List Mgmt. Best 22 - 2018

[_RT_]

Miles, Lloyd, Short, Menadue, Stengle, Bolton, Garthwaite, Drummond, Higgins (yes a new draftee is a better prospect than CEllis), Griffiths (not sure why you are excluding him ,,, I don't rate him but do higher than CEllis), Conca .... I was ne short. Eleven better.
Your argument is a joke, You do anything to omit names ... such as Conca doesn't count, because Big Footy wrote him off. It's like saying Astbury is the Tigers' best player but only beaus we are leaving out Brownlow medallists an onballers!

As I expected you throw in guys that can't play the same role guys that you have continually rubbished and even a draftee to make your point valid then claim my argument is a joke.

Care to explain why a week or so ago when I posted that Ellis along with a handful of others should get a crack at being best 22 in 2018 you agreed with it, maybe you just missed his name being part of the discussion.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

I think CEllis will prove you wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Big year for CEllis, shows glimpses but then goes missing.

One thing i noticed reading the Yellow and Black book is they seem to hold him in high regard. Also 2016 was somewhat of a write off with a close mate of his passing his head really wasnt in football mode.

I still reckon he will make it, going to be mighty tough for spots though which is great for the football club.

 

[Goldust]

As I expected you throw in guys that can't play the same role guys that you have continually rubbished and even a draftee to make your point valid then claim my argument is a joke.

Care to explain why a week or so ago when I posted that Ellis along with a handful of others should get a crack at being best 22 in 2018 you agreed with it, maybe you just missed his name being part of the discussion.

If 2017 showed anything it was that the best 22 will play ....... regardless of height, position, etc., hence I have taller and smaller players, some forwards, some defenders and some midfielders ahead of CEllis, who I don't rate. He's poor under pressure, fragile and injury prone and simply we can do a lot better than him. Simple! But go ahead and keep changing the goal posts to suit your argument, if you actually have an argument, Your posts just wreak of 'having to disagree with me for the sake of it'. So full credit to you.
And yes, there are blokes on my list I have rubbished, namely Griffiths, but he's a better bet than your poster boy CEllis.

 

[sanaya]

I understand that Broad misses out on the first 3 games so I know he won't be in our rd1 best 22, but the bloke has played 12 AFL games in his career, 12. Played the last 10 games of this season and was great at defending players of any size, has a red hot crack, isn't afraid to throw his weight around, and has a decent tank. Sure his skills aren't elite but you can't ask for everything from a bloke you plucked at pick 67 but they're still decent. His versatility is what makes him so important for our backline. He's like a budget Rance.

Another thing is everyone uses the same "if <insert player> has a big preseason" etc etc, well guess what, Broad is also doing a preseason! Believe me, I'd love it if a player passes him and takes his spot, because that should mean our 22 is improving. But as it stands he should be a lock in my opinion.

Although I think he could be screwed because looking at our fixture after week 3 we shouldn't really be dropping any games for a while (getting ahead of myself? never!) so he might not be able to find a place back into the side until later lol. Good luck to the bloke.

 

[sanaya]

Also I hope that Castagna can find a way to fumble less, I really like him and Butler in the fwd line. Those 2 pretty much just played their first season of AFL footy this year.

George scored a goal in 16/25 games with a total of 26 goals

Rioli scored a goal in 16/25 games with a total of 25 goals

The pressure George puts on is huge too.

So I really hope he can keep his spot.

But Bolton is there with his x-factor as shown in the VFL grand final's first quarter I think it was where he tore it up. But then in the same game we saw his lack of tank. So I hope this preseason can improve it a bit.

And Higgins is also there as a small fwd or potential extra fwd/mid rotation who's schtick will be just pure work rate + football IQ and ability. Sure he hasn't played against men yet but he seems the type who would thrive getting thrown in the deep end.

I love Stengle too but he's behind these guys I feel.

Some good competition for spots is nice for once.

Although I can't act like I know more than even a fifth of what the coaches do, I'm just excited to watch the development of our young list over the next year. Got a bunch of good players and personalities playing for the Tigers. There will be some unlucky players who will miss out, but it's up to them to work hard and push their case for selection. Feels good to be the premiers of the comp.

 

[_RT_]

If 2017 showed anything it was that the best 22 will play ....... regardless of height, position, etc., hence I have taller and smaller players, some forwards, some defenders and some midfielders ahead of CEllis, who I don't rate. He's poor under pressure, fragile and injury prone and simply we can do a lot better than him. Simple! But go ahead and keep changing the goal posts to suit your argument, if you actually have an argument, Your posts just wreak of 'having to disagree with me for the sake of it'. So full credit to you.
And yes, there are blokes on my list I have rubbished, namely Griffiths, but he's a better bet than your poster boy CEllis.

