Bickley does things Craig could never do

[L_Maximus]

yeah, no way Craigy would have picked him once he got over his knee injury and with Tippett injured

funny how our biggest issue against Geelong was apparently our forward entries but that had nothing to do with Tex hanging out the back or sharking the packs

how can you build a forward line around that?

Impression I got was that Craigy wanted Tex to play a few more games for norwood to regain match fitness.

Yes, Tex could have/should have provided more contests, but I also think the quality of delivery is a contributing factor to our F50 entries.

Never said you could build a forward line around him, as I've said elswhere I think Tex is more a second fiddle forward who relies on smarts to beat his opponent. He's not a forward you can bomb it long to and guarantee a mark or a contest.

 

[Slippery Pete]

yeah, no way Craigy would have picked him once he got over his knee injury and with Tippett injured

Can you please explain the following quote from Nathan van Berlo on Triple M last week?

"The more we can get Taylor out there, get him used to our gamestyle, and basically just play him, the better he's going to get. We can see the talent he has and we're looking forward to seeing him develop in the last four games."

Can you still look me square in the eye and tell me there has been no change in the approach taken toward Taylor Walker's selection?

This is a CLEAR separation from the "Taylor needs to work on his deficiencies at Norwood before he becomes a team regular" garbage that has been trotted out from the club for two years.

 

[srv23]

yeah, no way Craigy would have picked him once he got over his knee injury and with Tippett injured

funny how our biggest issue against Geelong was apparently our forward entries but that had nothing to do with Tex hanging out the back or sharking the packs

how can you build a forward line around that?

Yeah - that's what he did - even though of his 3 goals -2 came from marks - 1 contested and 1 on the lead - and the other came from a clever kick from Sloane that allowed Taylor to run into space in the 50 and kick a goal. He also gave off a kick to Maric after marking on the boundary line inside 50 and Maric proceeded to miss the goal. The guy is only 21.

But hey - instead we should build a forward line around a 24 year old who has kicked 0 goals in 6 games this year and only 1 goal in another 2. A guy who despite being lauded as a contested marking freak has gone 4 games without taking a contested mark and countless others where he's only taken 1. A guy who has had 10 or less touches in 5 games, and in those games where he's barely touched the ball, has not even been able to contribute on the scoreboard like Walker did yesterday. Any comments on Tippet's 1 disposal 0 marks 0 goals 0 1%er game against West Coast? I mean if we're going to pick on just 1 poor game, how the hell can we build a forward line around that?

We are actually bloody lucky to have forwards with the talent of Walker and Tippett. They compliment each other beautifully and if we can get a half decent forward coach who can utilise each players strengths and minimise their weaknesses and they will be unstoppable.

 

[srv23]

Can you please explain the following quote from Nathan van Berlo on Triple M last week?

"The more we can get Taylor out there, get him used to our gamestyle, and basically just play him, the better he's going to get. We can see the talent he has and we're looking forward to seeing him develop in the last four games."

Can you still look me square in the eye and tell me there has been no change in the approach taken toward Taylor Walker's selection?

VB also said on 5aa that one of the first things the leadership group did after Craig resigned was to go to Bickley and demand Walker's selection in the team regardless of any queries about his fitness.

 

[SydCrow]

We are actually bloody lucky to have forwards with the talent of Walker and Tippett. They compliment each other beautifully and if we can get a half decent forward coach who can utilise each players strengths and minimise their weaknesses and they will be unstoppable.

yes, imagine if Tippett could move and kick like Tex or if Tex had Tippett's desire for a contest

 

[ftmch]

Of course Craig would have played Tex - any suggestion that this has been a masterstroke from Bicks is ludicrous.

 

[srv23]

yes, imagine if Tippett could move and kick like Tex or if Tex had Tippett's desire for a contest

Imagine if instead of wishing each player was more like the other in certain ways, we could actually structure a forward line that capitalises on Tip's contested marking and bringing the ball to ground, whilst also utilising Walkers footy smarts, ability to read the play and natural goal sense

 

[Slippery Pete]

Of course Craig would have played Tex .

Maybe, but how long for? He probably would have dropped him this week.

