ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
I'd like to say there was a lot of WAFL in smokey's post... But I really enjoyed it
Opinion Best 22 - 2015
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Excellent post The Smoking Gun , Lots of great ideas and most of it I agree with.
Agree about most concerns regarding Buckley's size, it may expose him at times though he seems to read the play well as a defender and appear to have balance between his defensive game and attacking game, we've had some dreadful permanent small defenders the last 15 years and he looks miles ahead of the rest. Football smarts and aggression can overcome a lack of size but we need to see it first.
Bell, every one has him penciled in as an onballer because he's big, hard at it and has a big tank and we've persisted with him there. Yet not many realises that his hands, particularly in close are no good, his first few steps off the mark are really slow, his agility isn't great, his vision isn't great and he ranks really low statistically for clearances. People also don't seem to realise he's played his best footy off the half forward flank. He's a peripheral player, you hide the mentioned weaknesses by playing him on the outside where he has time to see and handle the ball and do it under less pressure, time to build up momentum and he can run through players/tackles with that momentum. He played some great footy at half forward and off the wing last year, he was dangerous starting outside the square charging in and dangerous in the forward line where he could hit the ball running and he kicked goals doing so. Guys who fumble are missing opportunities to gain possession, it's nearly as bad or is as bad as a turnover and is a liability. Clean hands, one touch at stoppages and away we go. His go is to play as a plus 1 or a high up half forward (basically a half forward who plays as a midfielder).
Graham is in the same boat as Whiley and Cripps, he's far too good for the VFL. He's got elite ball handling skills and is developing a big strong body which is what appeals to me. The guy has skills, he's not super quick but he's no where near as slow as Mclean, I think he'll push pretty hard for a game. Development wise he's going well but this is a big year for him. Cripps may take time as some of these big midfielders do, thinking of Jobe Watson and Josh Kennedy.
As for the sub position. I'd love to see it used to rotate our younger players through the AFL. Play a different one each week. I think Boekhorst, Smith, DVR all have the ability to impact games with their pace and skill. Having a young player as sub for consecutive weeks is bad for their development, they need to be playing full games. Rotating them through the sub role gives them a bit of a week off (unless there is an early injury) which is good for first year players and gives them plenty of tastes of AFL football at the same time. I do share the same concerns regarding Boekhorst but I'll wait and see before passing judgement.
Jones I am open minded about, I've seen these sort of players come on fairly late in their careers. Schulz comes to mind. If he doesn't work out, just looking at the guys athletic profile, build and skillset, I don't see why he couldn't take the same path as Rowe and become quite a good defender. He moves a lot like some very good backmen. His build and explosive power would be really useful against some of the gun forwards. Long arms/limbs and can mark.
As for Tutt, well last year we've been crying out for a specialist small forward, many teams have one but there is no rule saying you need one. Really not taking up too much list space. Role player if played.
Giles you can only hope that he'll follow Kreuzer's path, come back successfully towards the end of this season, get some training under his belt followed by some VFL games and that'll give him plenty to take into our next preseason and season. The guy has talent and ability he just needs to get out there.
Naming our best team is really difficult. So many players who are still evolving, so many I haven't seen yet or seen much of. How to structure the team, 3 tall forwards, a third tall back who is really tall like Jaksch or a guy a bit shorter and more ability against medium/smaller opponents like White. How many inside mids V outside mids. What small/medium defenders to play, big bodies or fast and smaller.
I'm not expecting miracles this season. I'm expecting to see our team really change and evolve over this season and possibly a late finish is on the cards. Personally I am hoping for a changing of the guard in many respects through natural fruition. The coaches have a lot to learn about the players and there is a hell of a lot of new ones. Find out what they can and can't do and where they can play and how to develop their game. Big big learning year for everyone at Carlton.
Great read.
Agree about most concerns regarding Buckley's size, it may expose him at times though he seems to read the play well as a defender and appear to have balance between his defensive game and attacking game, we've had some dreadful permanent small defenders the last 15 years and he looks miles ahead of the rest. Football smarts and aggression can overcome a lack of size but we need to see it first.
Bell, every one has him penciled in as an onballer because he's big, hard at it and has a big tank and we've persisted with him there. Yet not many realises that his hands, particularly in close are no good, his first few steps off the mark are really slow, his agility isn't great, his vision isn't great and he ranks really low statistically for clearances. People also don't seem to realise he's played his best footy off the half forward flank. He's a peripheral player, you hide the mentioned weaknesses by playing him on the outside where he has time to see and handle the ball and do it under less pressure, time to build up momentum and he can run through players/tackles with that momentum. He played some great footy at half forward and off the wing last year, he was dangerous starting outside the square charging in and dangerous in the forward line where he could hit the ball running and he kicked goals doing so. Guys who fumble are missing opportunities to gain possession, it's nearly as bad or is as bad as a turnover and is a liability. Clean hands, one touch at stoppages and away we go. His go is to play as a plus 1 or a high up half forward (basically a half forward who plays as a midfielder).
