Injury Blue Healers Discussion - 2024

[Blue_Fusion]

Enough is enough...

Russell won't be sacked mid-season... just not going to happen. But hard to see him surviving now.

Yes these blokes are injury prone but fmd surely you can get them right for more than a handful of quarters out of them?

Cerra played almost 6 quarters, back on the injury list...
Martin played 4 quarters, back on the injury list...
Cunners, 4 quarters, a half in VFL, back on the injury list...

We are really going to have no choice but to bring Fanta back in now...

OUT: Martin, Cerra, Cottrell
IN: Fanta, Williams, Carroll

Hewett obv will replace Cerra. Williams needs to play forward and pinch hit in the middle. Fanta to replace Martin. Carroll sub.

 

[blues4flag]

With Martin as an example, what's Russell to do? He gets back in after a conservative build up, spends a couple weeks extra to make sure he's right to go. Gets through the first game but then the very next game is injured.

Where was Russell to intervene? Unlikely to be excessive load, given he's played just the one game. 4 days between the last game and the training session.

There's only so much S&C can do, they're not miracle workers. Were there any warning signs to allow them to intervene? Loads would likely have been within band. Not sure on what processes we have in place, but other than load, they'd probably be looking at things like RPE (is Martin reporting soreness), force plate or mobility measures (weakness in the muscle), or perhaps gait analysis on the GPS devices (I know this was an area of focus 5 years ago, not sure how widely used it is).

It's so hard to assess from the outside, particularly when it's the same players again and again getting the recurring injuries.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

 

[JustOneTime]

With Martin as an example, what's Russell to do? He gets back in after a conservative build up, spends a couple weeks extra to make sure he's right to go. Gets through the first game but then the very next game is injured.

Where was Russell to intervene? Unlikely to be excessive load, given he's played just the one game. 4 days between the last game and the training session.

There's only so much S&C can do, they're not miracle workers. Were there any warning signs to allow them to intervene? Loads would likely have been within band. Not sure on what processes we have in place, but other than load, they'd probably be looking at things like RPE (is Martin reporting soreness), force plate or mobility measures (weakness in the muscle), or perhaps gait analysis on the GPS devices (I know this was an area of focus 5 years ago, not sure how widely used it is).

It's so hard to assess from the outside, particularly when it's the same players again and again getting the recurring injuries.

Maybe just the reconditioning/training would be different under a different high performance team. There might be two methods which are right but for Martin, maybe its someone else 'right' method.

But i also agree with your point too. He could be totally innocent.

The issues are mounting for him as Cerra, Motlop are joining the party. Plus with his high salary where has he won the battle with hamstrings with any of our players? Cunners? Cerra? Martin? The list is getting longer, not shorter.

There is a saturation point where right or wrong he is accountable. Plenty of innocents have bought the bullet in the sporting workplace.

What is important is that we all embrace the sheer bad luck and lunacy of it all....

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the high performance manager and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of high performance and good will, shepherds the devout supporters through the valley of hamstrung darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper.

 

[athensblue]

Martin could be that warwyk capper moment that got Walsy

May be time for a change

Will take a lot from the rest to get up in Sydney

 

[myblueroan]

From what Cook said recently the club is involved in an ongoing investigation of this matter, this isn't something that can be fixed overnight, I imagine that we will see some changes at the season's end.

I feel like smashing things right now, but yes. This is sensible.
We don't know if players are doing everything they can to be put on the park.
We'll never know.
Or they try their hearts out and have ****ed up training regimes?

Or neither. It's a combination of player physical issues that can't be fixed. Only managed.

The grounds we play on? The same as other teams except Princes Park. And more Marvel than some other teams
A combination of all, or some of the above.

It sucks.

Doesn't mean our season is ruined though.

Let's hope not.

 

[Soapy V]

Far too many injuries at our club over a sustained period.

Agree but WHY?

 

[sparkybagger]

Martin was on my flight to CBR a few weeks back where he gets external treatment on his calves. Obviously his trip up there was a waste of time too ....

 

[Soapy V]

Martin was on my flight to CBR a few weeks back where he gets external treatment on his calves. Obviously his trip up there was a waste of time too ....

Some players just don’t have the body to handle AFL football. It’s that simple

Martin Cuningham Marchbank are those players. The club has tried everything and they are all in their own individual programs and we have been incredibly cautious with all of them

 

[BlacresFingertips]

Have been told by a High-Performance Specialist who has previously been employed at multiple AFL clubs that the general consensus among their peers is that AR is archaic in his practices. He only believes in the old-fashioned flogging of his players in order to build fitness.

