Prediction Best 22 for Round One, 2017

[Komrade_Tiger]

Here is an interesting chart.

It shows the averages per JLT game if each player played the same minutes.

View attachment 346978

taken with a healthy amount of salt, I would read that more as Soldo is every chance to make it. I don't see him achieving those kinds of stats (i don't think he's a ruckman in that mould) but focusing on H/O and clunking big marks will see him at the very least play as a 2nd ruck resting forward IMO

 

[exceptional design]

taken with a healthy amount of salt, I would read that more as Soldo is every chance to make it. I don't see him achieving those kinds of stats (i don't think he's a ruckman in that mould) but focusing on H/O and clunking big marks will see him at the very least play as a 2nd ruck resting forward IMO

He certainly did well for his limited time in the 1's so hopefully that should give him a fair amount of confidence.

 

[exceptional design]

Interesting but ultimately a bit useless. Unless we think Soldo will actually get 25 possies and kick 3 goals 5 a match In which case, get him in there! Ultimately some players are probably more capable of playing more or less minutes than others. Does reinforce the popular sentiment that Griff and Lennon were disappointing though. It doesn't show effort, pressure acts etc which would help Lennon a bit but not much. Also doesn't ably demonstrate just how crap Hunt was.

We might have to go with Nankervis & Maric or Nankervis & Chol for ruck.
I still think Hunt is hanging on to his spot, waiting for others to overtake him.

 

[partycorolla]

We might have to go with Nankervis & Maric or Nankervis & Chol for ruck.
I still think Hunt is hanging on to his spot, waiting for others to overtake him.

I really hope you are wrong about Hunt I just see so many better options than him. I'm worried that we might pick Nank, Maric/Chol & Griff in some games... Which could work (depending on match ups) but might rob us of some crumbing potency and run...

 

[docko911]

Pretty much every AFL fan doesn't rate Hunt, Why does Hardwick?

 

[Mr Tiger]

Pretty much every AFL fan doesn't rate Hunt, Why does Hardwick?

He's great at the 1%ers it the 99% that's the worry

 

[TigerImposter]

FB Grimes Rance Conca
HB Houli Astbury Mcintosh
C Grigg Cotchin BEllis
HF Edwards Martin Vlastuin
FF Lloyd Riewoldt Lambert
R Nankervis Caddy Prestia
INT Miles Griffiths Hunt Short

No Rioli? You're thinking short term success here ED. We know historically that this doesn't work. Playing the Houli's GriggS Lambert's Karmichael's and Conca's will give you some cheap thrills , but in the end it robs you long term. We've tried this experiment for 7 years now and we're still like the dog chasing its tail. I'm in the opinion we're doing a mini rebuild where every member of the list ( apart from the awesome foursome and genuine young talent) need to be looked at and either given a year extension or moved on once contracts are up .
This was done by Melbourne under Roos , by the saints and Dogs and they have potentially a better list of youth and balance.
If we aren't thinking along these lines and continue to play all of the dead wood rather than a blend of them with youth then we're in trouble.

 

[exceptional design]

No Rioli? You're thinking short term success here ED. We know historically that this doesn't work. Playing the Houli's GriggS Lambert's Karmichael's and Conca's will give you some cheap thrills , but in the end it robs you long term. We've tried this experiment for 7 years now and we're still like the dog chasing its tail. I'm in the opinion we're doing a mini rebuild where every member of the list ( apart from the awesome foursome and genuine young talent) need to be looked at and either given a year extension or moved on once contracts are up .
This was done by Melbourne under Roos , by the saints and Dogs and they have potentially a better list of youth and balance.
If we aren't thinking along these lines and continue to play all of the dead wood rather than a blend of them with youth then we're in trouble.

Correct No Rioili. I like the way Sydney do it, in that if you can't play right now, you don't play.
They move on the younger players, not the experienced players, until they are actually being outperformed. It seems to work ok for them.

I detest playing players purely on potential. If they are good enough they will beat the door down.
We have done the playing players on potential to death for the last 7 years, yet our best players over that time where still the core players from before that time.

I think the game style & coaching determines if players and the side are good or bad, not the other way around.
Play a good game style like 2013 and suddenly all of our players will appear better players and get better results. And the Hoili's Griggs, Lamberts, Conca's will appear very good players, just like 3 of them did in 2013.

 

[TigerImposter]

Correct No Rioili. I like the way Sydney do it, in that if you can't play right now, you don't play.
They move on the younger players, not the experienced players, until they are actually being outperformed. It seems to work ok for them.

