List Mgmt. Best 22 - 2018

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I’m astonished how the CEllis lack of preseason due to injury has now shifted to a death of a friend??? This is a sad thing , but has this also happened in his other preseasons??? If you’ve been playing vfl and you’re picked to play AFL then you’re fit to play and as I stated x pages back it then comes back to ability and performance.
Jack Graham come on down.
 
Yes, how could one forget your blatant and misguided attempts to downplay and denigrate Anthony Miles. Yes, we well remember you being at several VFL games and reporting back here that Miles' 32 or 35 possession games were jus average, but CEllis' 14 possessions were all class. Your disdain for Miles is legendary in these parts.
His efforts were so mediocre that he won the VFL team's best and fairest and was fifth in the Liston voting. If you don't have it in for Miles or have it in for certain posters, than you are just a plain ordinary judge of footballer - which is likely. Yes Miles is a mediocre talent who happens to win more ball than CEllis and lay more tackles ;)
I'd back TigerImposter in on our VFL team any day of the week. He was o the mark re Townsend a good 12 m0nths before the rest of us and he's there most every week.
You can identify talent if you take the blinkers off . I went to watch Graham play his first two games and it was obvious that we had a ripper . Now this is a kid who had no preseason and hadn’t played since late 2016 , yet he was three years behind CEllis in terms of AFL development . People just have to accept that 43 doesn’t go into 22 unless you have a pile of injuries. I’ve been watching highlights of Higgins and I can tell you he’s already passed cellis as the little bugger has some strength , toe and ferocity. Good football clubs invest time into these blokes as they could be potential 10 plus year players and they also know they need to move on list cloggers. We’ve invested 3 years into CEllis and he’s sliding further down the pecking order so it’s his call as like Lennon found out the club will cut its losses in the hope to find the next Graham.
You also made a good point when raising Menadue. Now we can see he’s a work in progress as he has speed and a frame to strengthen and add muscle to , whereas CEllis to me just looks like a fragile David Bourke type . Questions need to be asked about CEllis body if he continues to miss preseasons .
Menadue is actually developing better than CEllis and i agree with you he has a better chance of making it although he’s still a long way back from the pack. If I was going to put games in any of these two Menadue would be picked first bc he has more upside due to his height speed poise and better physique that can be built up.
 
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Yet Graham can miss a lot of pre-season, most of the regular season, yet step into the Twos and then Ones at the business end of the season ad be a big contributor in a premiership win. If I am correct you were arguing with me why he shouldn't be promoted to the senior team late in the year.
His performance off a modest pre-season base just further illustrates how much work CEllis has ahead of him. For the record, as a former Essendon district boy and someone who had a relative playing for the Western Jets in the TAC Cup, I am well awaer of his pre-Richmond career and have rated Mendue higher from a long way back and have always had doubts over CEllis' ability to make it at the top. Thus far he's proven me right. But inore his deficiencies and continue your pathetic attempts to try and discredit me at every turn.
Yes I disagreed with bringing Graham in given he was coming off such a restricted year I thought it was better to take the conservative approach with him and ensure that he was right to go for 2018. I've never ignored Ellis' deficiencies, what I have constantly said that is that despite these the kid has been showing signs of the talent he has so much so that he was named emergency for our premiership side, not bad for a kid who is behind a dozen or so VFL players in your opinion. When it comes to the crunch I'll take the clubs opinion on the kid thanks.

