Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[DangerousD]

Feel like I’m reading the same posts from two days ago.

We lost out on Shiels. Didn’t cost us. Don’t think it will cost us losing out on Houston either (as much as I rate him as a player). Would rather see Billy Wilson have a break out season.

Whatever the case, can the Houston thing be sorted out tomorrow so we can all move on?

We were rebuilding when we missed on Shiel, I don’t see it as the same situation.

The cost for Shiel was also a lot higher

 

[azlou]

How much sway does a player manager have?
Are teams hesitant to get them offside for the sake of a slightly better deal for them as opposed to players I don’t know.
Is Houston’s manager a big player in the market?

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

We also weren’t that impressive.. what we were producing as ‘second seed’ until the mid-point of the season was a long way from what the good teams were producing in the finals.

We were still second after round 19. And we had a bloody hard draw. Not, to be taken lightly.

 

[DangerousD]

This really is an all out strategy. Collingwood have a massive age gap in their list, and having already brought in 1 HBF on 900k trading that much capital for another is a real win now mentality. Yet how does that look when they need to refresh in a couple of years whilst competing with the compromised Tasmanian drafts?

I like this point and it has taken me back to a scene I enjoy from Gattaca, where Vincent risks death to beat his brother by leaving no energy for the swim back to sure.

His risk pays off and he wins

If it delivers then another flag then Collingwood will be applauded, I like it, they are in the window and are going all in now, I’d like a bit more of this from us.

 

[Pablito]

I like this point and it has taken me back to a scene I enjoy from Gattaca, where Vincent risks death to beat his brother by leaving no energy for the swim back to sure.

His risk pays off and he wins

If it delivers then another flag then Collingwood will be applauded, I like it, they are in the window and are going all in now, I’d like a bit more of this from us.

Good analogy, but if I remember correctly he nearly drowns and has to be saved by his brother...

Also the race isn't a 1 v 1. It's 1 vs 17 in reality.

 

[ferrisb]

I find it bizarre how Hawthorn could actively pursue and chase a contracted player to come join them and then when it comes to trading him in, request WCE to contribute to the contract that Hawthorn knowingly and willingly chose to take on when they chased him, so as to help facilitate the trade.

If I was WCE i would say we want your first pick and you take the entire contract on as you knew all about it when you chased him. If Hawks bulk then Barass plays for WCE next year and Hawks look foolish and amateurish for not being able to do a deal for a player they went out of their way to convince to come to them whilst under contract.

West Coast are trying to rebuild. They would be quite happy to cash in on an a valuable asset.

So yes, Hawks are trying to poach a contracted player. But WCE are hardly a reluctant player here.

It's like you approaching your neighbour to buy his house with a lowball offer after you heard him grumbling that he is desperate to get out of the neighbourhood.

 

[HarryFlashman]

How much sway does a player manager have?
Are teams hesitant to get them offside for the sake of a slightly better deal for them as opposed to players I don’t know.
Is Houston’s manager a big player in the market?

Heaps - Dans manager is Nick Gieschen from Connorsports - think Diacos, Toby Greene, Charlie, Trac, Oliver etc.
Monster company.

Player manager knows what a club is trying to do, has insight on cap, list strategy etc.

They are vital to keep on side, yes they are out for themselves & trying to get max value for their players but u can’t get them to offside.

At any given time they can argue 2 completely different positions - eg
1. u have a limited time in footy, u need to maximize your contract.
2. Longevity and team success can set up your future and lead to long/sustained career incl after footy

Both statements are equally as true but one is saying “take max value” the other is “take unders & work with the team”.

Piss off the managers & they can mess with your list big time given they manage multiple players on your team and who u wish to trade with.

​

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

We also weren’t that impressive.. what we were producing as ‘second seed’ until the mid-point of the season was a long way from what the good teams were producing in the finals.

That's more about Voss and his tactics than adding another HBFer on 850k per year.

 

[ferrisb]

Miss Houston this year I would go after Brayshaw next year!

Is she any good though?

Maid of honour at SOS's daughter's wedding...

 

[swuzzlebubble]

There's a recruitment that would require courage

Or a lack of it

 

[CrippaTheGoat9]

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Pretty bloody excited to see 2-3 top 30 draftees as well as the Campo twins run around in Navy Blue well past Houston’s expiry date tbh

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Pretty bloody excited to see 2-3 top 30 draftees as well as the Campo twins run around in Navy Blue well past Houston’s expiry date tbh

As am I... I just don't want to see Houston in Pies colours while we're at it

 

[charred_fate]

We were still second after round 19. And we had a bloody hard draw. Not, to be taken lightly.

Point stands that outside of the Geelong win, we rarely looked like a clinical team that was going to get the job done come the pointy end.

We had a number of unimpressive wins.

It was all very obvious when watching the top teams when they got serious.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

As am I... I just don't want to see Houston in Pies colours while we're at it

While we bury them for the next 10 years? Why not? We have had a clear strategy and well done to our club for sticking to it.

 

[koutashoulda1_1]

Pies are basically going for 1 more flag before their list implodes as the father time catch up to them. One can argue that its a good strategy... One could also very easily argue its a bad strategy. Imo when you're so reliant on just a few key players to your structure in Nick Daicos, Moore and Degoey it's just a bad idea to be going all in on the next 1-2 years when you know you have a mass of retirements imminent and the list will be forced to rebuild during the Tassie drafts. A disaster waiting to happen.

Funnily enough my connection inside the Pies LM team suggested similar and was desperately hoping the club would head to the draft to refresh the list a bit, but seemed to know his opinion would fall on deaf ears with the new big wig running the show.

That being said, we're also an extremely star reliant team (though quite a bit younger). We saw what can happen when they aren't all operating at near to 100% or a few are struck down with injury in the back end of this season. The wheels fall off and the season can go up in smoke in the blink of an eye.