There has been clear commitment from Bickley that Walker will play out the season, regardless of what happens. That's the difference.

 

[srv23]

Of course Craig would have played Tex - any suggestion that this has been a masterstroke from Bicks is ludicrous.

As soon as Tippett did his hammy, yes I think Craig would have played him. But Rowey on 5aa (for what's that worth) said that he'd heard that Craig had told Walker he had a month back at Norwood to find fitness and form before he'd be considered for selection. Bicks selected him before Tippett went down.

 

[SydCrow]

Maybe, but how long for? He probably would have dropped him this week.

There has been clear commitment from Bickley that Walker will play out the season, regardless of what happens. That's the difference.

it helps that Bicks doesn't need to win games

 

[L_Maximus]

it helps that Bicks doesn't need to win games

Tex kicking goals helps us win games.

 

[Slippery Pete]

it helps that Bicks doesn't need to win games

If Craig did, he wasn't showing it. Judging by the last two years.

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

Now I admire your source, S Rowe. According to Rowey's previous doses of "good oil" we can be confident that Bock, Davis, Walker and Vince will all line up in the tricolour next year.

Back to the facts, will the Taylor Walker fan club look at the last 5 minutes of Sunday's match. We are trailing by 6 points, less than 5 minutes to go and there are two one-on-ones in the goal square. The ball is kicked to Jacobs and Harry Taylor but clearly visible on the right of the screen Taylor takes a perfect position to hunt the crumb as Lonergan strolls past him, floats in front of Jacobs and takes the match winning mark.

Now I defy anyone who watches this vision to dispute the fact that Taylor is a long, long way from being a gun key forward. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Milne. (in all fairness Stevie has taken some good contested marks this year)

I love Taylor's ability below his knees. He is not quite Tony Modra but outstanding for a guy his size. His tackling and pressure acts have improved greatly since earlier this year which was the one and only time he has been dropped in 2011, for two games if I recall correctly. He returned only to injure his knee (Craigies fault), get reported (Craigies fault) and the heinous crime was not to select him as soon as he had a crappy game for Norwood.

But his leading looks more like a 3 step shuffle and he often fails to get to the marking contest let alone take a pack mark.

There are only two players in our team that would get a start in the top 4 teams, Tippett and Thompson. Collingwood would not drop Krakouer to bring in Taylor Walker.

P.S. I still really, really hope that Taylor ignores all the fawning from the TW cheer squad and develops into the players that he could become.

 

[Wood_Duck]

Back to the facts, will the Taylor Walker fan club look at the last 5 minutes of Sunday's match. We are trailing by 6 points, less than 5 minutes to go and there are two one-on-ones in the goal square. The ball is kicked to Jacobs and Harry Taylor but clearly visible on the right of the screen Taylor takes a perfect position to hunt the crumb as Lonergan strolls past him, floats in front of Jacobs and takes the match winning mark.

Now I defy anyone who watches this vision to dispute the fact that Taylor is a long, long way from being a gun key forward. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Milne. (in all fairness Stevie has taken some good contested marks this year)

I dont necessarily disagree with this.

I love Taylor's ability below his knees. He is not quite Tony Modra but outstanding for a guy his size. His tackling and pressure acts have improved greatly since earlier this year which was the one and only time he has been dropped in 2011, for two games if I recall correctly. He returned only to injure his knee (Craigies fault), get reported (Craigies fault) and the heinous crime was not to select him as soon as he had a crappy game for Norwood.

But his leading looks more like a 3 step shuffle and he often fails to get to the marking contest let alone take a pack mark.

There are only two players in our team that would get a start in the top 4 teams, Tippett and Thompson. Collingwood would not drop Krakouer to bring in Taylor Walker.

This is way too harsh and you are really not giving Walker any credit. He will be an outstanding player and is far better than a 3rd forward or a Milne like crumber. Sure he is not developing quickly but at least there is plenty there to develop.

 

[Slippery Pete]

A Few Good Men is operating under the assumption that anybody here believes Taylor Walker is a perfect footballer.

The discussion is about Walker's development as a footballer, not what his strengths and weaknesses are.