Ellis isn't my poster boy. I just don't agree with posters writing the kid of before he has had clean shot at it. As I said this preseason will be the first he completes without an injury interruption since arriving at the club. If that happens and he still struggles to crack into the 22 then ask questions, but writing him off is poor form.

 

[Goldust]

Ellis isn't my poster boy. I just don't agree with posters writing the kid of before he has had clean shot at it. As I said this preseason will be the first he completes without an injury interruption since arriving at the club. If that happens and he still struggles to crack into the 22 then ask questions, but writing him off is poor form.

He is coming from a long way back in the field - as I suggested - there are plenty ahead of him. He has barely fired a shot to this point and if injuries are that much of a concern, move him on and get someone fit in. We are better than that to carry injury prone blokes for five, six, seven years (as we have done with Griffiths).
I don't know whether I admire or loathe your ability to put every single Tiger player on a pedestal and can only accept adulation and effusive praise of each one and are unable to accept any critique of a player, be it major or minor. Incredible!
There have been several posters on here question his ability to impact the contest and his performance under pressure. Do you take issue with each one of them for expressing a view, or do you simply form your views to directly oppose me each time? That's how it comes off .... Goldy says this, I'm disagreeing.
It will be up to CEllis as to which way it goes ... but he has A LOT of work ahead of him. His inability to play much senior football was little to do with pre-season but due to performance.

 

[Gosha]

He is coming from a long way back in the field - as I suggested - there are plenty ahead of him. He has barely fired a shot to this point and if injuries are that much of a concern, move him on and get someone fit in. We are better than that to carry injury prone blokes for five, six, seven years (as we have done with Griffiths).
I don't know whether I admire or loathe your ability to put every single Tiger player on a pedestal and can only accept adulation and effusive praise of each one and are unable to accept any critique of a player, be it major or minor. Incredible!
There have been several posters on here question his ability to impact the contest and his performance under pressure. Do you take issue with each one of them for expressing a view, or do you simply form your views to directly oppose me each time? That's how it comes off .... Goldy says this, I'm disagreeing.
It will be up to CEllis as to which way it goes ... but he has A LOT of work ahead of him. His inability to play much senior football was little to do with pre-season but due to performance.

My thoughts exactly re: Ellis.

 

[Goldust]

My thoughts exactly re: Ellis.

Thanks Gosh! There are certain people who post here who want to paint me out as the bad guy ... or wrong guy! But I am on record as being a n unabashed supporter of Lambert, Houli and Grigg, just as much as I have been adamant we'll go nowhere with spuds like Griffiths, 'Hands on Hips' Hampson, CEllis, Morris etc. I was adamant early on we needed a guy like Nankervis to actually compete and not have a Hammer who wins tap outs and do nothing else, but flogs like RT will continue to talk me down and pint me out to be a s... bloke. But fact is I get a bit right without being a fanboi and declaring undying adulation. My views on Ellis hold weight as he as he has done bugger all, despite excuse after excuse. If he is picked in our round 20 team v Geelong he's fit and ready to go. Pre-season is not a factor. He was poor.

 

[_RT_]

He is coming from a long way back in the field - as I suggested - there are plenty ahead of him. He has barely fired a shot to this point and if injuries are that much of a concern, move him on and get someone fit in. We are better than that to carry injury prone blokes for five, six, seven years (as we have done with Griffiths).
I don't know whether I admire or loathe your ability to put every single Tiger player on a pedestal and can only accept adulation and effusive praise of each one and are unable to accept any critique of a player, be it major or minor. Incredible!
There have been several posters on here question his ability to impact the contest and his performance under pressure. Do you take issue with each one of them for expressing a view, or do you simply form your views to directly oppose me each time? That's how it comes off .... Goldy says this, I'm disagreeing.
It will be up to CEllis as to which way it goes ... but he has A LOT of work ahead of him. His inability to play much senior football was little to do with pre-season but due to performance.

I disagreed with TI about Ellis this year when I went and watched the VFL a few times this year and gave reviews on the players.

I have never said Ellis doesn't have things to work on, it's clear he does, but at the same time I have seen glimpses of why he is so highly rated within the club. What I have constantly said about him is that he needs to get a clear run at it before we write him off.