I detest playing players purely on potential. If they are good enough they will beat the door down.
We have done the playing players on potential to death for the last 7 years, yet our best players over that time where still the core players from before that time.

I think the game style & coaching determines if players and the side are good or bad, not the other way around.
Play a good game style like 2013 and suddenly all of our players will appear better players and get better results. And the Hoili's Griggs, Lamberts, Conca's will appear very good players, just like 3 of them did in 2013.

Unfortunately our middle tier players aren't in the same boat as the Swans and realistically our so called younger players with potential are probably on equal par with the middle tier players.
They're probably not as physically ready , but they offer more with
Future development , quality and enthusiasm.
I think when we start to consistently make finals and win a few like the Swans then your argument is valid , but ATM we've achieved squat with your Chris Newman policy.

 

[exceptional design]

Unfortunately our middle tier players aren't in the same boat as the Swans and realistically our so called younger players with potential are probably on equal par with the middle tier players.
They're probably not as physically ready , but they offer more with
Future development , quality and enthusiasm.
I think when we start to consistently make finals and win a few like the Swans then your argument is valid , but ATM we've achieved squat with your Chris Newman policy.

We should have been winning finals for the last 3 years had we kept the faith in 2013 game style.
Well this year we will achieve finals or we will get a better game plan and coaching next year

 

[TigerImposter]

We should have been winning finals for the last 3 years had we kept the faith in 2013 game style.
Well this year we will achieve finals or we will get a better game plan and coaching next year

I still think we were short changed with the cattle by Flair and Dan
plus poor drafting. The game plan was adopted to cater for the list cloggers chosen. You're right though the change has been made , but how far is our list behind? I say three seasons as we have holes everywhere especially considering tall players take longer. Elton is a classic example and he still looks like a bust.

 

[mopsy]

Correct No Rioili. I like the way Sydney do it, in that if you can't play right now, you don't play.
They move on the younger players, not the experienced players, until they are actually being outperformed. It seems to work ok for them.

I detest playing players purely on potential. If they are good enough they will beat the door down.
We have done the playing players on potential to death for the last 7 years, yet our best players over that time where still the core players from before that time.

I think the game style & coaching determines if players and the side are good or bad, not the other way around.
Play a good game style like 2013 and suddenly all of our players will appear better players and get better results. And the Hoili's Griggs, Lamberts, Conca's will appear very good players, just like 3 of them did in 2013.

Imo this is wrong.We are not playing too many youngsters at all.
Only short rioli and menadue played more than half of the games last yr.
Short 2nd yr player got 16 played pretty well imo. No morris no Houli we were and continue to look for small defenders.
Rioli 1st yr player was given 18 games many gifted but lo and behold we were searching for sml fwds with only Lloyd performing to a decent standard.
Menadue 2nd yr played 14 games again many were gifted but the search was on for skilled quick outside midfield players he is one of very few who has the pace and polish for the role.
C Ellis 2nd yr was given 11 games in what was an injury interrupted yr.

Imo with the yr we had and the state of the list, that is the low standard of mid tier players we were stingy with games to kids.

Even at clubs like Sydney and Hawthorn kids who show enough are given games without tearing the door down.Yes at these clubs it is hardewr to get a game because their best 22s are so strong we are not in that boat.We have underperforming mature bodied mid tier types who are taking us nowhere and we have our share of kids who have some promise sometimes circumstance demands you play the younger blokes in search of something better.
It usually means they are not better options straight away unless your a Heeney or Mills but they have the potential to be.
Our trouble is we always over rate what we have and are hardly ever prepared to take a few small steps backwards to go fwds.

We are not Sydney or Hawthorn we are a team that should be in a decent rebuild phase and that means being more like the doggies of a few yrs ago where they bit the bullet and played kids with real potential when there was probably better immediate options.

How many players at richmond over the last 5 yrs have beat the door down seniors or juniors the honest answer is sweet stuff all.
We are setting a criteria for one group and letting the other group get away with never meeting it.

 

[mopsy]

Reward for "effort"? Can we reward good performances instead?

FMD we wont be able to field a team because many of the mature blokes are just as poor as the juniors.

 

[exceptional design]

Imo this is wrong.We are not playing too many youngsters at all.
Only short rioli and menadue played more than half of the games last yr.
Short 2nd yr player got 16 played pretty well imo. No morris no Houli we were and continue to look for small defenders.
Rioli 1st yr player was given 18 games many gifted but lo and behold we were searching for sml fwds with only Lloyd performing to a decent standard.
Menadue 2nd yr played 14 games again many were gifted but the search was on for skilled quick outside midfield players he is one of very few who has the pace and polish for the role.
C Ellis 2nd yr was given 11 games in what was an injury interrupted yr.