Keeping that in mind, I would like you to explain to me whether being dropped 5 times in a 40 game career has been good for his development, whether dropping him when he was leading the goalkicking this year has been good for his development, and lastly, whether the NEW commitment from the coaching staff and captain to play him for the rest of this season regardless of adherence to Neil Craig's garbage KPIs, is good for his development. Do you disagree with this commitment?

 

[srv23]

Now I admire your source, S Rowe. According to Rowey's previous doses of "good oil" we can be confident that Bock, Davis, Walker and Vince will all line up in the tricolour next year.

Back to the facts, will the Taylor Walker fan club look at the last 5 minutes of Sunday's match. We are trailing by 6 points, less than 5 minutes to go and there are two one-on-ones in the goal square. The ball is kicked to Jacobs and Harry Taylor but clearly visible on the right of the screen Taylor takes a perfect position to hunt the crumb as Lonergan strolls past him, floats in front of Jacobs and takes the match winning mark.

Now I defy anyone who watches this vision to dispute the fact that Taylor is a long, long way from being a gun key forward. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Milne. (in all fairness Stevie has taken some good contested marks this year)

I love Taylor's ability below his knees. He is not quite Tony Modra but outstanding for a guy his size. His tackling and pressure acts have improved greatly since earlier this year which was the one and only time he has been dropped in 2011, for two games if I recall correctly. He returned only to injure his knee (Craigies fault), get reported (Craigies fault) and the heinous crime was not to select him as soon as he had a crappy game for Norwood.

But his leading looks more like a 3 step shuffle and he often fails to get to the marking contest let alone take a pack mark.

There are only two players in our team that would get a start in the top 4 teams, Tippett and Thompson. Collingwood would not drop Krakouer to bring in Taylor Walker.

P.S. I still really, really hope that Taylor ignores all the fawning from the TW cheer squad and develops into the players that he could become.

So you are going to focus on 1 incident in last weekends game and use it as your justification to continue to bag the bloke. Could he have made a better contest - absolutely. Is that worthy of ignoring all the really positive things he is doing as a 21 year old key forward - definitely not. I mean if we're going to focus on 1 incident, or 1 game then clearly Tippett's 1 disposal, 0 marks 0 goal game against West Coast was so pathetic he has no chance of making it as a key forward.

Walker is a long long way off being a gun key forward..no bloody kidding. He's 21 years old. However he has kicked more goals in his first 40 odd game than pretty much any other gun key forward of the last decade. He has things to work on to improve..no kidding, he's 21 years old.

I know he's not perfect and I agree he has to hit some contests harder and work a bit harder off the ball, but his efforts over the last 3 weeks have shown a massive improvement in this area. You could give him some credit for his improvements in the areas he needed to work on but instead you focus on a handful of instances where he probably could have done better. Well you know what, this entire season there have been 30 odd players who have pulled on the guernsey who in some instances "could have done better", and in other instances have been uncompetetive and pathetic. Some of those guys are 100+ game senior players. Walker is only 21 and has played less than 50 games.

You bang on about "Walker fan clubs" who have blind love for the guy - well you know what - most of us actually recognise his faults and know he needs to improve in certain areas, but we also recognise his talent and ability and that he needs to be in the team to work on those aspects of his game. It's the anti-Walker types who are so dismissive of anything positive the guy does, and instead focus on any minor negative thing they can bring up. Did his effort cost the game - maybe. But hey - a stupid Rutten hold, a Thompson out on the full cost us wins in finals - guess we should have realised then the deficiencies those guys have in their games and realised that we could not build a defence around Rutten or a midfield around Thompson.

In short, he's young, he's learning, he has faults and the last 3 weeks have shown some improvements in those areas. He is also an immense talent who will continue to improve if given the oppurtunity.

BTW - the 6ft2 crumbing forward thing is getting old - 7 out of 11 goals from marks, 2 from his own pressure acts, 1 from a second effort after a contested marking contest, and 1 from clever use of space in the forward 50....wouldn't a crumbing forward get, you know, most of their goals from crumbs...?

