Best Contested Midfielder

[Mr Meow]

Let me get this straight. I provide available figures for the last 4 years for hard ball gets.

You look past about 82 names and start fapping over what Geelong player Dangerfield's figures might have been during 2016-19. You expect us to join in with you on your fap over a fantasy extrapolation you have made about a Geelong player. When I don't you start making your usual straw man misapproriations etc about a person who is merely providing factual data to genuinely add to the subject matter. Take it to the Geelong board, I am sure there is someone there who will join in with you. They will moan about big bad Meteoric Rise with you all you like.

Nah I'm still laughing at your delusion that Dangerfield was Daicos 2016-2019 and then in 2021, once they recorded hard ball gets, he magically turned into a bull. He was just a loose ball merchant before then.

With coping mechanisms like that you could wish away any uncomfortable truth. No wonder you can be so breezy. The question is, why would the idea of Dangerfield winning a huge amount of hard ball gets (which anyone with a brain and eyes would already know) shock or upset you?

This would be like me being devastated to learn that Massimo is a good kick.

The topic is best contested midfielder and is not exclusive to 2021-2024.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Oliver before he got fat was the best contested ball winner the leagues seen. Averaged 17 CP a game over 2 seasons. Whether he was the 'best' player is another question as others did more with it.

Cripps the best ATM, Fyfe the best I've seen in his prime. Danger a close 2nd imo.

Clay Oliver was indeed up around 6 hard gets per game before he discovered Arnott's biscuits and no doubt certain other delights. I couldn't find anyone with higher readings than his 6 per game in 2022, although Jakey Florenca deserves a special mention for his 7 hard gets when he got his 15 minutes of fame in one match in 2022.

The liberated bull Liberatoro has the mantle though, he has been consistently very high in hard ball gets.

 

[M Malice]

Jared Polec

13

Jared Polec

Age

32

Ht

187cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.6

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

7.7

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.0

4star

D

20.5

5star

K

13.1

5star

HB

7.4

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.1

4star

CL

2.9

4star

D

13.4

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.4

4star

.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Nah I'm still laughing at your delusion that Dangerfield was Daicos 2016-2019 and then in 2021, once they recorded hard ball gets, he magically turned into a bull. He was just a loose ball merchant before then.

With coping mechanisms like that you could wish away any uncomfortable truth. No wonder you can be so breezy. The question is, why would the idea of Dangerfield winning a huge amount of hard ball gets (which anyone with a brain and eyes would already know) shock or upset you?

This would be like me being devastated to learn that Massimo is a good kick.

The topic is best contested midfielder and is not exclusive to 2021-2024.

Lol. So it is fine for you to make fantasy extrapolations but when somebody else satirises your Geelong centric fantasy post you take it seriously and start crying.

The truth is you don't know how many hard ball gets Dangerfield or anyone else got before 2021, and no amount of wishpraying Dangerfield into the dominant hard ball get player during another period will prove it to be true.

Jeez you don't want to ever be the poor bugger providing facts to deluded cats supporters around here. By the way, Liberatore got more hard gets than your fapgod as a 31 and 32yo and it wasn't even close. So maybe you can extrapolate that fact into something less fantastic than the nonsense you have been coming up with so far.

 

[Lingsface]

 

[Mr Meow]

Lol. So it is fine for you to make fantasy extrapolations but when somebody else satirises your Geelong centric fantasy post you take it seriously and start crying.

The truth is you don't know how many hard ball gets Dangerfield or anyone else got before 2021, and no amount of wishpraying Dangerfield into the dominant hard ball get player during another period will prove it to be true.

Jeez you don't want to ever be the poor bugger providing facts to deluded cats supporters around here. By the way, Liberatore got more hard gets than your fapgod as a 31 and 32yo and it wasn't even close. So maybe you can extrapolate that fact into something less fantastic than the nonsense you have been coming up with so far.

Do you have an explanation for why the highest hard ball per contested possession mids of 2021-2024 would have lower hard ball per contested possession ratios in the years previous? Or do you just struggle with any kind of rational predictive mathematics? Maybe you actually thought it was impossible to win hard balls until the stat was recorded. JPK, Fyfe, Dangerfield etc were simply "Daicos clones".

Either answer is fine. I'm just trying to figure out how you're trying to rationalise this.