Imo with the yr we had and the state of the list, that is the low standard of mid tier players we were stingy with games to kids.

Even at clubs like Sydney and Hawthorn kids who show enough are given games without tearing the door down.Yes at these clubs it is hardewr to get a game because their best 22s are so strong we are not in that boat.We have underperforming mature bodied mid tier types who are taking us nowhere and we have our share of kids who have some promise sometimes circumstance demands you play the younger blokes in search of something better.
It usually means they are not better options straight away unless your a Heeney or Mills but they have the potential to be.
Our trouble is we always over rate what we have and are hardly ever prepared to take a few small steps backwards to go fwds.

We are not Sydney or Hawthorn we are a team that should be in a decent rebuild phase and that means being more like the doggies of a few yrs ago where they bit the bullet and played kids with real potential when there was probably better immediate options.

How many players at richmond over the last 5 yrs have beat the door down seniors or juniors the honest answer is sweet stuff all.
We are setting a criteria for one group and letting the other group get away with never meeting it.

Yep didn't say we were playing too many. But I don't like playing players unless performing.
Short did play well, but not in his natural position which earned 3 goals on debut, and should have had a continued a crack as a small forward.
Even though Short was serviceable down back, he now seems to be out of favour, so why the experiment in the 1st place. (a different saga about playing players out of position).

But someone else got the gig 18 times. It would have been a good opportunity to try others like Butler, Castagna when not injured.
Yet most of the injuries we had were in the backline.
This would have been a perfect opportunity for players like CEllis, Menadue, even Morris. I am sure they would have worked just as hard as training.
For all Morris' faults, he was quite serviceable before he was shifted out of the backline and was part of a cohesive backline.

Agree not many have beat the door down, and that goes to my point about turning over the juniors more (recruiting types in the first place is another long long saga).
And maybe the majority of them not wasting a year playing out position in the 2's might help too.

Even with some of senior players, we shift them around, and don't let them settle into a cohesive unit.
The times when we have kept a group together like the backline in previous years yielded good results, then we destroyed it at the start of last year.

Searching for something better probably comes back to the coach thinking "my game plan is fine, so it must be the players".
Until we start playing a game style that is likely to win (like 2013), playing players in their best spots, (most likely what they were recruited to play) nobody will know which players are any good, or which players to get.. Except for talls.
Houli, Morris, Conca, were fine for me in 2013. Hunt at least finds a lot of ball, and probably performs his role. Although sometimes I am not sure what it is. Hopefully we have no need for a seventh defender (game strategy, saga number what ever ).

Last point. The players all have two arms, two legs etc. Play a game style that suits those arms and legs, at training and on game day and maybe most of the players will flourish.
Instead of having preconceived notions about age, size of key position forwards, pressure forwards, 7 defenders, etc.

As an example, I am sure Dusty must be thrilled about not spending as much time in the midfield this year, after finishing third in the Brownlow, not racking up the disposals, and the experts tipping us to finish in the bottom 6.
Probably similar to Jack "not being a key forward" and not playing as close to goals, or Morris having a standout year in the forward line "because he used to do that role". Brandon Ellis must be licking his chops at the prospect of a HBF, after being nearly All Australian on the wing, then asked to improve his inside game when other wingers at other clubs are just expected to run all day.


Agree we are not Hawthorn or Sydney. Maybe if we had less saga's it might help us be a bit more.

 

[_DBF_]

Starting to think we will go in like this:

B: Grimes Astbury Conca
HB: B. Ellis Rance Houli
C: Grigg Miles Caddy
HF: Edwards Griffiths Lloyd
F: Rioli Riewoldt Martin
Foll: Nankervis Cotchin Prestia
Int: McIntosh Vlastuin Butler Lennon

Emerg: Maric Castagna Hunt

 

[Livonski]

Starting to think we will go in like this:

B: Grimes Astbury Conca
HB: B. Ellis Rance Houli
C: Grigg Miles Caddy
HF: Edwards Griffiths Lloyd
F: Rioli Riewoldt Martin
Foll: Nankervis Cotchin Prestia
Int: McIntosh Vlastuin Butler Lennon

Emerg: Maric Castagna Hunt

That's about it. Only change might be for Hunt to come in for Lennon if we flexibility to lock down someone at some point. Murphy, Gibbs?

 

[prodigy]

That's about it. Only change might be for Hunt to come in for Lennon if we flexibility to lock down someone at some point. Murphy, Gibbs?