Also Milne has taken 9 contested marks in 19 games(0.4 per game), Walker has taken 14 in 10 (1.4 per game)..

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

Now we are getting somewhere. So we all agree that was a very ordinary effort on Sunday (have you watched it yet slippery?).

It wasn't the only one but I don't want to get picky. I could compile a highlight tape of very average efforts in a contested marking situation over his 40 game career but I think (?) we are all now in agreement that this is not his strength.

My concern is that in key areas nothing has changed in three years. I love the highlight reel of his goals but he needs to learn how to lead, a genuine Jack Darling like lead and how to at least make a contest when the high ball comes in. The solution isn't to stand still and hope his greater weight and strength enables him to get the ball, although this works occasionally.

Regarding the disgraceful treatment of Taylor over the last three years, haven't we already established that he has played more games before turning 21 than 95% of key forwards over the last 6 years?

So the reason he has not worked on his weaknesses is that we failed to plonk him in the goal square and waited for him to mature like a good red wine?

P.S. I also consistently said that Carlton would not win a flag with Fevola at full forward and he won the Coleman medal.

 

[SydCrow]

it's a good question as to who will turn out to be the better player - Jack Darling or Tex

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...1=2364&tid2=19&pid2=3471&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

Jack has Tex covered in most stats this year apart from goals (2.5 v 1) but this may be partly due to Darling's lead up role (although I50s are 2.7 v 2.4 in favour of Darling).

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Now we are getting somewhere. So we all agree that was a very ordinary effort on Sunday (have you watched it yet slippery?).

Just to clarify, you are suggesting that Walker should have competed against Jacobs?

It wasn't the only one but I don't want to get picky. I could compile a highlight tape of very average efforts in a contested marking situation over his 40 game career but I think (?) we are all now in agreement that this is not his strength.

Just out of interest, could you compile a similar tape from any other players in the competition? Or are we dealing with unique flaws?

Regarding the disgraceful treatment of Taylor over the last three years, haven't we already established that he has played more games before turning 21 than 95% of key forwards over the last 6 years?

Have we established that he has been dropped more times before turning 21 than 100% of the key forwards over the last 6 years?

Whoops... sorry. I forgot Michael Newton. I like to refer to Newton as the benchmark.

Gunston is the best positioned forward to take this record off him - he got dropped 4 times in his first 9 games. Though that has dried up recently.

P.S. I also consistently said that Carlton would not win a flag with Fevola at full forward and he won the Coleman medal.

That's extremely clever of you and you were proven correct. Well done. Although... 15 out of 16 teams every year fail to win a premiership so it wasn't exactly going out on a limb.

I predict that no club will win the premiership next year. I reckon I'll be proven 94.4% correct.

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

Carl,

The options were

1) make a strong lead towards Wrighty (i.e.GTFOOT) and leave the height advantage of Jacobs to win the day.

2) Ensure that Lonergan was not able to get to the contest. The ball was directed to Jacobs.

3) As a minimum making it a 2-on-2 would be O.K.

Standing there ball watching as Lonergan moved past Taylor and in front of Sammy indicated a lack of concentration, a poor understanding of football or just plain laziness.

Have you seen the clip Carl? Can someone put it on the thread so everyone knows "that's what I'm talking about"

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Yes, I've seen the clip.

Do you think the AFC coaching staff when going through the video tape with the players would be taking issue with Walker for not crashing the pack or leading his man elsewhere? Or with Jacobs for not punching from behind?

Both maybe?

I don't think anyone considers Walker the complete package. The issue for a long time was the club's continued use of the SANFL as a finishing school. It is anything but. Though to be fair, recent weeks at least suggest that this attitude may not necessarily have been a club decision.

However, if Bickley comes out this week and we lose Gunston, McKernan and Riley then nothing's changed and again we should run the whole match committee out of the club at season's end.

 

[srv23]

Now we are getting somewhere. So we all agree that was a very ordinary effort on Sunday (have you watched it yet slippery?).

It wasn't the only one but I don't want to get picky. I could compile a highlight tape of very average efforts in a contested marking situation over his 40 game career but I think (?) we are all now in agreement that this is not his strength.