Bringing in fresh young talent can help smooth over that discrepancy and create a more balanced list if u hit ur picks right (due to the low contracts draftees are held to for 3 years which can allow us to keep overperforming kids on minimal contracts) but adding players like Houston simply make our top end even heavier and almost require a miracle to occur to adequately fill our our lower end depth due to the immense cap pressure it puts on list. There's just not enough money in a salary cap to pay so many stars and maintain valuable depth pieces for a sustained period of time.

Leppitsch is clearly all in on the now, as is McRae... We just need to hope they have some bad luck in their 1-2 year window and then the ass falls out of the list after that. They'll be in strife for years and years if they don't perfectly balance things out over the next couple of off seasons.

There is 0 quality coming through their VFL team. Absolutely none.

With the old boys moving on (Pendles, Sidebotom, Elliot, ... someone else?...) maybe they feel they can afford to buy in FA and trades to fill in the gaps?

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Blue and Silver]

In two to three days when they report "Carlton back in the race" will you be surprised?

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jatz]

Excellent. They get older again, we don't overpay. Win/Win.

 

[DEliades]

I’m sure Crippa and Walshy will be rapt with the player selected at pick 12 when Houston was available

 

[blue healer]

Who is selling the list short? The whole point of my post is that we are right there and just need to tweak a couple of things, fill a couple of gaps. And I don’t see that happening through the draft in a timeframe consistent with the window Cripps creates. Elite ball users is a clear deficiency, and Houston is an elite ball user.

The kids coming through might help address our lack of run a bit but otherwise are unfortunately more of the same. There’s no KPD and no one i’d consider a top level user of the ball.

Again, I’m not saying Houston is the answer if the cost is too high. I’m just saying I don’t think should be blasé about missing the opportunity to improve through trading at this point.

I think few would disagree that we are on the cusp and it would be nice to just be able to fill a couple of gaps, but most on here also agree that our main deficiencies are a quality small forward, a speedy onballer and a genuine KPD.

Which of those are currently available via trade or FA?

While I think Houston would be good for us he doesn't, IMO, help any of those deficiencies. Again my opinion but I think the cost in both $'s and picks isn't justified for a player who is more of a "nice to have" than a necessity. I'd also be a bit concerned that his arrival may compromise the development of younger players like Cowan and Boyd.

I think one of our problems of late is that players get too comfortable here and don't want to leave and we don't want to lose them, we seem to never be trading anyone on the up. Think about our potential return had we put SPS, Dow, O'Brien etc on the trade table after two years instead of waiting til they were worth virtually zip.

As an example, when we were trying to land Papley I suggested that we offer Cuningham as part of the deal which was widely laughed at here. I have no idea whether the Swans would have gone for it but if successful how much better would we be now?

If those we need aren't available ATM i'm all in on going to the draft with the strongest hand possible,

 

[Blue__Balls]

I like this point and it has taken me back to a scene I enjoy from Gattaca, where Vincent risks death to beat his brother by leaving no energy for the swim back to sure.

His risk pays off and he wins

If it delivers then another flag then Collingwood will be applauded, I like it, they are in the window and are going all in now, I’d like a bit more of this from us.

Reckon their theory is that if they can be top 4 when they hit that point, they can trade off ladder position and the size of the club to target free agents.

Could pay dividends, sure, but if it doesn't then they plummet at the worst possible time.

 

[ferrisb]

I'm happy to keep Young and delist S.Durdin personally. Same outcome list spot wise but Young a far more reliable player

I would get rid of both and replace with Ethan Phillips and/or similar state league player.

I think we keep borderline players for far too long and actually think this is a case of better the devil you don't know. I'd rather take a punt on an unknown quantity than hang on to one we know is not good enough and/or perpetually injured.

Young has two years left on his contract. I suspect the club would have cut him if not for that. That's why we shopped him, to see if we could get him off our books.

S Durdin would be the exact player we are after, if he was fit. But he isn't. Oscar Macdonald all over again.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

I’m sure Crippa and Walshy will be rapt with the player selected at pick 12 when Houston was available

Bailey Smith?

 

[Sector 7G]

I like this point and it has taken me back to a scene I enjoy from Gattaca, where Vincent risks death to beat his brother by leaving no energy for the swim back to sure.

His risk pays off and he wins

If it delivers then another flag then Collingwood will be applauded, I like it, they are in the window and are going all in now, I’d like a bit more of this from us.

It could work, but more likely to be a Mitchell/O'Meara/Winfield situation at the Hawks or Taranto/Hopper at the Tiger. that sets the club back 3 years

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

I think few would disagree that we are on the cusp and it would be nice to just be able to fill a couple of gaps, but most on here also agree that our main deficiencies are a quality small forward, a speedy onballer and a genuine KPD.

Which of those are currently available via trade or FA?

While I think Houston would be good for us he doesn't, IMO, help any of those deficiencies. Again my opinion but I think the cost in both $'s and picks isn't justified for a player who is more of a "nice to have" than a necessity. I'd also be a bit concerned that his arrival may compromise the development of younger players like Cowan and Boyd.

I think one of our problems of late is that players get too comfortable here and don't want to leave and we don't want to lose them, we seem to never be trading anyone on the up. Think about our potential return had we put SPS, Dow, O'Brien etc on the trade table after two years instead of waiting til they were worth virtually zip.

As an example, when we were trying to land Papley I suggested that we offer Cuningham as part of the deal which was widely laughed at here. I have no idea whether the Swans would have gone for it but if successful how much better would we be now?

If those we need aren't available ATM i'm all in on going to the draft with the strongest hand possible,

He's an elite ball user, end of argument.