The club began implementing personalised training programs last year for particular players - I am not sure whether they remain in place.

 

[bigm386]

You know what amazes me. The logic that players are injury prone and therefore it's surely nothing to do with our program.

If the player's were injured on game day I'd cop that. But a significant portion of these injuries are at training. Surely you would manage players loads...

VFL plays Friday. Wet slog of a game. Training Sunday O'Keeffe does a significant hamstring. But yer just another injury prone players I guess.

 

[Soapy V]

Have been told by a High-Performance Specialist who has previously been employed at multiple AFL clubs that the general consensus among their peers is that AR is archaic in his practices. He only believes in the old-fashioned flogging of his players in order to build fitness.

I can tell you first hand that is BS

 

[Soapy V]

You know what amazes me. The logic that players are injury prone and therefore it's surely nothing to do with our program.

If the player's were injured on game day I'd cop that. But a significant portion of these injuries are at training. Surely you would manage players loads...

VFL plays Friday. Wet slog of a game. Training Sunday O'Keeffe does a significant hamstring. But yer just another injury prone players I guess.

If there was a perfect solution to soft tissue injuries NO ONE would get them

No one has ever suggested O’Keefe is injury prone

 

[BlacresFingertips]

I can tell you first hand that is BS

Just passing on what I've been told. I sincerely hope that you're correct.

 

[Arr0w]

You know what amazes me. The logic that players are injury prone and therefore it's surely nothing to do with our program.

If the player's were injured on game day I'd cop that. But a significant portion of these injuries are at training. Surely you would manage players loads...

VFL plays Friday. Wet slog of a game. Training Sunday O'Keeffe does a significant hamstring. But yer just another injury prone players I guess.

It funny though, some players at multiple clubs have remained injury prone, this with 2 or more high performance teams, and league wide

Don't think anyone has stated O'Keffee as injury prone, but didn't he do the hammy while jumping on a ruck bag? High Performance or technique?

It seems content is heavily weighted in one direction, in a means to justify a position on the topic

 

[bigm386]

It funny though, some players at multiple clubs have remained injury prone, this with 2 or more high performance teams, and league wide

Don't think anyone has stated O'Keffee as injury prone, but didn't he do the hammy while jumping on a ruck bag? High Performance or technique?

It seems content is heavily weighted in one direction, in a means to justify a position on the topic

Id be asking why the VFL boys didn't have 1 day recovery and 1 day rest after a wet Friday game personally.

 

[blues4flag]

Id be asking why the VFL boys didn't have 1 day recovery and 1 day rest after a wet Friday game personally.

By all reports it wasn't a high intensity session.

 

[bigm386]

By all reports it wasn't a high intensity session.

Disagree and it's also about the load which is cumulative.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Way way over reactions going on…

Let’s face it we all know Martin is injury prone - any game you get out of him is a blessing

Yeah Ive calmed down a bit. Three of these players have bodies that simply arent up to it, very talented just not durable. Did Russell come on board to help King Charles?? If so he has worked a miracle considering how ****ed his injuries were, they were really serious. I think he has done well with managing Walsh's back. Every time he comes back he hasn't missed a beat.

I'm going with Cook, if he trusts him and backs him so will I. I wanted Voss gone halfway through last year and boy do I feel like a silly sausage now. Cook believed in him and backed him so if he does with Russell Ill stick with it.

In saying that we need to stop risking talent over injury. Martin, Cunners and Marchbank need to go, we wont contend with three sicknotes taking up list spots.

 

[RPCB]

Yeah Ive calmed down a bit. Three of these players have bodies that simply arent up to it, very talented just not durable. Did Russell come on board to help King Charles?? If so he has worked a miracle considering how ****ed his injuries were, they were really serious. I think he has done well with managing Walsh's back. Every time he comes back he hasn't missed a beat.

I'm going with Cook, if he trusts him and backs him so will I. I wanted Voss gone halfway through last year and boy do I feel like a silly sausage now. Cook believed in him and backed him so if he does with Russell Ill stick with it.

In saying that we need to stop risking talent over injury. Martin, Cunners and Marchbank need to go, we wont contend with three sicknotes taking up list spots.