My concern is that in key areas nothing has changed in three years. I love the highlight reel of his goals but he needs to learn how to lead, a genuine Jack Darling like lead and how to at least make a contest when the high ball comes in. The solution isn't to stand still and hope his greater weight and strength enables him to get the ball, although this works occasionally.

Regarding the disgraceful treatment of Taylor over the last three years, haven't we already established that he has played more games before turning 21 than 95% of key forwards over the last 6 years?

So the reason he has not worked on his weaknesses is that we failed to plonk him in the goal square and waited for him to mature like a good red wine?

P.S. I also consistently said that Carlton would not win a flag with Fevola at full forward and he won the Coleman medal.

Ha ha - way to completely misinterpret what I said and ignore a whole lot of other points you chose not to address - as well as prove my point that the "walker fans" can readily accept he has flaws while the anti-Walker people can only focus on the negativity and not even bring themselves to concede that he might actually do some good things.

I agree he has some aspects of his game to work on - I would suggest he's shown some very significant improvements in these areas unlike you who thinks he hasn't improved in 3 years.


Any comments on Tippet's efforts this season including his 6 games with out a goal and 4 games without a contested mark - you may be surprised to learn that Walker has had less games this season without taking a contested mark than Tippett has.

Any comments on claiming Milne takes contested marks but Walker doesn't when Milnes is averaging 0.4 contested marks a game while Walker is averaging 1.4 - and is averaging 2.0 per game in the last 3 weeks which is more than Franklin and both Riewoldts for the year. In fact Darling who you are so fond of comparing Walker to is averaging 1.4 per game. I think that given he compares favourably with some of the best forwards in the game - I think his contested marking is not too bad really.

Any comments on your assertion that Walker is a 6ft2 crumbing forward when 7 of his 11 goals came from marks either contested or on the lead? In fact one of his 11 goals occured exactly as you wanted - a ball coming in high that he brought to ground in a contested marking contest, then put in the second effort to receive the handpass and kick the goal.

You see I can see he has things to work on in his game - but you are so focussed on looking at everything negative that he does that you are completely incapable of accepting that he does some very good things. Tippet's worst games this year have been far far worse than Taylor's worst games - yet you still think Tippett is a guy you can build a forward line around and Walker isn't.

Just curious why you are so obsessed with bashing Walker's poor efforts yet you have no comments about the repeated uncompetetive lack of effort/intensity/defensive work that every single player in our side has demonstrated at some point in time this year. (Truck, thommo, stiffy excluded) Walker is a 21 year old kid, what's the excuse for the senior guys?

 

[Slippery Pete]

The issue for a long time was the club's continued use of the SANFL as a finishing school.

This is kind of what I imagined the club to be like under Craigy.....


[YOUTUBE]3tcsqcIEUpM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[A FEW GOOD MEN]

Obsessed with bashing Taylor Walker, now that's a bit harsh srv23.

What I object to is - the obsession by many posters (I'm not naming names) with blaming Neil Craig, Steven Trigg, the coaching panel, the medical staff etc for everything that has gone wrong over the last two years.

What I object to is - some posters (I'm not naming names) constantly demeaning some players because they don't have elite skill (Stevens, Symes, Doughty, Reilly, van Berlo, Henderson, Douglas, Cook, Sellar and Moran) but other players can make more turnovers, skill errors, lazy tackles etc but that's O.K. because they have great potential. I love the approach of Dangerfield, Sloane, Johncock, Thompson and Petrenko but no one mentions their errors. (Well excluding the Vader/Petrenko thing) Against Brisbane Taylor dropped his head and stuck up one hand but did I see a single criticism on BigFooty? Yet if Ricky Henderson did it we would have to start three new threads.

What I object to is - abusing the coach/selectors for not playing Tambling and Martin but since the new Crows emerged three weeks ago then that's O.K.

In summary I think it is healthy to provide an alternate view point based on facts not prejudice. I have yet to see one person dispute the "facts" that I have provided.

 

[Cap]

so you now think Walker is alright but we should stop "bashing" other players?

or was that post just to completely change the topic?