Recommitted Ben King [contracted and staying at Gold Coast]

[Duckimus Prime]

You mean having the same NGA rules for years and then finally putting a stop to it the year we got JUH..? How is that helping us? And what’s it got to do with Ben King?

They changed it, after you got JUH. Thats how they helped you.

Under the current rules, JUH would be a Crow. You wouldn't have had the opportunity to match the bid on him, as you can now only match first round bids for father-son players, not Academy players.

And do people seriously think a team in Tasmania is going to be anymore successful at holding on to players than one on the Gold Coast?

 

[MickG88]

I was OK reading your post until you came up with the usual crap 'moving to Tasmania'. Growth in QLD is unbelievable especially girls. Just watched recently girls academies Suns vs Lions. The talent on display was fantastic. Yes, Tasmania deserves a team but it can only dream about market value compared to QLD.

By the way, I was pretty shocked to find out that AFL contribution to St Kilda in 2020 was only 300K less than to Suns. So what does it say about a potential team candidate to move to Tasmania? One of 10 teams in Melbourne who needs the same support as the expansion team in growing market?

Not sure what people expected from Suns when Witts and all his backups went down by round 3. Seven wins is actually not that bad considering the hole in the middle they had no fix for and fielding the youngest line-up in most rounds. Also the last 4-5 rounds Suns had missing 8-10 best 22. Just look at your team St Kilda without Marshall and Ryder. How did you go? Imagine if you lost 4 ruck options for half season and in the second half you got only Smith after PCL with no tank who was not even VFL quality.

Not sure why you think that all young players will only stay if Suns overpay them. In fact, most players are very happy on GC and committed to the cause. The team is very close. Start winning more and players will happily stay and Suns will turn into destination similar to Lions. Yes, Suns got so much top talent that I believe that they will follow GWS path in a couple of years by letting some players go for picks.

Budarick, Bowes, Weller best 22. Davies, Jeffrey should make it too.

I didn't mention Gold Coast moving to Tasmania, I said that when Tasmania get a team they will be the project and the suns won't get as much help anymore. The "they" I was referring to was the AFL not the Suns.

So your telling me a future Brownlow medal winner and Coleman medal winner are going to want to be paid the big bucks? King will want a big contract to stay, like he is getting now with help from the AFL.
Rowell will have giant offers thrown at him from other teams and you think he will just stay because he likes the culture up there.

I not having a dig at Gold Coast as the Saints were in a similar position this year with injuries, I know the pain. I was mentioning how Gold Coast need to play finals next year to show some of the young player that there is light at the end of the tunnel because you look at May, Lynch, Caddy and Prestia who all have a premiership after leaving the Gold Coast. I don't believe Dew is the right coach for the Suns, you guys need an experienced coach who can right the ship like Sheedy did at GWS. Sheedy made the Giants what they are today.

 

[adogsfan5]

They changed it, after you got JUH. Thats how they helped you.

Under the current rules, JUH would be a Crow. You wouldn't have had the opportunity to match the bid on him, as you can now only match first round bids for father-son players, not Academy players.

And do people seriously think a team in Tasmania is going to be anymore successful at holding on to players than one on the Gold Coast?

So they purposely “helped us” by making the NGA changes after last years draft rather than before it? Did they actively ring the bulldogs and ask us what we preferred?
I find it quite amusing that nobody mentions Lachie Jones. Where would he be if the changes were made sooner?
You do realise that rumours of the changes started in around July/August last year which is a few months before the draft. Were you expecting them to change the NGA rules in that short period?

 

[Jirik13]

I didn't mention Gold Coast moving to Tasmania, I said that when Tasmania get a team they will be the project and the suns won't get as much help anymore. The "they" I was referring to was the AFL not the Suns.

Sorry, I misread your sentence. My apology.

Of course, other clubs are interested in Suns top talent. And of course, they will be paid well. It does not mean they automatically leave if they get higher offer somewhere else or they all have to be over-paid. E.g., Powell and Ballard, who could go anywhere and possibly for more money and yet re-signed until 2025 and both declaring love for the club, coach. Powell said he stays with the club until they don't want him. And yes, Suns need to start winning and taste success. Wins make everybody happy and players are more willing to stay for less. But it's not black and white. Also as I said already, I believe in a couple of years Suns will not be able to keep all that talent similar to GWS and some players will drop out.