Yes, how could one forget your blatant and misguided attempts to downplay and denigrate Anthony Miles. Yes, we well remember you being at several VFL games and reporting back here that Miles' 32 or 35 possession games were jus average, but CEllis' 14 possessions were all class. Your disdain for Miles is legendary in these parts.
His efforts were so mediocre that he won the VFL team's best and fairest and was fifth in the Liston voting. If you don't have it in for Miles or have it in for certain posters, than you are just a plain ordinary judge of footballer - which is likely. Yes Miles is a mediocre talent who happens to win more ball than CEllis and lay more tackles ;)
I'd back TigerImposter in on our VFL team any day of the week. He was o the mark re Townsend a good 12 m0nths before the rest of us and he's there most every week.
So talking about Miles deficiencies which were keeping him out of the senior side is downplaying and denigrating him. Give you a tip it wasn't just me who thought he was average, the selection committee also thought he was average, hence him only playing 5 games this year despite racking it up in the VFL. When the end of the season rolled around and he was out of contract and free to move to any club if he wanted the 17 other clubs didn't think he was worth pursuing hence no real offer was forth coming and his only option to keep his career going was to sign a 1 year deal with us. I don't have disdain for Miles, I have an opinion that is similar to the 18 AFL clubs, he is a very good VFL player but limited at AFL level once he is part of a side with a very talented list. Take a look at his history, dominated in the NEAFL when at the Giants but struggled to break in to their side, moved to us when we were a mid table side and was able to be a good player, when more talent was added to the list he was quickly overtaken, in part by a player in Prestia that you spent many an hour downplaying and denigrating. But hey I'm the poor judge of footballers.

FWIW, Miles averaged less tackled per game in the VFL that Ellis

I’m astonished how the CEllis lack of preseason due to injury has now shifted to a death of a friend??? This is a sad thing , but has this also happened in his other preseasons??? If you’ve been playing vfl and you’re picked to play AFL then you’re fit to play and as I stated x pages back it then comes back to ability and performance.
Jack Graham come on down.
It was mentioned that the death of a friend impacted his performances during the year, just because your fit to play it doesn't mean that your mind is totally in the right frame of mind to perform at the highest level.

You can identify talent if you take the blinkers off . I went to watch Graham play his first two games and it was obvious that we had a ripper . Now this is a kid who had no preseason and hadn’t played since late 2016 , yet he was three years behind CEllis in terms of AFL development . People just have to accept that 43 doesn’t go into 22 unless you have a pile of injuries. I’ve been watching highlights of Higgins and I can tell you he’s already passed cellis as the little bugger has some strength , toe and ferocity. Good football clubs invest time into these blokes as they could be potential 10 plus year players and they also know they need to move on list cloggers. We’ve invested 3 years into CEllis and he’s sliding further down the pecking order so it’s his call as like Lennon found out the club will cut its losses in the hope to find the next Graham.
You also made a good point when raising Menadue. Now we can see he’s a work in progress as he has speed and a frame to strengthen and add muscle to , whereas CEllis to me just looks like a fragile David Bourke type . Questions need to be asked about CEllis body if he continues to miss preseasons .
Menadue is actually developing better than CEllis and i agree with you he has a better chance of making it although he’s still a long way back from the pack. If I was going to put games in any of these two Menadue would be picked first bc he has more upside due to his height speed poise and better physique that can be built up.
I'd picked Graham as one we should get before he had even been drafted. As mentioned above I wanted the club to take the cautious approach with him because he had come from a long way back. Glad that the club didn't and happy to be wrong about it.

As for 43 not going into 22 unless we have a heap of injuries, lets not ignore that in Grand Final week we had only 1 injured player in Drummond and Ellis was named in the 25 for the Grand Final team, so much for being way down the pecking order as you and Goldy are suggesting. Oh but that's right you 2 are far better judges of footballers than the coaches at our club. Hence your undying devotion to getting Miles into the side despite his deficiencies, talk about having the blinkers on, you guys are as guilty as anyone when it comes to being unable to accept criticism of a player you're fanboys of.

As for questions being asked of Ellis if he keeps on breaking down, no doubt that will happen should be struggle in his 4th season with the club, but I'm confident that should he get a clear run at it in 2018 there will be quite a few having a big old helping of humble pie, just like they did when Prestia proved them wrong when it came to the crunch.
 

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Griffith is a player who does not impose himself on the football field.

Why people select him in the best 22 beggars belief!

Agreed. The following by some well considered players won’t make it in 2018: Griffith (for the 7th year running he has no idea a bit like TV), Miles (good VFL player only now and won’t help in the long run as he plays pre-2017 style), Cellis (not enough grunt or speed - no X-factor - had one special mark and Goal last year but that is it).

