Bendigo FL discussion 2022

[BartSimpson]

The points and salary was brought in because country clubs couldn't get close to matching metro clubs for players. The open market was killing country footy, there was bugger all ex AFL players going to the country, even know they struggle to compete with enjoyment, even though they have slightly greater salary now.

Some great constructive discussion in here gents. Some great points and differences of opinion. I don’t mind the idea of some sort of points increase/decrease depending on where you finish - far greater than the very minor adjustments (if any) that are made currently. It’s spot on that 6 points between top and bottom is way to little. Would anyone know what points Stath averaged per game last year? My point being they’ve worked hard to build a club where people come, and the vast majority seem to stay for a few years at least. So id guess they’d already be using low points (happy to be corrected if I’m wrong). The reality is no comp is ever going to have 10 teams that can beat each other on any given day. It would be nice though if we could see a rotation at the top! There is always the chat that AFL HQ should start fresh and create new leagues, divisions etc, but unless someone can convince me, I’m not sure that’s the answer either - there just wouldn’t be the same passion or pride involved.

 

[BartSimpson]

After looking at round 1 last season. The points system doesn’t look like the problem getting the bottom sides to come up.
This is what was used/allocated in round 1

Stath 33/40
E/H. 40/40
Square 32/40
Sandhurst 33/40
Gis. 28/40
Kyn 38/47
South. 36/47
Mary. 33/47
Flat. 31/50
Cast 27/47

Interesting. Surely Flat couldn’t be on 50 max points, 3 higher than Maryborough and Castlemaine?

 

[johnno#7]

The points and salary was brought in because country clubs couldn't get close to matching metro clubs for players. The open market was killing country footy, there was bugger all ex AFL players going to the country, even know they struggle to compete with enjoyment, even though they have slightly greater salary now.

Don’t agree with this. If anything the points and salary cap didn’t the opposite to what you are claiming. There were more ex-afl players running around in country leagues between 2010-2015 before the points system. Additionally taking the EDFL as an example in 2017 both grand finalist played with 48pts, Bendigo’s grand finalist played with 38pts. So not sure how that’s helping even the ledger either.

 

[KTownTigs]

Hearing strong rumours Kyneton have just announced 3 more signings to the playing group tonight

One of these has SANFL experience and currently ranked in the top 25 players in the NTFL. Will be moving to the area at the conclusion of their season.

One from VAFA premier league and one from an EDFL premier league side.

A real excitement feel around the Showgrounds atm

 

[ROOTA#6]

Hearing strong rumours Kyneton have just announced 3 more signings to the playing group tonight

One of these has SANFL experience and currently ranked in the top 25 players in the NTFL. Will be moving to the area at the conclusion of their season.

One from VAFA premier league and one from an EDFL premier league side.

A real excitement feel around the Showgrounds atm

Kyneton really should be a power of the comp with their location and obviously Chappy is now the type of coach who can draw players to the place

 

[KTownTigs]

Kyneton really should be a power of the comp with their location and obviously Chappy is now the type of coach who can draw players to the place

I disagree with the location comment, the majority of players they have just missed out on has used the travel as their reasoning.

I do believe however if the players there were speaking to that they missed out on seen that Kyneton were a top 3 or 4 side it would make the travel decision an easier one, instead of joining a side coming from a long way back and having to travel an hour plus down the calder at least 3 times a week.

A massive effort from the coaching staff to land the players they have, with a large emphasis being on bringing good people to the club, not just ones who get their pay cheque and p**s off straight away

 

[ROOTA#6]

I disagree with the location comment, the majority of players they have just missed out on has used the travel as their reasoning.

I do believe however if the players there were speaking to that they missed out on seen that Kyneton were a top 3 or 4 side it would make the travel decision an easier one, instead of joining a side coming from a long way back and having to travel an hour plus down the calder at least 3 times a week.

A massive effort from the coaching staff to land the players they have, with a large emphasis being on bringing good people to the club, not just ones who get their pay cheque and p**s off straight away

Tbe amount of high quality footballers that drive past Kyneton each week to play footy would astound you. The location of Kyneton should be an absolute selling point to metro footballers wanting to play country footy

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Don’t agree with this. If anything the points and salary cap didn’t the opposite to what you are claiming. There were more ex-afl players running around in country leagues between 2010-2015 before the points system. Additionally taking the EDFL as an example in 2017 both grand finalist played with 48pts, Bendigo’s grand finalist played with 38pts. So not sure how that’s helping even the ledger either.