Just to speculate if St Kilda pays Max let's say 800K if does not mean that Suns have to pay Ben 1M otherwise he leaves. The same salary will/could do.

Another misconception is that Suns draftees spend 2-3 years on GC and then leave. All those players you mentioned spent 6-8 years with Suns. Caddy was the only draftee in Suns history (they wanted to keep) leaving after 2 years.

Personally, I believe Suns have 1-2 years to start winning more and I think they will. Age and experience profile improves in 2022, injured players back, Witts with a decent backup, top talent reaching 50+ games, another pre-season.

I am minority, but I am happy to give Dew next year to start reaping benefits of rebuild. People forget that e.g., Goodwin had Roos doing heavy lifting first 3 years before taking over in 2017 and yet he was under most pressure entering this year. Plenty of other coaches were close to be fired before success including Clarko, Hardwick.

 

[MickG88]

So they purposely “helped us” by making the NGA changes after last years draft rather than before it? Did they actively ring the bulldogs and ask us what we preferred?
I find it quite amusing that nobody mentions Lachie Jones. Where would he be if the changes were made sooner?
You do realise that rumours of the changes started in around July/August last year which is a few months before the draft. Were you expecting them to change the NGA rules in that short period?

They changed the rules of the game in the same amount of time, why couldn't they change how the draft works in two months. 18 grown men have to get their heads around a new rule, not every player.

 

[adogsfan5]

They changed the rules of the game in the same amount of time, why couldn't they change how the draft works in two months. 18 grown men have to get their heads around a new rule, not every player.

Doesn’t seem like something you can just switch a few months out from a draft after all the planning that had been done for clubs. It’s an extremely silly comparison.
Would make the most sense for it to be the following year. It’s pretty simple - if you had a decent NGA pick last year, you wouldn’t be making the same comment you are.

 

[boncer34]

Wasn't a issue when Sydney were raiding StKilda for Tony Lockett and Barry HALL. The AFL actually helped it happen.

Wasn't Lockett out the door anyway?

 

[staffonly]

Wasn't Lockett out the door anyway?

AFL made sure he was and he was going where they wanted him to go and what StKilda would get in return.

 

[boncer34]

AFL made sure he was and he was going where they wanted him to go and what StKilda would get in return.

Did they? I thought they only directed him North.

 

[staffonly]

Did they? I thought they only directed him North.

Yes North to Sydney.

 

[adammania9]

If I were St Kilda, i'd be using whatever Ben King would cost into the midfield. It's the one area that needs addressing. Most, if not all premiers have a stacked midfield all in their prime and a good/decent forward or two.

Brisbane - Voss, Black, Power, Lappin, Akermanis kicking to an aging Lynch and very young Brown;
Geelong - Ablett, Bartel, Kelly, Ling, Corey, Chapman kicking to Hawkins
Hawthorn - Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Burgoyne, Rioli, Smith kicking to Buddy (for 2/4) and Roughead
Richmond - Cotchin, Martin, Edwards, Prestia, Bolton kicking to Riewoldt and Lynch
Collingwood - Swan, Pendlebury, Beams, Sidebottom, Thomas

Doggies and Melbourne both won their premierships on the back of their midfields.

This is spot on. No club needs two million dollar key forwards, because they don't dominate games the way they used to. Geelong added Jeremy Cameron to a grand final team and played him with Hawkins (arguably the two best forwards going around), and got belted in finals. Didn't get close to their competitors. Franklin and Tippett before them earned a cool 2 million between them and didn't win a flag. Games are won and lost in the middle - there's no use having the most stacked forward line in the league when your midfield is so pedestrian.

There's no planet that a Steele-Crouch-Jones-Ross-Clark midfield can get St Kilda close to a grand final. If they have the resources to trade for Ben King who is already earning in the vicinity of 700k a year and they don't spend those resources on adding midfield class, I'd be filthy if I supported St Kilda

 

[boncer34]

Yes North to Sydney.

Yeah but hadn't he already come to a deal with Richmond?

I don't think the AFL pushed him out of St Kilda, they just manipulated when the opportunity arose.

