Hot Topic Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[Aphrodite]

Im over the whole situation, Port asking for way too much

They can keep him.

 

[Aphrodite]

Where's this confirmed, please?

Apparently, nothing confirmed BJ.

Check the Bluemour No Discussion thread.

 

[BlueJet]

Apparently, nothing confirmed.

Check the Bluemour No Discussion thread.

Sorry, misspoke.
Thanks Aph.

 

[Aphrodite]

Sorry, misspoke.
Thanks Aph.

It’s in this thread as well …

Whispers suggesting Houston has said Thanks but NO thanks to NM

 

[HereComesJuddy]

No team is paying two 1st rounders for Houston he is nearing 28, that would be irresponsible list management for any club.

The Gibbs deal unpacked: Crows' smart drafting, the other piece yet to happen

Yet we saw it first hand when Gibbs was playing in the backline plenty and wasn’t AA 2 years in a row

 

[The Bighouse]

Collingwood & GCFC’s pick# 12 shouldn’t be any conversation that’s being had (including John Noble as well).

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Apparently Houston has said no to North.

North would say no to North if they could

 

[reubsblues]

Out of the 3 big names link to us
Patracca is my first preference then SDK
And Houston last as I think Houston type players can be found easier

 

[The Bighouse]

Out of the 3 big names link to us
Patracca is my first preference then SDK
And Houston last as I think Houston type players can be found easier

And probably the most costly in terms of trading in that order.

 

[T2B_]

Trainor is awesome. Plays at my boy's school. Has some real mongrel about him. Would be rapt if we got him.

Nickname.... Megan??

 

[DangerousD]

The thing to realise is that with list management, signing decent-to-big money deals for 4 or 5 or 6 years isn't just about the next year. It's about the 4, 5, 6 years +
By not spending up in the next fortnight might not mean we're just managing the cap and not pushing for a flag. There might be a FA or out-of-contract player in 12 months time that is much better for us to win multiple flags, or keeping the window open for much longer, and going in for say Houston now, who hasn't really been in our plans might alter our ideal management.

Also, we've got 2 superstars coming out of contract in 12 months who we need to re-sign. Keeping them is going to push us towards a premiership a lot more than any player available in the next 2 weeks.

Yeah I agree but your first paragraph is the exact same stuff that was said last year when we didn’t do much, a year we traded out a contracted fisher.

The chat so far is we will trade out our most durable and our most productive small forward and Kennedy who’s under contract.

To me, actions speak louder than any words, so if we trade out these two and we sign a few ready made quality players, then that tells me they were moved on to create a better balanced team.

If they are traded out and we don’t bring anything in of note, then it says to me we are balancing the books, which is what I think happened last year.

We have Weits and TDK to sign next year and both are great players but every club has good players they need to sign and to me it seems a few are able to continue to add to the list whilst we can’t.

I’m projecting a few weeks ahead here and there’s lots to play out, I will always maintain though, clubs with money or $$$$ to spend, will spend it, especially if they are a chance at winning a flag.

 

[BlueTongue]

The Gibbs deal unpacked: Crows' smart drafting, the other piece yet to happen

Yet we saw it first hand when Gibbs was playing in the backline plenty and wasn’t AA 2 years in a row

True but that was way back when contracts actually meant something.

Now it doesn't stop players moving on despite being under contract or clubs mismanaging their cap and putting players up for a Salary dump.

The only difference is that if a player requests a trade, the club usually makes an outrageous demand and cries 'under contract' even though someone like Melbourne it probably suits their agenda to get rid of 6mill from their cap and have picks come back the other way.

 

[macky99]

The Gibbs deal unpacked: Crows' smart drafting, the other piece yet to happen

Yet we saw it first hand when Gibbs was playing in the backline plenty and wasn’t AA 2 years in a row

As l have said it is determined by what the market is willing to pay, not what Port deems his worth.
Most deals are done with compromise from both parties.
Houston is replaceable at Port.
Gibbs also played most of his career with us as a mid fielder aside from his 1st year or so.

At nearing 28 Carlton & North would make their F1st part of the deal, Carlton would add something else eg a 2nd from some deals, it absolutely won't be two 1st rounders.

 

[BlueJet]

Yeah I agree but your first paragraph is the exact same stuff that was said last year when we didn’t do much, a year we traded out a contracted fisher.

The chat so far is we will trade out our most durable and our most productive small forward and Kennedy who’s under contract.

To me, actions speak louder than any words, so if we trade out these two and we sign a few ready made quality players, then that tells me they were moved on to create a better balanced team.

If they are traded out and we don’t bring anything in of note, then it says to me we are balancing the books, which is what I think happened last year.

We have Weits and TDK to sign next year and both are great players but every club has good players they need to sign and to me it seems a few are able to continue to add to the list whilst we can’t.

I’m projecting a few weeks ahead here and there’s lots to play out, I will always maintain though, clubs with money or $$$$ to spend, will spend it, especially if they are a chance at winning a flag.