It didn't help that after introducing the salary and points system, the metro clubs had a higher points allocation than many bottom clubs in the major country league's or clubs in the middle of nowhere and they had a much higher salary, during covid at least their salaries have dipped below country league's and we are seeing more players head back to the country.
I'd still suggest the points system was wanted by country clubs, as many clubs couldn't get gun players unless they were Yarrawonga or Albury before the points and salary was introduced. Then you had large groups of players all move from club to club, there was a higher mercenary rate in the game, the points system rewards local and loyal players to clubs

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Tbe amount of high quality footballers that drive past Kyneton each week to play footy would astound you. The location of Kyneton should be an absolute selling point to metro footballers wanting to play country footy

Yep unless there's a connection there they tend to keep on driving, kyentons not the greatest ground to play footy on in the middle of July.

 

[Stax on the mill]

Don’t agree with this. If anything the points and salary cap didn’t the opposite to what you are claiming. There were more ex-afl players running around in country leagues between 2010-2015 before the points system. Additionally taking the EDFL as an example in 2017 both grand finalist played with 48pts, Bendigo’s grand finalist played with 38pts. So not sure how that’s helping even the ledger either.

Johno, the EDFL grand finalists in 2017 may have been allocated a limit of 48 points, however they didn’t utilise them. Aberfeldie played with 30 points and Greenvale 31. Agree with you as a matter of principle though. The points limit in metro comps are generally too high in comparison to those in country leagues.

 

[Too Old Too Slow (TOTS)]

Johno, the EDFL grand finalists in 2017 may have been allocated a limit of 48 points, however they didn’t utilise them. Aberfeldie played with 30 points and Greenvale 31. Agree with you as a matter of principle though. The points limit in metro comps are generally too high in comparison to those in country leagues.

Agree Stax......The points system stops clubs "buying" one-off Premierships, but does nothing to create long term equalisation.

From Albury to Strath to Kyabrum strong clubs have junior pathways that provide high quality 1 point players, and this combined with excellent club cultures results in the 4 or 5 point players that are attracted to them generally staying for multiple years and ending up as a 1 or 2 point player.

If we looked at all clubs that had multiple years of success, Albury, North Bendigo, Lockington, Strath, etc they Win GFs and play in Grand Finals traditionally well below the maximum points.

 

[BartSimpson]

Tbe amount of high quality footballers that drive past Kyneton each week to play footy would astound you. The location of Kyneton should be an absolute selling point to metro footballers wanting to play country footy

Spot on, for anyone western or northern suburbs located, it’s a reasonably short drive to play in a regional comp. Gisborne even closer!

 

[BartSimpson]

Yep unless there's a connection there they tend to keep on driving, kyentons not the greatest ground to play footy on in the middle of July.

I think it’s much better now than it was in days gone by.

 

[Truck]

Some great constructive discussion in here gents. Some great points and differences of opinion. I don’t mind the idea of some sort of points increase/decrease depending on where you finish - far greater than the very minor adjustments (if any) that are made currently. It’s spot on that 6 points between top and bottom is way to little. Would anyone know what points Stath averaged per game last year? My point being they’ve worked hard to build a club where people come, and the vast majority seem to stay for a few years at least. So id guess they’d already be using low points (happy to be corrected if I’m wrong). The reality is no comp is ever going to have 10 teams that can beat each other on any given day. It would be nice though if we could see a rotation at the top! There is always the chat that AFL HQ should start fresh and create new leagues, divisions etc, but unless someone can convince me, I’m not sure that’s the answer either - there just wouldn’t be the same passion or pride involved.

2019

2021

Thanks Bendigo Addy.

Was only using Strath as an example as they are at the top.
It should be about player retention for the sides at the top and adding the odd top up player. Retaining players is easier to do at the top then the bottom.
If you take the 2019 strath g/f team - 26 points.
If they retain all those players for the next year, they roll out bloody hand team on 23 points with H.Robertson the only player over 1 point. Strath then have 17 points to go and find absolute a graders.
Obviously no footy in 2020 as made it harder to retain/manage players but from my point of view the current system is only making it harder for the bottom sides to climb the ladder.

 

[Stax on the mill]

2019
View attachment 1319665
2021
View attachment 1319663
Thanks Bendigo Addy.

Was only using Strath as an example as they are at the top.
It should be about player retention for the sides at the top and adding the odd top up player. Retaining players is easier to do at the top then the bottom.
If you take the 2019 strath g/f team - 26 points.
If they retain all those players for the next year, they roll out bloody hand team on 23 points with H.Robertson the only player over 1 point. Strath then have 17 points to go and find absolute a graders.
Obviously no footy in 2020 as made it harder to retain/manage players but from my point of view the current system is only making it harder for the bottom sides to climb the ladder.

Those 2021 figures would seem to suggest that even if you allocated teams such as Castlemaine, Maryborough and Kangaroo Flat 65 points each, it would not make any difference at all. They utilised on average only 58.5%, 69.1% and 71.7% of their points allocation in 2021.

Should those clubs be allowed a higher salary cap than the other clubs to enable them to attract some quality recruits? But then the question arises, would they be able to raise the additional money to then be able to spend it on recruiting anyway? That could be problematic. Don’t know what the answer is.