The players who make mistakes will need to improve. It is interesting watching the finals. If Castagna could take his opportunities cleanly he would have played a dominant role. But will he? McIntosh also needs to take a small step up in order to guarantee his spot.

These new boys look good especially Higgins.


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Yes I disagreed with bringing Graham in given he was coming off such a restricted year I thought it was better to take the conservative approach with him and ensure that he was right to go for 2018. I've never ignored Ellis' deficiencies, what I have constantly said that is that despite these the kid has been showing signs of the talent he has so much so that he was named emergency for our premiership side, not bad for a kid who is behind a dozen or so VFL players in your opinion. When it comes to the crunch I'll take the clubs opinion on the kid thanks.


So talking about Miles deficiencies which were keeping him out of the senior side is downplaying and denigrating him. Give you a tip it wasn't just me who thought he was average, the selection committee also thought he was average, hence him only playing 5 games this year despite racking it up in the VFL. When the end of the season rolled around and he was out of contract and free to move to any club if he wanted the 17 other clubs didn't think he was worth pursuing hence no real offer was forth coming and his only option to keep his career going was to sign a 1 year deal with us. I don't have disdain for Miles, I have an opinion that is similar to the 18 AFL clubs, he is a very good VFL player but limited at AFL level once he is part of a side with a very talented list. Take a look at his history, dominated in the NEAFL when at the Giants but struggled to break in to their side, moved to us when we were a mid table side and was able to be a good player, when more talent was added to the list he was quickly overtaken, in part by a player in Prestia that you spent many an hour downplaying and denigrating. But hey I'm the poor judge of footballers.

FWIW, Miles averaged less tackled per game in the VFL that Ellis


It was mentioned that the death of a friend impacted his performances during the year, just because your fit to play it doesn't mean that your mind is totally in the right frame of mind to perform at the highest level.


I'd picked Graham as one we should get before he had even been drafted. As mentioned above I wanted the club to take the cautious approach with him because he had come from a long way back. Glad that the club didn't and happy to be wrong about it.

As for 43 not going into 22 unless we have a heap of injuries, lets not ignore that in Grand Final week we had only 1 injured player in Drummond and Ellis was named in the 25 for the Grand Final team, so much for being way down the pecking order as you and Goldy are suggesting. Oh but that's right you 2 are far better judges of footballers than the coaches at our club. Hence your undying devotion to getting Miles into the side despite his deficiencies, talk about having the blinkers on, you guys are as guilty as anyone when it comes to being unable to accept criticism of a player you're fanboys of.

As for questions being asked of Ellis if he keeps on breaking down, no doubt that will happen should be struggle in his 4th season with the club, but I'm confident that should he get a clear run at it in 2018 there will be quite a few having a big old helping of humble pie, just like they did when Prestia proved them wrong when it came to the crunch.
The reality is he’s got his work cut out and for him playing in the GF he had Buckley chance as there were a handful of emergencies named.
There is no way Cellis could have stood up to the pressure and hardness of a GF as he struggled in the vfl GF against a standalone side .Another batch of kids have come in and the previous batch of two seasons after him have pretty well passed him. Nobody is writing him off , but if you keep harping on about his lack of preseasons then your case is flawed and people with concerns on cellis are closer to the truth. About Miles well he out performed cEllis consistently and his vfl achievements for the year vindicate this so stop comparing chalk to cheese.
 
The reality is he’s got his work cut out and for him playing in the GF he had Buckley chance as there were a handful of emergencies named.
There is no way Cellis could have stood up to the pressure and hardness of a GF as he struggled in the vfl GF against a standalone side .Another batch of kids have come in and the previous batch of two seasons after him have pretty well passed him. Nobody is writing him off , but if you keep harping on about his lack of preseasons then your case is flawed and people with concerns on cellis are closer to the truth. About Miles well he out performed cEllis consistently and his vfl achievements for the year vindicate this so stop comparing chalk to cheese.
There were 3 emergencies named for the Grand Final and one was a ruckman, so basically he was a 50-50 chance of playing if someone had of had to withdraw, this is despite guys like you continually saying that he is way behind a number of others. As I've said I'll take the opinion of those that deal with the players on a daily basis over guys like us who watch them once a week and have no real idea what happens behind the scenes.