 

[Tall poppy Syndrome]

At the start of his career, Sam Mitchell was known as ‘The Extractor’ for his hard ball gets. Always remained a strong part of his game but ultimately I think he’ll be remembered as a player more for other things, his handball skills on both sides in particular.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Do you have an explanation for why the highest hard ball per contested possession mids of 2021-2024 would have lower hard ball per contested possession ratios in the years previous? Or do you just struggle with any kind of rational predictive mathematics? Maybe you actually thought it was impossible to win hard balls until the stat was recorded. JPK, Fyfe, Dangerfield etc were simply "Daicos clones".

Either answer is fine. I'm just trying to figure out how you're trying to rationalise this.

Errr....because he has slowed down, like most players in their dotage. So he is coming under more physical pressure more often. Have a look at the highlight reel your own supporter just provided. There are about 3 hard ball gets in 4+ minute package.

You are blinded by your Geelong obsession, we all get it.

 

[MisterMarcus]

"Boy I hope this thread isn't going to turn into another obsessive Richmond whinge-fest about Geelong"

(sees Old Mate Meteor is the top poster)

"Oh......"

 

[Meteoric Rise]

"Boy I hope this thread isn't going to turn into another obsessive Richmond whinge-fest about Geelong"

(sees Old Mate Meteor is the top poster)

"Oh......"

I provide useful data on 83 players from across the AFL and get swamped by obsessed Cats posters whingeing for England that there isn't a Cats player at the top of the data. I can't go anywhere on these boards without this happening. You guys must have Meteoric Rise posts on red alert and as soon as I post you answer the clarion call to arms in a vain effort to stop me posting facts. Strange supporter group.

 

[KissKiss]

If I’m picking any contested player in their prime to play in a grand final tomorrow, I’m picking Voss or JPK.

If we are talking about all time contested player efforts in Grand Finals then you probably have to throw Simon Black into the mix. 39 disposals with 25 contested possessions

He maybe isnt quite at JPK level for his whole career (but isnt that far behind) but for finals performances that is right at up at the top

 

[Mr Meow]

I provide useful data on 83 players from across the AFL and get swamped by obsessed Cats posters whingeing for England that there isn't a Cats player at the top of the data. I can't go anywhere on these boards without this happening. You guys must have Meteoric Rise posts on red alert and as soon as I post you answer the clarion call to arms in a vain effort to stop me posting facts. Strange supporter group.

Your data is confined to it only being recorded 2021 onwards, yet the players brought up in this thread had their peak in earlier years. Of course they will continue to be talked about. For the players we are lucky enough to have proportional hard ball gets per CP data, it makes more sense to apply that than try and say a player used to be a loose ball merchant.

Your explanation for players having a higher proportion of hard ball gets in their last years doesn't make sense. So Dusty in his prime would have even less? You are going to win more when you are stronger and more agile, I.e when you are in peak performance.

If you want an example, Dangerfield won MORE hard ball gets per contested possession in 2021 than he has in 2024. Not less. It's farcical to suggest he would have a lower HB ratio per CP 2016-2019. Much more likely it was higher.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

We have a nice little stat called "hard ball gets" these days. Sadly, it only seems to be available for the last 4 seasons.

Per match hard ball gets over the last 4 seasons, only those who played in 2024 and averaged above 3.0 per match or others of interest listed...

5.0 Liberatoro - the bull
4.8 Oliver
4.4 Tom Green
3.8 Cripps, Dangerfield, Rowell
3.6 Wines, Dunkley, Laird, Petracca
3.5 T Miller, H Greenwood
3.4 Hopper, L Parker
3.2 Viney, T Mitchell
3.0 Yeo, Neale, Steele

2.9 T Kelly, C Guthrie
2.8 Walsh, Fyfe, J Macrae
2.7 Harley Reid, B Keays
2.6 Serong, Washcroft, Uniacke, Taranto, Treloar
2.5 Bontempelli, C Warner
2.4 T Adams
2.3 Parish
2.1 Newcombe, McLuggage, C Ward, Josh Kelly, Cerra
2.0 Andrew Brayshaw, Coniglio, Z Butters, D Martin
1.9 Z Merrett, Pepper
1.8 Heeney, Horne
1.7 Pendlebury
1.5 Blicavs, Gulden