 

[staffonly]

This is spot on. No club needs two million dollar key forwards, because they don't dominate games the way they used to. Geelong added Jeremy Cameron to a grand final team and played him with Hawkins (arguably the two best forwards going around), and got belted in finals. Didn't get close to their competitors. Franklin and Tippett before them earned a cool 2 million between them and didn't win a flag. Games are won and lost in the middle - there's no use having the most stacked forward line in the league when your midfield is so pedestrian.

There's no planet that a Steele-Crouch-Jones-Ross-Clark midfield can get St Kilda close to a grand final. If they have the resources to trade for Ben King who is already earning in the vicinity of 700k a year and they don't spend those resources on adding midfield class, I'd be filthy if I supported St Kilda

Think that's a simplistic view. Hawthorn won plenty with Roughead and Franklin, Brisbane with Brown and Lynch. Tippett had massive issue's for what ever reason and Cameron was injured basically all season and we are going off one year. A year when Geelong was bashed by injury when it counted.

 

[The Kings Ransom]

I didn't mention Gold Coast moving to Tasmania, I said that when Tasmania get a team they will be the project and the suns won't get as much help anymore. The "they" I was referring to was the AFL not the Suns.

So your telling me a future Brownlow medal winner and Coleman medal winner are going to want to be paid the big bucks? King will want a big contract to stay, like he is getting now with help from the AFL.
Rowell will have giant offers thrown at him from other teams and you think he will just stay because he likes the culture up there.

I not having a dig at Gold Coast as the Saints were in a similar position this year with injuries, I know the pain. I was mentioning how Gold Coast need to play finals next year to show some of the young player that there is light at the end of the tunnel because you look at May, Lynch, Caddy and Prestia who all have a premiership after leaving the Gold Coast. I don't believe Dew is the right coach for the Suns, you guys need an experienced coach who can right the ship like Sheedy did at GWS. Sheedy made the Giants what they are today.

What monetary imbursement is King getting from the AFL
I hear Saints fans mention this regularly.
Never seen it mentioned anywhere else though.

 

[adammania9]

Think that's a simplistic view. Hawthorn won plenty with Roughead and Franklin, Brisbane with Brown and Lynch. Tippett had massive issue's for what ever reason and Cameron was injured basically all season and we are going off one year. A year when Geelong was bashed by injury when it counted.

Lynch and Brown wouldn't have eaten anywhere near the piece of pie the Kings would. Neither would have Buddy and Rough in '08. They won another in 2013 and are the exception I'll cop on the chin, but keep in mind Franklin left and they won two more flags - it was the Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Burgoyne midfield that kept them up there.

 

[Wally Walpamur]

Think that's a simplistic view. Hawthorn won plenty with Roughead and Franklin, Brisbane with Brown and Lynch. Tippett had massive issue's for what ever reason and Cameron was injured basically all season and we are going off one year. A year when Geelong was bashed by injury when it counted.

They had the best midfields of the competition kicking it to them. If you can't win it and have no depth through the middle, there's no point having a stacked forward line if it's not getting in there. After Steele and arguably Hill, it falls away pretty quick. Jones is servicable, Crouch hasn't refound his Adelaide form and Hannerbry is always injured. Ross is on the decline. St Kilda need more elite mid talent, not another forward.

 

[staffonly]

Lynch and Brown wouldn't have eaten anywhere near the piece of pie the Kings would. Neither would have Buddy and Rough in '08. They won another in 2013 and are the exception I'll cop on the chin, but keep in mind Franklin left and they won two more flags - it was the Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Burgoyne midfield that kept them up there.

If you look at most game inside 50's are basically even if you can have two dominate forwards would be a huge advantage.

 

[staffonly]

They had the best midfields of the competition kicking it to them. If you can't win it and have no depth through the middle, there's no point having a stacked forward line if it's not getting in there. After Steele and arguably Hill, it falls away pretty quick. Jones is servicable, Crouch hasn't refound his Adelaide form and Hannerbry is always injured. Ross is on the decline. St Kilda need more elite mid talent, not another forward.

Oh please again a simplistic view. Getting the ball inside 50 is generally the easy aspect of the game. Scoring on the hand is the issue. Crouch by the way has played one season and was very good. Gresham 1 game Clark and Jones missed a huge part of 2021 so I've got no issue loading up the forward half.

 

[adammania9]

Oh please again a simplistic view. Getting the ball inside 50 is generally the easy aspect of the game. Scoring on the hand is the issue. Crouch by the way has played one season and was very good. Gresham 1 game Clark and Jones missed a huge part of 2021 so I've got no issue loading up the forward half.