As for Miles yes he had a great VFL year, despite this he was not part of discussions for the finals, when the opportunity came for other clubs to trade for him not one was interested enough to actually make a real offer. That isn't opinion, that is reality, but it won't stop the fanboys from pushing for Miles to be part of the side again next year when he has another solid VFL season.
 
The reality is he’s got his work cut out and for him playing in the GF he had Buckley chance as there were a handful of emergencies named.
There is no way Cellis could have stood up to the pressure and hardness of a GF as he struggled in the vfl GF against a standalone side .Another batch of kids have come in and the previous batch of two seasons after him have pretty well passed him. Nobody is writing him off , but if you keep harping on about his lack of preseasons then your case is flawed and people with concerns on cellis are closer to the truth. About Miles well he out performed cEllis consistently and his vfl achievements for the year vindicate this so stop comparing chalk to cheese.

Only three emergencies named for the GF. CEllis was one of them. The club clearly has a high opinion of the kid. I can see why some supporters struggle to see what they see though.


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There were 3 emergencies named for the Grand Final and one was a ruckman, so basically he was a 50-50 chance of playing if someone had of had to withdraw, this is despite guys like you continually saying that he is way behind a number of others. As I've said I'll take the opinion of those that deal with the players on a daily basis over guys like us who watch them once a week and have no real idea what happens behind the scenes.

As for Miles yes he had a great VFL year, despite this he was not part of discussions for the finals, when the opportunity came for other clubs to trade for him not one was interested enough to actually make a real offer. That isn't opinion, that is reality, but it won't stop the fanboys from pushing for Miles to be part of the side again next year when he has another solid VFL season.
He was never going to play in the afl team after the Geelong game. He was sent back to the twos and was average at best as he displayed his usual inconsistencies and his lack of grunt. He had his pants pulled down in the VFL GF and I still stand by that he’s the 30th man on our list based on the natural improvements in players drafted after him in the last four drafts. Go and do some homework.
 
He was never going to play in the afl team after the Geelong game. He was sent back to the twos and was average at best as he displayed his usual inconsistencies and his lack of grunt. He had his pants pulled down in the VFL GF and I still stand by that he’s the 30th man on our list based on the natural improvements in players drafted after him in the last four drafts. Go and do some homework.

But how can you say that when he is an emergency for the Grand Final? Doesn’t really make sense.
Ellis had a great VFL final series up until the Grand Final where most had an off day.

Ellis is fringe best 22 at present and trending upward.


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Only three emergencies named for the GF. CEllis was one of them. The club clearly has a high opinion of the kid. I can see why some supporters struggle to see what they see though.


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Yes and people like you will continue to conjure up hype on players when the reality is that they’re a long way off the pack. I refuse to argue with you as I don’t want to waste valuable hours like i did arguing with you over Lennon and Yarran .
 
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But how can you say that when he is an emergency for the Grand Final? Doesn’t really make sense.
Ellis had a great VFL final series up until the Grand Final where most had an off day.

Ellis is fringe best 22 at present and trending upward.


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Obvious bc Markov Stengle Bolton Higgins Moore Short Menadue and even Conca and Miles are ahead of him. All the younger players will go passed him after another preseason and he will slip further behind.
They have more natural improvement in them than him with more upside. He’s got it all to do as he’s been now three full years on the list . Also the million dollar question is who will he replace and can he seriously maintain the pressure and intensity our game plan demands? I say hmmmmm.
 

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Yes and people like you will continue to conjure up hype on players when the reality is that they’re a long way off the pack. I refuse to argue with you as I don’t want to waste valuable hours like i did arguing with you over Lennon and Yarran .

I could name players you were wrong about to but I’d need to start another thread.


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I could name players you were wrong about to but I’d need to start another thread.


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...., but you will continue to troll posters to no end just as you did on the Lennon thread and the mega Yarran one . The laugh was one bloke played zero games for us and the other a pittance. I would have thought you would have learnt a lesson by now in over rating players.
 
