Opinion Being Port Adelaide: 1998/2006/2017

[longdonkey]

It wasn't a fluke that we won in 2004. What had happened is we got a couple more guys in (Hardwick Bishop). Also our younger players were a year older with a bit more experience and a good amount of players had best ever years. It all added up to the premiership win.

How much better were Brisbane than us in 00-03 well lets say they were not substantially better but were a bit further advanced and maybe had one or 2 more absolute star players. Things could have worked out different and a bit more equitable but it didn't work out that way and they got the job done and we didn't.

 

[SonOfKek]

Unrelated but is Gustavo Nunes going to be the next Ronaldinho?

 

[ElectricG]

Here:

Paulo’s Power in Brazil

Love for the club never too much for this Power supporter

www.portadelaidefc.com.au

The main part to your question:

Unreal. Cheers.

Any immediate plans to make the trip over?

 

[TeeKray]

It's hard to describe how big an effort it was to get back to the grand final in '07. Yes it was a bit of a weak year but it's basically the equivalent of if Richmond made the grand final this year. The result was horrific so nobody remembers but if we somehow won that game it would've been the greatest premiership win this century by any team.

 

[Chewy316]

Yes. I know that.

I remember Lockhart Road telling how hard it was to fire Russell Ebert. Everyone wanted him to succeed. Still, something was lacking. I can’t see why it would be any different with Choco.

It makes harder because ultimately he won. No one is denying that. However, how fluke was 2004? Didn’t Choco need to answer that?

I imagine that we entered 2004 with Choco forced to at least reach a GF to keep his job. If not, something was already wrong, don’t you agree?

Then, we won. Awesome! That’s the whole point of our existence. We will be forever grateful for it. Still, why would that reset the count for Choco?

In 2005, there was a restart at the club. A lot of people left. All true. But Choco stayed; and he still carried the weight of all those losses with him.

Ultimately, in 2006, there was nothing telling us that Choco could take us there again. Was there?

I remember Lockhart Road telling how hard it was to fire Russell Ebert. Everyone wanted him to succeed. Still, something was lacking. I can’t see why it would be any different with Choco.

To suggest that 2004 was a fluke highlights your lack of awareness to the situation at the time. 2004 couldn't have been anything less of a fluke.

You're isolating the choking aspect of that era and putting Choco front and centre as the person responsible for it. With all due respect, the entire Club wore that label - it wasn't just Choco. Everyone knew he was a brilliant coach, he was getting the absolute most out of the players, the players bought into him and the entire program etc. It was all mental.

Choco's contract expired at the end of 2004, and I'm fairly certain that no one thought his job was ever in peril. The Club at the time - including its supporter base, could not have been more united. The mental issues identified were carried by the entire Club, and responsibility was not laid on a single individual. It's why no one blinked when Choco was re-signed for a further 2 years mid season in 2004 (I think the Club were 9-4 at the time and had dealt with an extensive injury list that Ken Hinkley would no doubt use as an excuse if it happened to him).

When they won in 2004, they got the proverbial "monkey off their back." The chokers label was gone for good. They were now premiership winners, not chokers. So your notion that Choco "carried the weight of all those losses with him" is fundamentally flawed.

In 2006, everyone acknowledged it was a rebuild year very early on. Expectations were not to win the flag that year by any means. It's why they blooded a ton of youngsters to accelerate the rebuild, and by the end of the 2006 season, a lot of players showed promise and they won some pretty big games. That Showdown win at the end of 2006 against the Crows was an amazing win and solidified to EVERYONE that Port were on the right track given that the Crows were top of the ladder at the time. And the two weeks prior they beat the Bulldogs up in Darwin (who made the semi finals that year) and only lost to Collingwood by 2 points who finished 5th on the ladder. So the signs were clear that the rebuild was accelerating.

Internally, when they brought Darren Burgess on for the 2005 season, he acknowledged it was going to take 3 years to get the young players coming through to the requisite fitness levels necessary. It's why 2007 was seen as the year to take advantage of the young players developing with a few of the older brigade from 2004 carrying the team.

It's hard to describe how big an effort it was to get back to the grand final in '07. Yes it was a bit of a weak year but it's basically the equivalent of if Richmond made the grand final this year. The result was horrific so nobody remembers but if we somehow won that game it would've been the greatest premiership win this century by any team.