Graham is in the same boat as Whiley and Cripps, he's far too good for the VFL. He's got elite ball handling skills and is developing a big strong body which is what appeals to me. The guy has skills, he's not super quick but he's no where near as slow as Mclean, I think he'll push pretty hard for a game. Development wise he's going well but this is a big year for him. Cripps may take time as some of these big midfielders do, thinking of Jobe Watson and Josh Kennedy.
As for the sub position. I'd love to see it used to rotate our younger players through the AFL. Play a different one each week. I think Boekhorst, Smith, DVR all have the ability to impact games with their pace and skill. Having a young player as sub for consecutive weeks is bad for their development, they need to be playing full games. Rotating them through the sub role gives them a bit of a week off (unless there is an early injury) which is good for first year players and gives them plenty of tastes of AFL football at the same time. I do share the same concerns regarding Boekhorst but I'll wait and see before passing judgement.
Jones I am open minded about, I've seen these sort of players come on fairly late in their careers. Schulz comes to mind. If he doesn't work out, just looking at the guys athletic profile, build and skillset, I don't see why he couldn't take the same path as Rowe and become quite a good defender. He moves a lot like some very good backmen. His build and explosive power would be really useful against some of the gun forwards. Long arms/limbs and can mark.
As for Tutt, well last year we've been crying out for a specialist small forward, many teams have one but there is no rule saying you need one. Really not taking up too much list space. Role player if played.
Giles you can only hope that he'll follow Kreuzer's path, come back successfully towards the end of this season, get some training under his belt followed by some VFL games and that'll give him plenty to take into our next preseason and season. The guy has talent and ability he just needs to get out there.
Naming our best team is really difficult. So many players who are still evolving, so many I haven't seen yet or seen much of. How to structure the team, 3 tall forwards, a third tall back who is really tall like Jaksch or a guy a bit shorter and more ability against medium/smaller opponents like White. How many inside mids V outside mids. What small/medium defenders to play, big bodies or fast and smaller.
I'm not expecting miracles this season. I'm expecting to see our team really change and evolve over this season and possibly a late finish is on the cards. Personally I am hoping for a changing of the guard in many respects through natural fruition. The coaches have a lot to learn about the players and there is a hell of a lot of new ones. Find out what they can and can't do and where they can play and how to develop their game. Big big learning year for everyone at Carlton.
Great read.
thylacine60
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forecast is for smoke and wind......
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Anyone else think Armfield still has a bit to offer our side these days ?. Def not best 22 material but you have to make allowances for injuries/spike in form/suspensions and I think Army still can be a contributor.
Deserves to get games for application and attitude reasons alone .. Still room in our game for honest toiler types.
Deserves to get games for application and attitude reasons alone .. Still room in our game for honest toiler types.
Good words.
Got a ton of time for Armfield, granted last year wasn't too flash, neither was Juddy's.
Played every final through 2 coaches, speed is his obvious asset, can tackle like a bear, and can slot a goal.
If he's in the worst 6, reckon we are on the right track
Probably just Amfields disposal that lets him down and is that kind of player that perhaps doesnt think his way through things as much as he should. Very much like Bower was where his modus operandi is just running at full tilt. Its white knuckle stuff when he gets it and takes off. I honestly love him in the side because he breaks the lines and opens the games up, but perhaps MM has seen him equally as someone who opens the games up on the defensive side by making those runs and getting caught out of position? Only 8 games in 2014 and never more than 12 disposals (although how many times was he sub?). I am not sure where MM sees him playing or how he fits into our side, but seemingly has been played as a run with tagger which seems to be a role we have covered in spades now.
Bluejob & gbatman there are many speculative selections within my Best 22, but the best part about different opinions is that it means we're slowly but surely developing a bit of depth to our list and that can only be a good thing. 
Nice sentiments to be sure, but if he's just there to make up the numbers then give his spot on the list to me. I'm not best 22 material either, but I'm an honest toiler type who could sure use an extra $300,000 a year for kicking a bit pig skin around the paddock and dodging a few witches hats. Sub me out at Quarter Time and everyone's a winner! My advice. When in doubt, shoot to kill.
Nice sentiments to be sure, but if he's just there to make up the numbers then give his spot on the list to me. I'm not best 22 material either, but I'm an honest toiler type who could sure use an extra $300,000 a year for kicking a bit pig skin around the paddock and dodging a few witches hats. Sub me out at Quarter Time and everyone's a winner! My advice. When in doubt, shoot to kill.
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Mick will not play any of the kids unless they have earned it/are ready.
Smith, Foster, Boekhorst, Rainbow, Holman etc will likely see a month to six weeks in the vfl to get their feet wet.
Never underestimate anyone who isn't round 1 starting 22. Hawthorn has a side where 30-32 of those guys are capable starting 22. Only looking to build a 22 is doomed to fail.
Smith, Foster, Boekhorst, Rainbow, Holman etc will likely see a month to six weeks in the vfl to get their feet wet.
Never underestimate anyone who isn't round 1 starting 22. Hawthorn has a side where 30-32 of those guys are capable starting 22. Only looking to build a 22 is doomed to fail.