I think part of the issue is that we've as many players on big salaries as any other club, which does limit flexibility.
TDK taking a sizable step forward this year ahead of requiring a new deal, will certainly sting to a degree too.
None of those moved on will have been on significant money anyway so I suspect it's more about churning the list to secure the right balance.
Geelong has consistently moved on peripheral players in this manner with us being a semi-regular destination for their fring players. (Smedts, Lang & Fogarty)

 

[SurreyBlue]

Collingwood & GCFC’s pick# 12 shouldn’t be any conversation that’s being had (including John Noble as well).

Tom Morris is trying to beat it up by frightening us with Collingwood so called pick that they don’t even have. What a flog.

 

[Benaly28]

If that’s the case thank you but no thank you.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[carlton_99]

Collingwood & GCFC’s pick# 12 shouldn’t be any conversation that’s being had (including John Noble as well).

Don't underestimate the incompetency of the Gold Coast Suns football club

 

[Benaly28]

I don’t know why this specific trade has me so irate, but if we give even a single first round pick for this guy I’m driving my car through the princes park merch store

Can you grab me a scarf on the way through need a new one.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Bighouse]

Tom Morris is trying to beat it up by frightening us with Collingwood so called pick that they don’t even have. What a flog.

John Noble declares he wants to go to the GC. Collingwood laid claim to #12 straight away as the trade.

 

[Aphrodite]

Tom Morris is trying to beat it up by frightening us with Collingwood so called pick that they don’t even have. What a flog.

 

[Blue Reaper]

Because the 5 salaries are staggered so that they aren't getting paid the big $$$ all in the same year. The difference between actual AFL contracts and reported AFL contracts is that very very very few are set amounts/year. So when a reporter say X will earn $8million over 7 seasons, the media and the public go, wow that guys getting $1.15m a year every year for 7 years.
Where as its traditionally done either back ended, front ended or in our case at the moment more like a bell graph. So having each of these bell graphs contracts staggered means in any given year only one or two of the players will actually be receiving the highest earning point of their salary.

They have also all taken under compared to the market value and offers they have received.

Brisbane and other teams definitely have deals like that, some not as many as others, but all have marquee higher earners.
The reason Brisbane, Sydney and Collingwood have been able to manage over the last couple of years is because they have secured academy and father son top end talent who are on locked contracts for their first three years. This has helped them succeed now, but kicks the can down the road. Collingwood is finding it hard to retain some middling best 22 players this year because Daicos is now out of his draftee contract. It's also what has caught up with the Dogs the last couple of years.

This is why refilling from the draft is so important, not only does it refresh your list but it also refreshes your salary cap.
As stated in an earlier post, the difference between Owies, Young, Cunningham and 3 draftees could be close to 1mil in cap space. Obviously have 35 players between 23 and 28 on a list would be ideal, but its simple not possible to keep that many players of AFL standard happy financially and game timewise.

That's the tricky balance of List Management, having enough 1-3 year players to allow you to pay your prime players, and hoping that from those drafted players, a high % go on to being top tier players, as the older ones start to get to the back end of their contracts which are designed to taper off and then a collection of role players who are team driven but happen to not be lured away by other clubs for higher figures.
This is the sustainability model that allows you to stay a competitive team year on year. Getting full club buy in that you will earn fairly throughout your career, earning the most when you are in the age bracket to be delivering the most, but building the confidence of both the younger and older players that everyone will get their lick of the ice cream. Once this becomes ingrained within a clubs DNA you find that players will stay for less with the desire for success that leave for the lucrative deals that other clubs will throw at them.

Some clubs find it very tough, player managers these days are on another planet. They look to get their players taken in the first round contract extensions in excess of $600k+ before they have even played a game. That is another reason why club culture as well as the club have positive relationships with player managers is so important.
(As i mention a while ago in regards to the Martin situation)

Once again to reference Geelong, up until last years tomfoolery, they just got deals done, they didn't haggle to much, they were happy to identify the player they wanted, and do what was required to get the deal done.
That built up repour is not something that is quickly forgotten within the industry.
Although the AFL seems like a massive business, there really isn't that many people involved. So you don't want to burn bridges to often for the sake of making a 'ruthless' point.
Unless there is a very serious point that needs to be made.

Sorry for the long winded reply. Hopefully I've articulated this well enough.

Sorry, probably late to the party, but - again- such a clear and well reasoned explanation. Appreciate your insights 43.

 

[jezza25]

Could we make a play for Colin Jazz-Knee? (UFA)

Do we get 2 players in one ?
Col and Jazny ?

 

[Sheephead]

Surely we are all over SDK right now. GEE have to make a decision. SDK could be collateral damage.

 

[koutaaaaa43]

So if pies get pick 12 this year, are they using it on Houston?? Or they offering this pick which they don’t have and future first?? Good luck to them if they are willing to part with 2 first round picks.

 

[Mondyboy]

Like the majority, I think our first round and an F1 are overs for Houston. I’d also rather get games into Billy Wilson, who was showing more than enough in the VFL before he was injured.

I’m more excited about the idea of buying into the first round with our Future 1st to get our hands on… 2 top 20 picks who directly meet our needs.

I also want to see us invest in Lemmey and Moir. We need to decide whether Lemmey is a forward or a back. We need to start thinking of Moir as a top-22 player.

In other words, I want us to look within rather than go for the easy fix (and it’s not clear Houston would be fixing a huge amount).