That 2007 team was so much fun to watch. They were deserved grand finalists having won 12 of their past 14 games (including beating Hawthorn and Geelong on the road in consecutive weeks late in the year) and were on a 6 game win streak entering the grand final.

Their inability to adequately address the 2007 grand final is the biggest blight on the organisation in its AFL history. Mentally scarred the entire team (and fan base) and yet no one at the Club ever wanted to properly address it. It was like fight club - the first rule being you don't talk about the 2007 grand final.

Even if they had only lost by 5 goals on that day, that would have kept the window open for a few more years given the rise of Boak, Gray, Westhoff etc coming through. But the door slammed shut that day, and it was a Club wide failure which nearly sent the Club into oblivion during the Primus years.

EDIT: Just following up on the 2007 Grand Final - the construction of the team was so young. Had they properly addressed the disaster of that game, the window would have been wide open to compete for a number of years. The following players were aged 27 or less at the time of that game:

Michael Pettigrew 22
Toby Thurstans 27
Jacob Surjan 22
Domenic Cassisi 25
Troy Chaplin 21
Steve Salopek 22
Kane Cornes 24
David Rodan 24
Daniel Motlop 25
Danyle Pearce 21
Justin Westhoff 20
Brett Ebert 23
Chad Cornes 27
Shaun Burgoyne 24
Travis Boak 19
Brad Symes 22
Tom Logan 22

That's 17 of the 22 players aged 27 or less, and 15 of those were 25 or less. That should have been the new era of Port challenging for the flag for the next 3-4 seasons at least, especially with other young players coming through in future years like Robbie Gray, Nathan Krakouer, Alipate Carlile, Jackson Trengove and Hamish Hartlett.

I still remember round 1 the following year - a grand final rematch against Geelong at Footy Park on Easter Thursday. Lost by 9 points, and The Advertiser front page headline read something along the lines of "110 points better than last time, but still not good enough."

It just highlighted the mental demons that were going to be entrenched in this team if the Club didn't address them (which they obviously didn't).

 

[longdonkey]

To suggest that 2004 was a fluke highlights your lack of awareness to the situation at the time. 2004 couldn't have been anything less of a fluke.

You're isolating the choking aspect of that era and putting Choco front and centre as the person responsible for it. With all due respect, the entire Club wore that label - it wasn't just Choco. Everyone knew he was a brilliant coach, he was getting the absolute most out of the players, the players bought into him and the entire program etc. It was all mental.

Choco's contract expired at the end of 2004, and I'm fairly certain that no one thought his job was ever in peril. The Club at the time - including its supporter base, could not have been more united. The mental issues identified were carried by the entire Club, and responsibility was not laid on a single individual. It's why no one blinked when Choco was re-signed for a further 2 years mid season in 2004 (I think the Club were 9-4 at the time and had dealt with an extensive injury list that Ken Hinkley would no doubt use as an excuse if it happened to him).

When they won in 2004, they got the proverbial "monkey off their back." The chokers label was gone for good. They were now premiership winners, not chokers. So your notion that Choco "carried the weight of all those losses with him" is fundamentally flawed.

In 2006, everyone acknowledged it was a rebuild year very early on. Expectations were not to win the flag that year by any means. It's why they blooded a ton of youngsters to accelerate the rebuild, and by the end of the 2006 season, a lot of players showed promise and they won some pretty big games. That Showdown win at the end of 2006 against the Crows was an amazing win and solidified to EVERYONE that Port were on the right track given that the Crows were top of the ladder at the time. And the two weeks prior they beat the Bulldogs up in Darwin (who made the semi finals that year) and only lost to Collingwood by 2 points who finished 5th on the ladder. So the signs were clear that the rebuild was accelerating.

Internally, when they brought Darren Burgess on for the 2005 season, he acknowledged it was going to take 3 years to get the young players coming through to the requisite fitness levels necessary. It's why 2007 was seen as the year to take advantage of the young players developing with a few of the older brigade from 2004 carrying the team.