 

[BartSimpson]

Those 2021 figures would seem to suggest that even if you allocated teams such as Castlemaine, Maryborough and Kangaroo Flat 65 points each, it would not make any difference at all. They utilised on average only 58.5%, 69.1% and 71.7% of their points allocation in 2021.

Should those clubs be allowed a higher salary cap than the other clubs to enable them to attract some quality recruits? But then the question arises, would they be able to raise the additional money to then be able to spend it on recruiting anyway? That could be problematic. Don’t know what the answer is.

That’s where I was coming from with reducing the top teams salary cap, rather than increasing the lower clubs, as they likely couldn’t find the additional cap space anyway. But then as someone pointed out it would dilute the league which isn’t ideal either. It’s a tough one to try and solve.

 

[Silver Tongue]

Interesting to compare this forum with the GV forum chat. Two leagues of similar standings. This is up to 7 pages of chat… the GV up to page 30!


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Hey Bootz,
An interesting point, but I think Guru provided an appropriate response in relation to predictability of the top five sides in the BFL.

A random thought: imagine the return of traditional rivals Rochester and Echuca to the league ... throw in a side like Moama. Now that would mix things up. Remember it was only prior to Andrew Walker's return to Echuca that there were rumblings about them returning to the BFL.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

That’s where I was coming from with reducing the top teams salary cap, rather than increasing the lower clubs, as they likely couldn’t find the additional cap space anyway. But then as someone pointed out it would dilute the league which isn’t ideal either. It’s a tough one to try and solve.

You'd find top liners heading to the central murray or gv or even the Heathcote league if they dropped the salary.

Maybe Darryl Wilson needs to go to coach the Maine or Maryborough

 

[Too Old Too Slow (TOTS)]

You'd find top liners heading to the central murray or gv or even the Heathcote league if they dropped the salary.

Maybe Darryl Wilson needs to go to coach the Maine or Maryborough

Ha Darryl Wilson has a great record but if you think he would be the difference you haven't been reading any of this thread. Has he ever coached a bottom of the ladder team....... a serious question.

 

[ROOTA#6]

Ha Darryl Wilson has a great record but if you think he would be the difference you haven't been reading any of this thread. Has he ever coached a bottom of the ladder team....... a serious question.

Took Kangaroo Flat from the bottom to a prelim final

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Ha Darryl Wilson has a great record but if you think he would be the difference you haven't been reading any of this thread. Has he ever coached a bottom of the ladder team....... a serious question.

Also led Strath from outside finals to what they are now

 

[BartSimpson]

Fellas I’m hearing on the grapevine Gisborne and Kyneton have landed some impressive recruits in the past couple of weeks and also that Flat and Eaglehawk might have gone backwards as well as Sandhurst which we’ve already herd. Does anyone have any details, maybe Mr Tigs can give us some news he seems to be across things at Kyneton and gisborne. Anyone got any goss on the Bendigo clubs fellas?

 

[Bootz36]

It hasn’t really worked how I thought it would.
As it currently stands Castlemaine have 6 more points then Strath. That’s not even 2 x A grade recruits.
The gap between Strath and Maine is far bigger then 6 points.

Unpopular opinion but I think there should be some sort of deduction at the top. Eg if you win the premiership, you lose points.

Premiers - 5 points (can only go to a minimum of 30)
Runner Up - 3
3rd - 2
4th - 1
5th
6th
7th + 1
8th +2
9th +3
10th + 5 (capped at 50).
If you can’t get off the bottom with 50 points, potentially 20 more points then another side, then no manner of salary cap or player points will help you.

Same amount of points stays in the league, but the points get distributed on performance.

Good ideas raised here Truck. For the point system to work, it needs to be distributed so everyone can compete better at an even standard. “Fair” is not everyone getting the same, but getting what you need to compete at that level.
Truck - you are on to something, but instead of penalising a team for success, just give more to those who don’t. Works the same, but it’s how you say it IMO.


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[Bootz36]

Hey Bootz,
An interesting point, but I think Guru provided an appropriate response in relation to predictability of the top five sides in the BFL.

A random thought: imagine the return of traditional rivals Rochester and Echuca to the league ... throw in a side like Moama. Now that would mix things up. Remember it was only prior to Andrew Walker's return to Echuca that there were rumblings about them returning to the BFL.

Posts up and about now. Must be getting closer to some footy action at last. I hear there’re some practice matches coming up. Golden Square vs Shepp Swans in mid March I believe!


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[BartSimpson]

Good ideas raised here Truck. For the point system to work, it needs to be distributed so everyone can compete better at an even standard. “Fair” is not everyone getting the same, but getting what you need to compete at that level.
Truck - you are on to something, but instead of penalising a team for success, just give more to those who don’t. Works the same, but it’s how you say it IMO.


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The challenge is getting the lower sides to be able to use any extra points they get. Last year Castlemaine on average had 20 points per game up there sleeve.