1.4 N Daicos, C Rozee
1.3 Jack Bowes, M Holmes, D Shiel
1.2 T Stewart, T Bruhn, S Bolton
1.1 Docherty, Sidebottom
1.0 T Stengle, S DeKoning, Miers, Maynard
0.9 J Cameron, O Dempsey, T Hawkins, B Mihocek, D Moore
0.8 J Ginnivan, O Henry
0.7 Barely Avfritsch ( danster168 )
0.6 Jhye Clark




0.5 C Spargo( danster168 ) N Cumberland(in 2023 9 matches with zero hard ball gets.) L Ryan, Hipwood, Mitch McGovern, Redman

0.4 B(band 1) McKay, Bobby "Norm Smith" Hill, T Marshall

Still a statistic in its infancy to draw too much from. But nice to see they are adding and evolving new statistics as they always will.

most of the players in this convo hot point seem to be earlier than the statistic for their prime years which makes it tricky.

Probably a more useful tool for this generation once they are done and dusted like Tom green max holmes Oliver

 

[Handsuper47]

Rowell has a chance of having the most of all time I think, he wins about 75 percent of his footy that way, doesn’t like anything uncontested, which actually sort of limits him as a player.

if Gold Coast ever make the finals then Rowell can finally show off his stuff

 

[Aaron Reed]

Richmond supporter crying that Patrick Dangerfield is a contested possession beast.

If Dangerfield still played for Adelaide and not Geelong I doubt this Richmond supporter would even care.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I provide useful data on 83 players from across the AFL and get swamped by obsessed Cats posters whingeing for England that there isn't a Cats player at the top of the data. I can't go anywhere on these boards without this happening. You guys must have Meteoric Rise posts on red alert and as soon as I post you answer the clarion call to arms in a vain effort to stop me posting facts. Strange supporter group.

Tbh not sure how things turned sour as I wasn’t aware of that statistic and found it interesting.

Can you clarify the difference between contested possession and hard ball get?? I imagine a lot of overlap

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Mainly more handball receives and Nick Daycare style "contested" possessions where there is nobody within 5 metres of you when you pick the ball up.

I know you are just trying to stir a little. I think it’s a pretty reasonable assumption that he probably would have been high in that statistic given the nature of his game style. I also think you are well aware of that, but just having a bit of banter fun.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Tbh not sure how things turned sour as I wasn’t aware of that statistic and found it interesting.

Can you clarify the difference between contested possession and hard ball get?? I imagine a lot of overlap

A hard ball get is a possession won under immediate physical pressure, I am guessing that would be with opponents having strongish physical contact with you while you are winning the ball. Contested marks are not included.

Contested possessions include hard ball gets, ground ball gets under no immediate physical contact(loose ball gets,) contested marks, and any other possession won when the ball is in dispute. I am unsure whether intercepts count but educated guess says no. Jeremy Cameron desperately trying to claim an out on the full he is not entitled to over one of his team-mates doesn't count as a contested possession.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I know you are just trying to stir a little. I think it’s a pretty reasonable assumption that he probably would have been high in that statistic given the nature of his game style. I also think you are well aware of that, but just having a bit of banter fun.

Sadly Meow does not get satire at all.

Of course Dangerfield is a good contest winner. Whether he has ever been quite as prolific in hard balls as the wriggling worm types like Oliver and Liberatore, I am not so sure, it would be great to have those stats available going right back.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Sadly Meow does not get satire at all.

Of course Dangerfield is a good contest winner. Whether he has ever been quite as prolific in hard balls as the wriggling worm types like Oliver and Liberatore, I am not so sure, it would be great to have those stats available going right back.

I can personally see it being a statistic that if the definition requires close contact.. I mean honestly what defines under physical pressure ??? Bit vague. Is 1m ?? Is 1.2m ?? Is only body contact close?? very wishy washy.

It is probably a stat if I had to take a guess at it would overall be higher for the bigger slower strength mids as compared to the explosive mids as one tends to get more and explosive separation than the other as they get closed down. Being under pressure when you dispose of it as a statistic doesn’t translate to a good performance imo.

Just a an educated guess

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I can personally see it being a statistic that if the definition requires close contact.. I mean honestly what defines under physical pressure ??? Bit vague. Is 1m ?? Is 1.2m ?? Is only body contact close?? very wishy washy.