That 2007 team was so much fun to watch. They were deserved grand finalists having won 12 of their past 14 games (including beating Hawthorn and Geelong on the road in consecutive weeks late in the year) and were on a 6 game win streak entering the grand final.

Their inability to adequately address the 2007 grand final is the biggest blight on the organisation in its AFL history. Mentally scarred the entire team (and fan base) and yet no one at the Club ever wanted to properly address it. It was like fight club - the first rule being you don't talk about the 2007 grand final.

Even if they had only lost by 5 goals on that day, that would have kept the window open for a few more years given the rise of Boak, Gray, Westhoff etc coming through. But the door slammed shut that day, and it was a Club wide failure which nearly sent the Club into oblivion during the Primus years.

EDIT: Just following up on the 2007 Grand Final - the construction of the team was so young. Had they properly addressed the disaster of that game, the window would have been wide open to compete for a number of years. The following players were aged 27 or less at the time of that game:

Michael Pettigrew 22
Toby Thurstans 27
Jacob Surjan 22
Domenic Cassisi 25
Troy Chaplin 21
Steve Salopek 22
Kane Cornes 24
David Rodan 24
Daniel Motlop 25
Danyle Pearce 21
Justin Westhoff 20
Brett Ebert 23
Chad Cornes 27
Shaun Burgoyne 24
Travis Boak 19
Brad Symes 22
Tom Logan 22

That's 17 of the 22 players aged 27 or less, and 15 of those were 25 or less. That should have been the new era of Port challenging for the flag for the next 3-4 seasons at least, especially with other young players coming through in future years like Robbie Gray, Nathan Krakouer, Alipate Carlile, Jackson Trengove and Hamish Hartlett.

I still remember round 1 the following year - a grand final rematch against Geelong at Footy Park on Easter Thursday. Lost by 9 points, and The Advertiser front page headline read something along the lines of "110 points better than last time, but still not good enough."

It just highlighted the mental demons that were going to be entrenched in this team if the Club didn't address them (which they obviously didn't).

In my opinion, we cut way too hard after 2004, and our drafting in 2004 & 2005 was a disaster. I think we would have been better served carrying some veterans and trading for some established players to keep us at the top from 2005 through to 2010. Our 2 failed years at the draft table plus the 2007 capitulation was the cause of those 2 years towards the bottom. If you look at the 2004 draft other than the top few players that draft didn't produce many long term players.

If we want to speak about 2007 I agree with what you said and it probably needed to be addressed at the time. Being such a young team it obviously affected them more than if their were more old heads around and those heads were not Cornes'.

I guess its not unprecedented look at how the Cows handled their GF loss.

 

[Willsy10]

The draw cannot be used as an excuse when in 2015 Port lost to Carlton and Brisbane (who finished 18th and 17th on the ladder that year), and in 2016 Port lost to Carlton (14th), Fremantle (16th) and Melbourne (11th).

A draw as in a drawn game. It was mentioned we went 3-16-1 against top 8 teams 2016-17 but i do not recall a draw those years.

 

[Alberton Proud]

tl:dr version

No player, coach or administrator is bigger than the club; no matter who you are

We've let this happen too many times in our recent history

 

[Chewy316]

A draw as in a drawn game. It was mentioned we went 3-16-1 against top 8 teams 2016-17 but i do not recall a draw those years.

No, a draw as in the fixture. My apologies for the confusion.

 

[Andre]

To suggest that 2004 was a fluke highlights your lack of awareness to the situation at the time. 2004 couldn't have been anything less of a fluke.

You're isolating the choking aspect of that era and putting Choco front and centre as the person responsible for it. With all due respect, the entire Club wore that label - it wasn't just Choco. Everyone knew he was a brilliant coach, he was getting the absolute most out of the players, the players bought into him and the entire program etc. It was all mental.

Choco's contract expired at the end of 2004, and I'm fairly certain that no one thought his job was ever in peril. The Club at the time - including its supporter base, could not have been more united. The mental issues identified were carried by the entire Club, and responsibility was not laid on a single individual. It's why no one blinked when Choco was re-signed for a further 2 years mid season in 2004 (I think the Club were 9-4 at the time and had dealt with an extensive injury list that Ken Hinkley would no doubt use as an excuse if it happened to him).

