which is about $1,500,000 over three years. Collingwood should therefore be able to get Luke Ball in the national draft with pick #30 and it won't be considered draft tampering.

Well someone's clearly had their brain tampered with.

If I say the word "lobotomy", do you have flashbacks?

 

[krusden]

Well someone's clearly had their brain tampered with.

If I say the word "lobotomy", do you have flashbacks?

Kiss Stephanie is like a pie version of NH IMO.

Typical arrogant pie pig.

 

[Squizz]

Don't really get into conspraicy theories. The fact is Ball hadn't nominated us until Monday, which is late. Yep - he just woke up on Monday and nominated Collingood without having had in depth discussions with the club.

His trade value gave you little bargaining power. I rate Ball. He is worth a Pick 20 to 25. Oxymoron alert!!!

History dictates that once you hit 30, you reach a point of diminishing returns as a player. Yes, history also dictated that we wouldn't win every game interstate this year, or win 20 games in a season. Thankfully history didn't have a chance to catch up for a coffee with Harvey when he turned 30, and will maybe spare Lenny.

I don't doubt this but he is very 1 paced. He's stagnated after being taken in a draft 3 years ago. Armitage sure stooged those umpires in Launceston who gave him 3 votes.

You have a good 22 but not much after that, Watched many of the Sandringham games have you?

as for Lovett, meh, he wasn't good enough to be voted in Essendon's top 10 in their B&F. You're kidding yourself if you think he doesn't add something positive to the team

The GF showed you lack types who put their head over the ball, No - we lacked guys who put the ball through the big sticks.

Thanks for your input, but it seems you could've had a nice conversation with your different personalities or challenged your own logic (before having a crack at others).

 

[Squizz]

Kiss Stephanie is like a pie version of NH IMO.

I think we discussed a NH-KS trade, but in typical Collingwood fashion they held back on the packet of Burger Rings that was critical to getting the deal done.

At least NH knows when it's trolling.