Hi guys after a weeks Holiday for calling a flog out for being a knob - I'M Back

In the November 2014 draft i didnt want Corey Ellis and had Liam Duggan & Lachie Weller as my preferred players as well as Jayden Laverde (that turned out well) currently my 1st choice Weller is gone and Duggan id fring best 22 similar to Ellis and Laverde well who knows but might pull the digit out

After watching Corey Ellis in the VFL last few games and the Vfl finals series i could see something there, Never been into this he is a supreme kick thing as all players when being in the system for 5-8 years should have good kicking skills imo - But i could see some of the moves and choices he made were much much better and he was starting to stand out as a level above type at that Level

Whilst others have mentioned his injuries and pre season's missed i still think he has not developed as he should and thats not just his playing but whats also worrying is his inability to develop physically and in 3 years he should be a solid mid but still looks like a kid we just drafted this year.

I always rated Connor Menadue and was rapt to have got him and that in a way made the 2014 draft pool acceptable for me and I still love what Connor brings to the game,He runs had tackles and tries to create at all hi speed and in some of his VFL games late in 2017 i said wow it wont be long before he is doing this in the AFL and i have confidence that he will be best 22 by rnd 1 2019 and is developing beautifully

I will give Corey Ellis 2018 to try and win me over and prove he has a place in our best 22 but if he is in a similar position to where he is currently in 12 months time - Then he is just another Conca and a trade must be considered if available




How nice is it now to look at our list and not Have a Ben Lennon-
We have cleansed the club rooms now and only have 4-5 left to piss off
 
...., but you will continue to troll posters to no end just as you did on the Lennon thread and the mega Yarran one . The laugh was one bloke played zero games for us and the other a pittance. I would have thought you would have learnt a lesson by now in over rating players.

I’m not sure if you know the meaning of the word “troll”. As I am not one.

I’m always going to believe in players, especially highly talented players, until the bitter end. I couldn’t give two shits if I’m wrong about every player.
When I voiced my opinion on Lambert, that being negative, it bit me on the backside and he proved me wrong. You also had similar thoughts on Lambert.

We won the flag. Corey Ellis was an emergency for that game. The math isn’t hard.


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I’m not sure if you know the meaning of the word “troll”. As I am not one.

I’m always going to believe in players, especially highly talented players, until the bitter end. I couldn’t give two shits if I’m wrong about every player.
When I voiced my opinion on Lambert, that being negative, it bit me on the backside and he proved me wrong. You also had similar thoughts on Lambert.

We won the flag. Corey Ellis was an emergency for that game. The math isn’t hard.


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Emergency means nothing as I’ve already stated as there are now at least five other younger players ahead of him. Now do the calculations on how he’s going to get a game before Bolton Markov Moore Short Higgins etc etc. conca fit would have been named emergency before him. Also this bull shit I continue to read that the club rates him is small talk bc if a player is on the list of course the he club rates him. They even rate our rookies in Smith and Stengel.
 
Hi guys after a weeks Holiday for calling a flog out for being a knob - I'M Back

In the November 2014 draft i didnt want Corey Ellis and had Liam Duggan & Lachie Weller as my preferred players as well as Jayden Laverde (that turned out well) currently my 1st choice Weller is gone and Duggan id fring best 22 similar to Ellis and Laverde well who knows but might pull the digit out

After watching Corey Ellis in the VFL last few games and the Vfl finals series i could see something there, Never been into this he is a supreme kick thing as all players when being in the system for 5-8 years should have good kicking skills imo - But i could see some of the moves and choices he made were much much better and he was starting to stand out as a level above type at that Level

Whilst others have mentioned his injuries and pre season's missed i still think he has not developed as he should and thats not just his playing but whats also worrying is his inability to develop physically and in 3 years he should be a solid mid but still looks like a kid we just drafted this year.