It's interesting how apparently I can't take criticism of players but go back and look at the staunch support given by yourself and others of Miles when he was constantly being overlooked. Every time his deficiencies were mentioned they were totally ignored and all that was sprouted was how he continued to get disposals. Hypocrisy at its finest right there.

Finally just on Ellis' lack of performance this year, you are aware that he was dealing with the death of a close friend that supposedly knocked him around quite a bit. But I guess footballers aren't allowed to have things like that interfere with their ability to perform at the standards we expect them too.

BTW I engage you in discussion as you're one who can discuss a topic without getting overly personal about it. Some others I choose to let slide as a reasonable discussion is nigh on impossible.

 

[Greg Tivendale]

FB: Vlastuin - Astbury - Grimes
HB: Houli - Rance - Broad
C: B Ellis - Cotchin - Edwards
HF: Martin - Townsend - Caddy
FF: Castagna - Riewoldt - Rioli
R: Nankervis - Prestia - Lambert

INT: Graham - Butler - McIntosh - Grigg
EMG: Bolton, Menadue, Higgins, Markov, Conca, Lloyd, Miles, Griffiths, Short (Throw a blanket over them)

Above is the grand final side. Only changes I can see happening are:

Bolton in for ?? (Castagna possibly, although I think George is a flawed genius, creates a heap of opportunities but finds a way to stuff up the easy stuff)
I also don't think long term that Caddy and Townsend can play in the same team. Both do a similar role but would wait for that to fail before changes.
Higgins in for ?? (surely the highly rated cub makes his way in but I can't find someone to make way)
Some kind of assistance for Nank is needed, bloke can't ruck all year and have Grigg as his main backup.

Miles (mids)
Menadue (wings/HB)
Markov (wings/HB)
Conca (HB)
Short (utility)

all backup depth.


Broad suspension means Menadue/Markov or Short gets a go at it early (unless we back Garthwaite in)
Rioli injury means Bolton will get a crack early also.

 

[HumanMeatball]

If 2017 showed anything it was that the best 22 will play ....... regardless of height, position, etc., hence I have taller and smaller players, some forwards, some defenders and some midfielders ahead of CEllis, who I don't rate. He's poor under pressure, fragile and injury prone and simply we can do a lot better than him. Simple! But go ahead and keep changing the goal posts to suit your argument, if you actually have an argument, Your posts just wreak of 'having to disagree with me for the sake of it'. So full credit to you.
And yes, there are blokes on my list I have rubbished, namely Griffiths, but he's a better bet than your poster boy CEllis.

Ellis might make it and might not. Excellent vfl form so will be interesting

 

[mopsy]

Thanks Gosh! There are certain people who post here who want to paint me out as the bad guy ... or wrong guy! But I am on record as being a n unabashed supporter of Lambert, Houli and Grigg, just as much as I have been adamant we'll go nowhere with spuds like Griffiths, 'Hands on Hips' Hampson, CEllis, Morris etc. I was adamant early on we needed a guy like Nankervis to actually compete and not have a Hammer who wins tap outs and do nothing else, but flogs like RT will continue to talk me down and pint me out to be a s... bloke. But fact is I get a bit right without being a fanboi and declaring undying adulation. My views on Ellis hold weight as he as he has done bugger all, despite excuse after excuse. If he is picked in our round 20 team v Geelong he's fit and ready to go. Pre-season is not a factor. He was poor.

lol im used to that sort of treatmentfrom fanboi posters. Get one thing wrong and they dine out on it for yrs but never do the acknowledge when your right which is most oif the time.

 

[_RT_]

lol im used to that sort of treatmentfrom fanboi posters. Get one thing wrong and they dine out on it for yrs but never do the acknowledge when your right which is most oif the time.

 

[HumanMeatball]

lol im used to that sort of treatmentfrom fanboi posters. Get one thing wrong and they dine out on it for yrs but never do the acknowledge when your right which is most oif the time.

Moopsy literally nothing you have said this year has been right

 

[08elf]

This will be the first preseason that Ellis completes without an injury interruption since arriving at the club. As I mentioned last week in the Yellow and Black book Ellis was best on ground in a scratch match first week out of rehab last summer. The kid has the talent just needs a clean run at it.

What sort of injuries does he keep doing to for him to be out of the first team for so long each year?

 

[_RT_]

What sort of injuries does he keep doing to for him to be out of the first team for so long each year?