Lol. I'd be looking at Cripps before either one of those spuds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mopsy]

What i dont get with this rabble of a club is we we did some hard yards with some of the kids last yr we put games into Menadue 14, Short 16, Rioli 18 , Markov 8 C Ellis 11 even castagna with 5 games and theres a chance only one will get a game to start the yr.
What is wrong with people we have started a process and mid stream suddenly revert back to short term fixes.
And the only reason why is people are so deluded and so unwilling to lose games early in the yr.

We saw what can happen if you play enough of the better players around these kids its a far better prospect than reverting back to the slow inconsistent hacks who have had games given to em on a platternone of them have had to earn a spot yet its okay for these blokes to be gifted games but the kids who need good players around them have to earn it.
The double standards are amasing.

 

[docko911]

So most don't expect Markov and C.Ellis to play round 1?

Strange considering by all accounts Markov had a good preseason + he was probably our best young player towards the end of last year.

As for C.Ellis he has been a preferred player when fit, and for good reason.

Team selection will be awesome!

 

[_DBF_]

So most don't expect Markov and C.Ellis to play round 1?

Strange considering by all accounts Markov had a good preseason + he was probably our best young player towards the end of last year.

As for C.Ellis he has been a preferred player when fit, and for good reason.

Team selection will be awesome!

Want to see Butler, Lennon, Castagna, Markov, C. Ellis, Menadue, Short all get a good go at it. But don't think we'll see the majority first up.

 

[ize_]

So most don't expect Markov and C.Ellis to play round 1?

Strange considering by all accounts Markov had a good preseason + he was probably our best young player towards the end of last year.

As for C.Ellis he has been a preferred player when fit, and for good reason.

Team selection will be awesome!

I can't see how Markov doesn't play. Not only is he a gun but he fills a need in the 22. I'd have him over K-Mac.

 

[getgaff]

Won't be the best available against Carlton on Thursday but here is my thoughts on the Tigers strongest 22 for 2017.

BACKS: Dylan Grimes ~ Alex Rance ~ Jayden Short
HALF BACKS: Nick Vlastuin ~ David Astbury ~ Bachar Houli/ Oleg Markov

CENTRE: Kamdyn McIntosh ~ Josh Caddy ~ Brandon Ellis
FOLLOWERS: Toby Nankervis ~ Trent Cotchin ~ Dion Prestia

HALF FORWARDS: Dustin Martin ~ Jack Riewoldt ~ Shane Edwards
FULL FORWARDS: Sam Lloyd ~ Ben Griffiths ~ Daniel Rioli/ Daniel Butler in Round 1

INTERCHANGE: Shaun Grogg ~ Anthony Miles ~ Oleg Markov ~ Corey Ellis


Without knowing for certain until Wednesday evening my assumption is that Dan Butler plays in Round 1 for Daniel Rioli who according to the injury update is on light duties after suffering a corked thigh in JLT 3.

 

[FFS_Attack!]

Won't be the best available against Carlton on Thursday but here is my thoughts on the Tigers strongest 22 for 2017.

BACKS: Dylan Grimes ~ Alex Rance ~ Jayden Short
HALF BACKS: Nick Vlastuin ~ David Astbury ~ Bachar Houli/ Oleg Markov

CENTRE: Kamdyn McIntosh ~ Josh Caddy ~ Brandon Ellis
FOLLOWERS: Toby Nankervis ~ Trent Cotchin ~ Dion Prestia

HALF FORWARDS: Dustin Martin ~ Jack Riewoldt ~ Shane Edwards
FULL FORWARDS: Sam Lloyd ~ Ben Griffiths ~ Daniel Rioli/ Daniel Butler in Round 1

INTERCHANGE: Shaun Grogg ~ Anthony Miles ~ Oleg Markov ~ Corey Ellis


Without knowing for certain until Wednesday evening my assumption is that Dan Butler plays in Round 1 for Daniel Rioli who according to the injury update is on light duties after suffering a corked thigh in JLT 3.

 

[FFS_Attack!]

I like the look of this lineup. However, If he has to play keep Bellis out of the backline and on the wing as you have shown.
He is a a serial turn-over specialist. Anyone can see that so why doesnt Dimma?
Also, I'd go with Chol instead of Griffiths IMHO.

Surely after all the off-season changes we have reached the line-in -the-sand point of no return. (Wishful thinking!??)
No more gifted games to anyone!!!
Come on Caracella, make it happen!!!!

 

[prodigy]

Lock it in Eddie.