That will be the easiest thing Nick Austin will ever do in his list management career. Just don’t be a fool and offer new contracts.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Yeah Ive calmed down a bit. Three of these players have bodies that simply arent up to it, very talented just not durable. Did Russell come on board to help King Charles?? If so he has worked a miracle considering how ****ed his injuries were, they were really serious. I think he has done well with managing Walsh's back. Every time he comes back he hasn't missed a beat.

I'm going with Cook, if he trusts him and backs him so will I. I wanted Voss gone halfway through last year and boy do I feel like a silly sausage now. Cook believed in him and backed him so if he does with Russell Ill stick with it.

In saying that we need to stop risking talent over injury. Martin, Cunners and Marchbank need to go, we wont contend with three sicknotes taking up list spots.

You may well be right - but we don’t have a crystal ball, what if we were to reach a GF and/or win the whole thing & these three play their part (once able).

Would we ship them all off then?

I’m sure the List Team are all over this & waiting to see how the rest of the year unfolds.

2-3 back next week. Easier run home…

Things will look brighter on the other side of this emotional wave.

 

[Cripps Nubake]

I was excited as anyone when Russell came across from Hawthorn - what a coup! I’ve defended him multiple times, but it’s getting nearly impossible for anyone to continue to defend him now. Outside of the 4 walls we never know the full picture, but all we have to go off is the reoccurring injury list which just doesn’t stack up in his favour.

A change has to come, we can’t continue on the path any longer.

 

[Arr0w]

Id be asking why the VFL boys didn't have 1 day recovery and 1 day rest after a wet Friday game personally.

Every club does a recovery session the next day, hot, cold, snowing on gameday

It doesn't bother me if people want one person only to be moved on, but hopefully the opinion or so called facts are delivered in a balanced way

Otherwise, it might be best to just state, "I want Russell gone whether it's entirely his fault or there are mitigating factors"

 

[blues4flag]

My take - there's just too many unknowns from the outside to be able to form a concrete conclusion. We don't have the data to draw valid opinions.

The obvious - terrible list management under SOS, who constantly went for the injury-prone players at a discount. Even Cerra was questionable at the time. Glad we didn't go hard after the likes of Gresham last year.

The not-so-obvious:

• Do we have personalised programs for injury prone individuals
• Are we following best practice wrt to load management, and regularly assessing players' risk before sessions
• Are we following best practice wrt injury prevention in how we strengthen and correct issues with injury-prone players
• Are we resourced well enough to dedicate sufficient S&C time to all 38 players on the list, and not just those in the recovery group
• Training standards - are the players too competitive, and the less resilient types can't keep up with the likes of Walsh and Hollands on the track
• Are we doing too much load on the track as a whole, and if so, is that being driven by S&C or the football department
• Is our game style too taxing? Are players being asked to do too much with the way we play and structure?
• Does the surface at PP contribute?

A lot of those questions are impossible to answer from the outside but are exactly the sort of data points we'd need to correctly assess what actions we need to take.

I'm generally not a fan of wholesale change - find competent people and adjust if necessary. If there are issues, can they be identified and addressed without having to move on AR?

 

[RPCB]

My take - there's just too many unknowns from the outside to be able to form a concrete conclusion. We don't have the data to draw valid opinions.

The obvious - terrible list management under SOS, who constantly went for the injury-prone players at a discount. Even Cerra was questionable at the time. Glad we didn't go hard after the likes of Gresham last year.

The not-so-obvious:

• Do we have personalised programs for injury prone individuals
• Are we following best practice wrt to load management, and regularly assessing players' risk before sessions
• Are we following best practice wrt injury prevention in how we strengthen and correct issues with injury-prone players
• Are we resourced well enough to dedicate sufficient S&C time to all 38 players on the list, and not just those in the recovery group
• Training standards - are the players too competitive, and the less resilient types can't keep up with the likes of Walsh and Hollands on the track
• Are we doing too much load on the track as a whole, and if so, is that being driven by S&C or the football department
• Is our game style too taxing? Are players being asked to do too much with the way we play and structure?
• Does the surface at PP contribute?

A lot of those questions are impossible to answer from the outside but are exactly the sort of data points we'd need to correctly assess what actions we need to take.

I'm generally not a fan of wholesale change - find competent people and adjust if necessary. If there are issues, can they be identified and addressed without having to move on AR?

I remember asking a Carlton supporting mate are we training the players the wrong way and this was why we were getting so many injuries. This was 20+ years ago.

The injury issues has been an issue for a very long time. The surface at PP could very well be a big culprit.