He came to us with a foot injury in his first preseason, think he had a shoulder injury in his second summer and then last summer he had a leg injury again that caused him to miss a chunk of the preseason. During the year he has had a couple of soft tissue injuries that cause him issues. Nothing overly serious, just the normal sprains and strains.

The big issue that knocked him around this year though was the death of a close friend, which not many people outside the club knew about, which apparently impacted him greatly, despite this he was supposed to perform at a level that proved why we took him at 12 in the draft.

As I said earlier I watched him quite a few times in the VFL and started to see things late in the year when he had some continuity to his footy that showed exactly why we picked him. Moving through traffic in a manner similar to Pendlebury, i.e. making guys miss when he should be tackled and then feeding the ball out to a better option either by hand or foot.

Then I read about how he is rated inside the club in the Yellow and Black book and how desperate they are to get him into the side, but haven't been able to do it because of the setbacks, which is part of the reason why I really want to see him have a clear run at preseason and take the next step in his development.

I believe that if he does get that clear run at it he'll prove those writing him off wrong, much the same way that those who wrote Prestia off early in the year were proven wrong once Prestia got himself up to full fitness and started understanding our structures.

 

[Grechy]

If 2017 showed anything it was that the best 22 will play ....... regardless of height, position, etc., hence I have taller and smaller players, some forwards, some defenders and some midfielders ahead of CEllis, who I don't rate. He's poor under pressure, fragile and injury prone and simply we can do a lot better than him. Simple! But go ahead and keep changing the goal posts to suit your argument, if you actually have an argument, Your posts just wreak of 'having to disagree with me for the sake of it'. So full credit to you.
And yes, there are blokes on my list I have rubbished, namely Griffiths, but he's a better bet than your poster boy CEllis.

Griffiths is absolute trash. I watched a lot of VFL live this year and he chooses when he wants to contest. Unreliable kick too.

 

[HumanMeatball]

Griffiths is absolute trash. I watched a lot of VFL live this year and he chooses when he wants to contest. Unreliable kick too.

He played like 5 vfl games so you wouldn’t have seen him that much. Griffiths isn’t soft concussions just ****ed with his confidence towards the end of the year.

 

[abcxyz]

As I said earlier I watched him quite a few times in the VFL and started to see things late in the year when he had some continuity to his footy that showed exactly why we picked him. Moving through traffic in a manner similar to Pendlebury, i.e. making guys miss when he should be tackled and then feeding the ball out to a better option either by hand or foot.

I didn't watch a lot of VFL early in the year, but managed to catch some games and the finals later in the year on TV.

You can see in the kid that he moves well, and that his kicking on his left is his weapon, but the thing that stuck with me was his intensity at the contest and willingness to tackle hard. It was mentioned a number of times in one or two of the games that he was often in the high end of the tackle counts for players. Now I don't have any stats to back that up, but it was noticeable during the games that he was willing to put his body in. Something I had noticed as a weakness in his previous AFL games.

We all know that AFL and VFL are very different levels, but if he brings that same mindset to any AFL opportunities he gets, he should be hard to displace.

 

[_RT_]

I didn't watch a lot of VFL early in the year, but managed to catch some games and the finals later in the year on TV.

You can see in the kid that he moves well, and that his kicking on his left is his weapon, but the thing that stuck with me was his intensity at the contest and willingness to tackle hard. It was mentioned a number of times in one or two of the games that he was often in the high end of the tackle counts for players. Now I don't have any stats to back that up, but it was noticeable during the games that he was willing to put his body in. Something I had noticed as a weakness in his previous AFL games.

We all know that AFL and VFL are very different levels, but if he brings that same mindset to any AFL opportunities he gets, he should be hard to displace.

Like I said he has got areas to work on no doubt and intensity at the contest/opponent was one and that improved as the year progressed.

I remember watching him at Williamstown where he didn't get a heap of the footy but was credited with 9 tackles and spent the day running around following one of Williamstowns best midfielders. At the time that drew criticism from plenty about why we're using a first round draftee as a tagger at VFL level. At the time I argued that it was a great way to teach the kid about where to run in senior footy and also how to be accountable as a midfielder.

Later in the year he improved to the point where he was an emergency for the Grand Final ahead of those that others rate as being much better than him. Now that isn't going to happen for no reason. The kid earned his way into that spot with a strong second half of the year and although poor in the Geelong game he didn't let it get him down, he knuckled down and played a solid part in the VFL finals campaign. Now he needs to get through summer unscathed and force his way into the 22 through solid performances in the preseason games.