It’s not a midfield good enough to get you to the pointy end. Membrey is a very good second tall forward, and Sharman looks likely to cut it at this level too. Higgins, Butler and Gresham (best as a small forward I think) at ground level is very potent. A top line mid would improve St Kilda so much more than any forward would

 

[staffonly]

It’s not a midfield good enough to get you to the pointy end. Membrey is a very good second tall forward, and Sharman looks likely to cut it at this level too. Higgins, Butler and Gresham (best as a small forward I think) at ground level is very potent. A top line mid would improve St Kilda so much more than any forward would

Maybe or we could land Ben King and when the next gun free agent comes out of contract he sees that and says thats where Im going.

 

[Jirik13]

King’s manager hits back at ‘disrespectful’ trade speculation

But his manager Robbie D’Orazio told the Herald Sun he hoped King would be given a chance to thrive without distracting speculation about his loyalty.

“He has been continuously linked to rivals and it’s disrespectful that it has been spoken about when all he’s trying to do is win at Gold Coast,” he told the Herald Sun.

“He is a 21-year-old trying to learn his craft and he’s had to put up with all the speculation for the past three years, literally since draft night.

“I think it’s disrespectful to the Suns as well and I know for a fact Ben doesn’t like or want the attention.

“The last conversation I had with him when we caught up was how excited he was about the list and group and how he had full faith in the coaching department and club.”


“We only did his contract last year and he kicked 47 goals in a bottom four team.

“Gold Coast are doing everything right and getting Mabior Chol

18

Mabior Chol

Age

27

Ht

200cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

5.3

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

2.3

2star

T

2.3

3star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.2

4star

helps him and they have been nothing but fantastic for Ben.”

The tight-knit young Suns are determined to build something together after so many underperforming seasons at Gold Coast.

King, Izak Rankine

23

Izak Rankine

Age

24

Ht

181cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

2.0

5star

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

2.0

5star

D

13.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

5star

G

2.0

5star

and Jack Lukosius

13

Jack Lukosius

Age

24

Ht

195cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.8

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

369.3

5star

D

14.8

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

3.3

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.8

3star

MG

369.3

5star

D

13.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

2.4

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

358.0

5star

all re-signed after only a single season at the club in deals that will expire at the end of the season.

The Suns will put a contract offer to King again over summer and he remains a chance to commit to the club again before Round 1 for several seasons.

While there is a chance he might at some stage return to play in Melbourne, his loyalty or commitment to the Suns can scarcely be questioned given his on-field contributions.

 

[SSwans2011]

Oh please again a simplistic view. Getting the ball inside 50 is generally the easy aspect of the game. Scoring on the hand is the issue. Crouch by the way has played one season and was very good. Gresham 1 game Clark and Jones missed a huge part of 2021 so I've got no issue loading up the forward half.

Look at the four final teams this year. Outside of Geelong, not a whole heap of star key forwards in that group. But, arguably the 3 best midfields in the comp in Melbourne, Dogs, and Port.

 

[staffonly]

Look at the four final teams this year. Outside of Geelong, not a whole heap of star key forwards in that group. But, arguably the 3 best midfields in the comp in Melbourne, Dogs, and Port.

That's ok but who had two gun forwards in the whole comp? No one is going to not play two elite key forwards.

 

[BrutThough]

What monetary imbursement is King getting from the AFL
I hear Saints fans mention this regularly.
Never seen it mentioned anywhere else though.

From the Herald Sun article that was posted above

"The Herald Sun revealed this year in its annual rich list King was being paid $650,000 per season in his two-year deal, with the AFL also paying him a promotional allowance."

 

[MickG88]

Look at the four final teams this year. Outside of Geelong, not a whole heap of star key forwards in that group. But, arguably the 3 best midfields in the comp in Melbourne, Dogs, and Port.

Melbourne has Ben Brown, Tom McDonald, Bailey fritsch and Sam Weiderman
Bulldogs have Aaron Naughton, Josh Bruce, Jammara Ugle Hagan
Port have Charlie Dixon, Mitch Georgiades and a ton of talented small forwards.

You don't get to top 4 without a better than good forward line, doesn't matter how good your midfield is.
You don't win a Grand final with a great midfield, it takes a great team to win.