I always rated Connor Menadue and was rapt to have got him and that in a way made the 2014 draft pool acceptable for me and I still love what Connor brings to the game,He runs had tackles and tries to create at all hi speed and in some of his VFL games late in 2017 i said wow it wont be long before he is doing this in the AFL and i have confidence that he will be best 22 by rnd 1 2019 and is developing beautifully

I will give Corey Ellis 2018 to try and win me over and prove he has a place in our best 22 but if he is in a similar position to where he is currently in 12 months time - Then he is just another Conca and a trade must be considered if available




How nice is it now to look at our list and not Have a Ben Lennon-
We have cleansed the club rooms now and only have 4-5 left to piss off
Agreed on Menadue, think he has all the tools to be a very good AFL player. He was always going to take a while to develop but reckon he's been handled very well, given a sniff of senior footy, while allowed to play with attacking flair in the 2's.
As you say big 2018 for Ellis, reckon he showed some good signs towards the end of 2017 in the 2's, the club really needs to play him as an inside mid, Markov, Menadue, Short etc.. have got him covered for speed when it comes to those wing/hb roles
 
Emergency means nothing as I’ve already stated as there are now at least five other younger players ahead of him. Now do the calculations on how he’s going to get a game before Bolton Markov Moore Short Higgins etc etc. conca fit would have been named emergency before him. Also this bull shit I continue to read that the club rates him is small talk bc if a player is on the list of course the he club rates him. They even rate our rookies in Smith and Stengel.

I read the whole post but should have stopped after you said being an emergency for a Grand Final means nothing. That is one of the most absurd things I’ve ever read.

Bolton and Higgins will be fighting for a small forward spot. So they aren’t relevant to this discussion. Moore would be aiming for Townsend’s spot.
Markov, Short, Conca and Ellis are all looking at Broads spot but Ellis can also play in the midfield/wing so I think he is first in line.
Also, Conca was fit... He played through the finals in the VFL. Hasn’t stopped Dimma before, bringing someone back underdone.


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He was never going to play in the afl team after the Geelong game. He was sent back to the twos and was average at best as he displayed his usual inconsistencies and his lack of grunt. He had his pants pulled down in the VFL GF and I still stand by that he’s the 30th man on our list based on the natural improvements in players drafted after him in the last four drafts. Go and do some homework.
Are you suggesting the match committee picked him as an emergency for the biggest game the club had played in 35 years as a joke?

Just wondering how a player you've described as being average at best and displaying inconsistencies and a lack of grunt can average 22.1 disposals 6.3 handball receives 4.3 marks & 6 tackles per game for the final 6 games of the season?

If anything I'd suggest that it was his consistent performance over that period that saw him go from being dropped to being an emergency for the Grand Final side when all but one player was unavailable to be picked.

As I said I'll back the clubs opinion of the kid over someone who has constantly shown an inability to offer unbiased opinions on players
 
I read the whole post but should have stopped after you said being an emergency for a Grand Final means nothing. That is one of the most absurd things I’ve ever read.

Bolton and Higgins will be fighting for a small forward spot. So they aren’t relevant to this discussion. Moore would be aiming for Townsend’s spot.
Markov, Short, Conca and Ellis are all looking at Broads spot but Ellis can also play in the midfield/wing so I think he is first in line.
Also, Conca was fit... He played through the finals in the VFL. Hasn’t stopped Dimma before, bringing someone back underdone.


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Being named emergency for the GF in a team that was basically unchanged since he was dropped due to the way the Cats pussy whipped him in round 20 still meant he was a long way off and was probably 25th in line. He was never going to play and you’re just talking up rubbish as usual by imagining he was next in line.
All those players I mentioned can be rotated with other players in the current team. Higgins I believe will be more a mid /HF player . You’re underrating flexibility in our players or were you absent from what eventuated this year? Rioli played ruck in the GF. Now what traits Cellis can bring before all the names I mentioned earlier is my worry bc he still is physically meek.
He is IMO 30 th on our list bc he’s getting quickly overtaken by younger players. So far Graham Rioli Broad Townsend Castagna Butler Lambert and Kmac have all pushed passed him which is a glaring embarrassment as all of those guys were later picks than him , with Rioli the only first rounder and KMac longer on the list. Now see how obvious it is? The scary thing is that there are at least seven younger kids potentially better than him on our list which puts him at risk.
 

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