BluStreak
Norm Smith Medallist
I agree Styxx, Mick has mentioned the Swans as having 36 players who could play on any given day.
He believes that is where our team needs to be. It generates healthy competition for spots and ensures that we have only players who want to succeed playing for us.
I can clearly see that we have 28 to 30 players on our list that we can do that with now.
We have brought in some new talent with mature bodies this year and our draftees from last year have another preseason under their belts.
Players like Dick, Tutt, Jones, Whiley, Boekhorst, Smith have been playing against men in their respective leagues. Cripps and Graham have shown that they are better than VFL standard so depending on all of their training performances, you would need to consider them in the mix for early games this year.
But, don't discount Touhy, Armfield, Ellard or Watson featuring this year either. They all know how to do the job that Mick will give them.
He believes that is where our team needs to be. It generates healthy competition for spots and ensures that we have only players who want to succeed playing for us.
I can clearly see that we have 28 to 30 players on our list that we can do that with now.
We have brought in some new talent with mature bodies this year and our draftees from last year have another preseason under their belts.
Players like Dick, Tutt, Jones, Whiley, Boekhorst, Smith have been playing against men in their respective leagues. Cripps and Graham have shown that they are better than VFL standard so depending on all of their training performances, you would need to consider them in the mix for early games this year.
But, don't discount Touhy, Armfield, Ellard or Watson featuring this year either. They all know how to do the job that Mick will give them.
thylacine60
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Smoking Gun killed my ram...
SBYM
Fish, chips, cup o' tea, Mary @#? Poppins. London!
Personally, I like posts with a bit more thought put into them...
6 players with a collective 20 AFL games between them. That's just not going to happen and it's not Mick's way.
Jaksch ahead of White?
Dick ahead of Sheehan/Tuohy?
Smith ahead of Tutt?
Whiley ahead of Carrazzo?
Viojo-Rainbow ahead of Boekhorst?
Planning for the future is good but in Mick's world you have to earn your stripes first.
There's some chance one of those players may get a run but not five............not for Mick.
HBF
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Will be exciting to see Graham and Cripps through the NAB Challenge and how they perform early in the season.
We all saw what Graham can produce last year, and Cripps looks set for a big year after dominating at VFL level.
Moe B
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Nori
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I enjoyed Smoking Gun's post but Harks has nailed it with this.
... but of those mentioned Jaksch would be the best chance IMO.
Last edited:
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For the record my potential 22 for round 1 could be.
B: White, Jamison, Tuohy
HB: Yarran, Rowe, Simpson
C: Everitt, Judd, Docherty
HF: Bell, Casboult, Menzel
FF: Jones, Henderson, Tutt
R: Kreuzer, Murphy, Gibbs
B: Graham, Thomas, Carrazzo
S: Cripps
Could mix the entire placing around and chop and change most of that too....very flexible.
B: White, Jamison, Tuohy
HB: Yarran, Rowe, Simpson
C: Everitt, Judd, Docherty
HF: Bell, Casboult, Menzel
FF: Jones, Henderson, Tutt
R: Kreuzer, Murphy, Gibbs
B: Graham, Thomas, Carrazzo
S: Cripps
Could mix the entire placing around and chop and change most of that too....very flexible.
Moe B
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White best 22?? Really?
Moe B
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And couldnt find space for soj, hes way ahead of graham and cripps!
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You do need to keep in mind I said potentially.
Clearly Buckley will be pegged for a defensive role based off of his early season work last year so I can't name him in the forward line. He is going to be fighting for a back six position.
One change I will make is drop Cripps move Graham to sub and place Curnow in the team as I legit forgot him.
Clearly Buckley will be pegged for a defensive role based off of his early season work last year so I can't name him in the forward line. He is going to be fighting for a back six position.
One change I will make is drop Cripps move Graham to sub and place Curnow in the team as I legit forgot him.
Moe B
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Soj could run thru the mid and swap with simo, he did play a few but I didn't really enjoy any... Probably wouldn't be in most teams 22! Just my opinion though
Moe B
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Doc is another 1 of those running backs, we got quite a few of them! Maybe I'm biased because i love the soj! Still havent figured out what type a player white is tbh
Moe B
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Could we really have Curnow and carrots in the same team? I think boekhorst for 1 of those positions, based on the fact that we need more run...
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We have had both in the side on many occasions over the journey. Curnow isn't as slow as most people tend to think he is and he had the biggest tank in the side. Very underrated as far as structure goes.
Carrots has done enough for a start. If he needs to make way during the season then so be it. Injuries and suspension will see enough changes.
12 months ago you wouldn't have had Sam Rowe at CHB or even in the leadership group. Things will move around.
Carrots has done enough for a start. If he needs to make way during the season then so be it. Injuries and suspension will see enough changes.
12 months ago you wouldn't have had Sam Rowe at CHB or even in the leadership group. Things will move around.
Is it only me that thinks Cripps, Graham, Whiley > Carrots?
Carrots is done IMO, turnover champ, even though he bleeds Blue.
Carrots is done IMO, turnover champ, even though he bleeds Blue.
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