 

[UpTheTigs]

Conca will always be what we've come to expect, talented but injury riddled and thus not best 22.

Griffiths will forever be a fringe best 22 player who's inconsistency prevented him from reaching his potential.

Hampson doesn't belong anywhere near our best 22.

Cram games into Markov, Short, Menadue, Garthwaite, Higgins, Naish, Moore, Balta, CCJ as quickly as possible - because we've proven youth brings success via Rioli, Graham, Butler, Castagna, Bolton etc. Hell, even Nankervis was 22 for most of last year.

I'd love to see Corey Ellis fulfil his potential but he just caves at AFL level, despite dominating in the VFL. He'd be the ideal Shaun Grigg retirement replacement if he could just get it together.

 

[Goldust]

He came to us with a foot injury in his first preseason, think he had a shoulder injury in his second summer and then last summer he had a leg injury again that caused him to miss a chunk of the preseason. During the year he has had a couple of soft tissue injuries that cause him issues. Nothing overly serious, just the normal sprains and strains.

The big issue that knocked him around this year though was the death of a close friend, which not many people outside the club knew about, which apparently impacted him greatly, despite this he was supposed to perform at a level that proved why we took him at 12 in the draft.

As I said earlier I watched him quite a few times in the VFL and started to see things late in the year when he had some continuity to his footy that showed exactly why we picked him. Moving through traffic in a manner similar to Pendlebury, i.e. making guys miss when he should be tackled and then feeding the ball out to a better option either by hand or foot.

Then I read about how he is rated inside the club in the Yellow and Black book and how desperate they are to get him into the side, but haven't been able to do it because of the setbacks, which is part of the reason why I really want to see him have a clear run at preseason and take the next step in his development.

I believe that if he does get that clear run at it he'll prove those writing him off wrong, much the same way that those who wrote Prestia off early in the year were proven wrong once Prestia got himself up to full fitness and started understanding our structures.

Yet Graham can miss a lot of pre-season, most of the regular season, yet step into the Twos and then Ones at the business end of the season ad be a big contributor in a premiership win. If I am correct you were arguing with me why he shouldn't be promoted to the senior team late in the year.
His performance off a modest pre-season base just further illustrates how much work CEllis has ahead of him. For the record, as a former Essendon district boy and someone who had a relative playing for the Western Jets in the TAC Cup, I am well awaer of his pre-Richmond career and have rated Mendue higher from a long way back and have always had doubts over CEllis' ability to make it at the top. Thus far he's proven me right. But inore his deficiencies and continue your pathetic attempts to try and discredit me at every turn.

 

[Goldust]

Griffiths is absolute trash. I watched a lot of VFL live this year and he chooses when he wants to contest. Unreliable kick too.

Griffiths is like that ultra-expensive and fashionable Christmas gift you wanted as a kid, but deep down conceded you would never get. But you would convince yourself that gift was headed your way. That was until December 25 hit and you rush downstairs to discover you got a packet of pencils, a t-shirt, two pairs of shorts and a Christmas stocking with cheap chocolates. But you still crave that expensive, fashionable gift.
The hype on this bloke has been nothing shot of incredible since the moment he was drafted ..... I urge some on here to go back and read the earliest threads on Griff. Posters were building him up to be the next Carey or Stewart Loewe and he's never delivered. In fact he's more than a few cogs below what a disappointing Ty Vickery dished up, but still we have people proclaiming him as some missing link or cure for all ills. He's a mediocre talent, who unsurprisingly, we flourished in his absence. Move on!

 

[Goldust]

It's interesting how apparently I can't take criticism of players but go back and look at the staunch support given by yourself and others of Miles when he was constantly being overlooked. Every time his deficiencies were mentioned they were totally ignored and all that was sprouted was how he continued to get disposals. Hypocrisy at its finest right there.

Yes, how could one forget your blatant and misguided attempts to downplay and denigrate Anthony Miles. Yes, we well remember you being at several VFL games and reporting back here that Miles' 32 or 35 possession games were jus average, but CEllis' 14 possessions were all class. Your disdain for Miles is legendary in these parts.
His efforts were so mediocre that he won the VFL team's best and fairest and was fifth in the Liston voting. If you don't have it in for Miles or have it in for certain posters, than you are just a plain ordinary judge of footballer - which is likely. Yes Miles is a mediocre talent who happens to win more ball than CEllis and lay more tackles
I'd back TigerImposter in on our VFL team any day of the week. He was o the mark re Townsend a good 12 m0nths before the rest of us and he's there most every week.