When they won in 2004, they got the proverbial "monkey off their back." The chokers label was gone for good. They were now premiership winners, not chokers. So your notion that Choco "carried the weight of all those losses with him" is fundamentally flawed.

In 2006, everyone acknowledged it was a rebuild year very early on. Expectations were not to win the flag that year by any means. It's why they blooded a ton of youngsters to accelerate the rebuild, and by the end of the 2006 season, a lot of players showed promise and they won some pretty big games. That Showdown win at the end of 2006 against the Crows was an amazing win and solidified to EVERYONE that Port were on the right track given that the Crows were top of the ladder at the time. And the two weeks prior they beat the Bulldogs up in Darwin (who made the semi finals that year) and only lost to Collingwood by 2 points who finished 5th on the ladder. So the signs were clear that the rebuild was accelerating.

Internally, when they brought Darren Burgess on for the 2005 season, he acknowledged it was going to take 3 years to get the young players coming through to the requisite fitness levels necessary. It's why 2007 was seen as the year to take advantage of the young players developing with a few of the older brigade from 2004 carrying the team.



That 2007 team was so much fun to watch. They were deserved grand finalists having won 12 of their past 14 games (including beating Hawthorn and Geelong on the road in consecutive weeks late in the year) and were on a 6 game win streak entering the grand final.

Their inability to adequately address the 2007 grand final is the biggest blight on the organisation in its AFL history. Mentally scarred the entire team (and fan base) and yet no one at the Club ever wanted to properly address it. It was like fight club - the first rule being you don't talk about the 2007 grand final.

Even if they had only lost by 5 goals on that day, that would have kept the window open for a few more years given the rise of Boak, Gray, Westhoff etc coming through. But the door slammed shut that day, and it was a Club wide failure which nearly sent the Club into oblivion during the Primus years.

EDIT: Just following up on the 2007 Grand Final - the construction of the team was so young. Had they properly addressed the disaster of that game, the window would have been wide open to compete for a number of years. The following players were aged 27 or less at the time of that game:

Michael Pettigrew 22
Toby Thurstans 27
Jacob Surjan 22
Domenic Cassisi 25
Troy Chaplin 21
Steve Salopek 22
Kane Cornes 24
David Rodan 24
Daniel Motlop 25
Danyle Pearce 21
Justin Westhoff 20
Brett Ebert 23
Chad Cornes 27
Shaun Burgoyne 24
Travis Boak 19
Brad Symes 22
Tom Logan 22

That's 17 of the 22 players aged 27 or less, and 15 of those were 25 or less. That should have been the new era of Port challenging for the flag for the next 3-4 seasons at least, especially with other young players coming through in future years like Robbie Gray, Nathan Krakouer, Alipate Carlile, Jackson Trengove and Hamish Hartlett.

I still remember round 1 the following year - a grand final rematch against Geelong at Footy Park on Easter Thursday. Lost by 9 points, and The Advertiser front page headline read something along the lines of "110 points better than last time, but still not good enough."

It just highlighted the mental demons that were going to be entrenched in this team if the Club didn't address them (which they obviously didn't).

The club got a second chance to address this when the Essendon shit came to light, but by then with Koch and co. at the helm, we didn't hear anything about it. I'm sure if McLean, Weber or Bucky had been in charge something would have been called out.

 

[GremioPower]

Unrelated but is Gustavo Nunes going to be the next Ronaldinho?

It's too soon to tell. I didn't know Ronaldinho would become Ronaldinho at the time he left.

 

[GremioPower]

A draw as in a drawn game. It was mentioned we went 3-16-1 against top 8 teams 2016-17 but i do not recall a draw those years.

It's the 2017 Elimination Final. The game ended in a 60-60 draw. We lost in OT.

 

[GremioPower]

To suggest that 2004 was a fluke highlights your lack of awareness to the situation at the time. 2004 couldn't have been anything less of a fluke.

You're isolating the choking aspect of that era and putting Choco front and centre as the person responsible for it.

No, that's your misunderstanding. My point is precisely that the CLUB wasn't Port Adelaide while dealing with Choco. This isn't about Choco. He's just part of the story.

 

[GremioPower]

Unreal. Cheers.

Any immediate plans to make the trip over?

Unfortunately, no.