It is probably a stat if I had to take a guess at it would overall be higher for the bigger slower strength mids as compared to the explosive mids as one tends to get more and explosive separation than the other as they get closed down. Being under pressure when you dispose of it as a statistic doesn’t translate to a good performance imo.

Just a an educated guess

"HARDBALL GET A disputed ball at ground level under direct physical pressure or out of a ruck contest, resulting in an opportunity to effect a legal disposal."

So the key here is "direct physical pressure." To me that means an opponent in physical contact with you as you win the possession but it has to culminate in you having the opportunity to dispose of the ball legally. So you win the ball whilst in contact with an opponent and get yourself into a position to dispose of the ball by hand or foot. Or perhaps you win the ball after you have beaten off physical contact it still counts? I would think so.

I imagine when most people think of a contested possession, this and contested marks is mainly what they think of.

I recall Hardwick after one Bulldogs v Richmond match pointing out how good a player he thought Liberatore was for the precise reason that he won a lot of these possessions and was tough to stop. I rarely ever heard him say things like that. He would happily say a highly rated player like a Cripps or Dangerfield was a "great" player or something equally vague, but he never looked that bothered about it. But you could tell from the different way he said it he really rated Liberatore a big weapon.

 

[PhatBoy]

Lol. So it is fine for you to make fantasy extrapolations but when somebody else satirises your Geelong centric fantasy post you take it seriously and start crying.

The truth is you don't know how many hard ball gets Dangerfield or anyone else got before 2021, and no amount of wishpraying Dangerfield into the dominant hard ball get player during another period will prove it to be true.

Jeez you don't want to ever be the poor bugger providing facts to deluded cats supporters around here. By the way, Liberatore got more hard gets than your fapgod as a 31 and 32yo and it wasn't even close. So maybe you can extrapolate that fact into something less fantastic than the nonsense you have been coming up with so far.

It’s exactly what you did. Why can’t he do it?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

"HARDBALL GET A disputed ball at ground level under direct physical pressure or out of a ruck contest, resulting in an opportunity to effect a legal disposal."

So the key here is "direct physical pressure." To me that means an opponent in physical contact with you as you win the possession but it has to culminate in you having the opportunity to dispose of the ball legally. So you win the ball whilst in contact with an opponent and get yourself into a position to dispose of the ball by hand or foot. Or perhaps you win the ball after you have beaten off physical contact it still counts? I would think so.

I imagine when most people think of a contested possession, this and contested marks is mainly what they think of.

So only if there is physical contact at some point?. I would still say that is a statistic that is more favorable for the slower strength midfielders like Kennedy cripps compared to the judd dangerfield Martin types who get separation more easily.

It’s a nice isolated statistic, but I think if you applied an eyeball test, what is considered a ground ball get for cripps may end up for dangerfield or judd being borderline lose ball get or just a contested possession due to separating in an identical scenario.

I still like the holistic picture of contested possession as it encompasses more aspect of a well rounded picture of a midfielders ability to contest for the ball in various scenarios.

Good contribution adding that stat.

I think there are plenty of elements you can add to make this discussion more detailed and interesting.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

"HARDBALL GET A disputed ball at ground level under direct physical pressure or out of a ruck contest, resulting in an opportunity to effect a legal disposal."

So the key here is "direct physical pressure." To me that means an opponent in physical contact with you as you win the possession but it has to culminate in you having the opportunity to dispose of the ball legally. So you win the ball whilst in contact with an opponent and get yourself into a position to dispose of the ball by hand or foot. Or perhaps you win the ball after you have beaten off physical contact it still counts? I would think so.

I imagine when most people think of a contested possession, this and contested marks is mainly what they think of.

I recall Hardwick after one Bulldogs v Richmond match pointing out how good a player he thought Liberatore was for the precise reason that he won a lot of these possessions and was tough to stop. I rarely ever heard him say things like that. He would happily say a highly rated player like a Cripps or Dangerfield was a "great" player or something equally vague, but he never looked that bothered about it. But you could tell from the different way he said it he really rated Liberatore a big weapon.

Libba is one that comes to mind for me as well as in terms of pure grunt work is right up there with the best In his prime. I recall a game down at geelong where he was a human battering ram and almost every statistic was an in and under contest he just rammed thru.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Love the respect JKP is getting in this thread

Flys under the radar a little compared to some of his peers imo but Geeze what a gun

As others have mentioned Danger is probably the current reigning king in that department but Cripps deserves a mention as well