Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[Jacks Seething Rage]

Cherry picking, we used the pick we got off Geelong for Lachie Henderson on Charlie Curnow, dual (so far) Coleman Medallist.

Make a 2nd effort at reading the thread

 

[Opium]

Yep, Owies had a good season. Punting him after a 2 quarter glimpse of Moir is nonsensical. Reminds a little of the desperation on here to boot Casboult. Too much focus on what they don't bring, not enough on what they do bring.

This is what happens as a result of poor list management. The zac Williams contract and more recently giving pittonet, Cottrell and Durdin multiple years has come at a cost for others.

 

[The Bighouse]

Owies has also met with GC and WC.

I can’t believe we’re happy to offload him but keep the likes of Durdin. Makes no sense.

Contracts & $$’s.
A bit of pace I suspect too.

 

[pressurepoint]

3 way:

GCS: Recieve Pick 11
Port: Recieves Lukosius
Carlton: Recieves Houston and Rosas Jnr

What extra pieces would even up this trade

 

[BolshyAust]

Cherry picking, we used the pick we got off Geelong for Lachie Henderson on Charlie Curnow, dual (so far) Coleman Medallist.

Fairly sure that that pick was donated by Brisbane, and its coach, in the Fevola trade, not Geelong

 

[DangerousD]

Go back and have a look at Zac Williams thread in the blues player and Carlton reserves category and you will notice two things.

1) There was not one poster that thought that his recruitment was anything but great at the time. Plenty of respected posters were delighted. Seems that there is now plenty of retrospective recruiters who now know better.

2) The salary figures that were mentioned by many in that thread at the time have now been superseded by all and sundry. I can't imagine as to how nobody seemed to know what his salary was when he signed on but everyone thinks that they know now.

Number 1, you’re bang on, the thread is full of excitement and praise for his recruitment, i was very happy we got him, it hasn’t worked out.

Number 2. This is flat out wrong, you type in Zac Williams contract in to google and the articles from the time of him signing that pop up all say the same thing, 6 years at $800,000-$900,000, the same figures that are thrown around now.

 

[Arr0w]

Williams is no where near 800-900 K a year

 

[DirtyLeeds]

Fairly sure that that pick was donated by Brisbane, and its coach, in the Fevola trade, not Geelong

Henderson came in for the Fev trade, Henderson went out for the pick that was ultimately Charlie, at least four years apart

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Williams is no where near 800-900 K a year

I’ll bet my arse he got that for at least one year.

Martin too.

That’s a lot of dough.

 

[Arr0w]

I’ll bet my arse he got that for at least one year.

Martin too.

That’s a lot of dough.

Martin certainly had his contract front ended, but took a big hit with covid restructuring

Williams, like many players, has incentive clauses, which I doubt he has triggered ever

Admittedly, neither have delivered based on likely salary

 

[The Bighouse]

Owies is our most productive small forward 100%.

But he’s not moving the needle.

I personally don’t really rate Motlop but I can’t see why he can’t give the same output as Owies has.

We need more X Factor up forward.

Look at Brisbane.

Rayner, Lohmann, Ah Chee and Cameron.

Also don’t see it with Jesse, would be trying to upgrade a pick with him involved > open up another spot for some other targets.

Moir, Kemp, ZW, EH have their own X-factor + Charlie & then H’s mobility. Inconsistency amongst however.

 

[PezzDogg95]

The Martin thing is pretty simple.

Were we ever going to offer him a contract?

The answer is no.

Anything else aside from delisting him and exploring his options, is game playing. And if you want to stuff players around, just in the odd chance we get a late pick, then I am sorry but that is ridiculous. You would end up doing more damage to our reputation than would be worth any token pick.

I think the interest in Martin is perhaps a tad misleading.

I don't think he takes a senior list spot, but will end up as a rookie draft or SSP rookie signing, which means no team would trade for him given age and health.

The interest in him is conditional to the much lower cost of a rookie list contract.

Senior list spots and draft picks are valued much higher this year

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Fairly sure that that pick was donated by Brisbane, and its coach, in the Fevola trade, not Geelong

He's saying the pick we got off Geelong for Lachie Henderson...

Was pick 8 iirc.

Hendo came to us as a Lions player along with pick 12 which we used on Kane Lucas lol...

 

[The Bighouse]

He's saying the pick we got off Geelong for Lachie Henderson...

Was pick 8 iirc.

Hendo came to us as a Lions player along with pick 12 which we used on Kane Lucas lol...

Kane Lucas was very good in his 1st season…

Interesting that he was drafted the same year as Mitch Duncan, who is still running around (though had some major f’up’s on the w/end).

 

[Garters]

Owies is our most productive small forward 100%.

But he’s not moving the needle.

I personally don’t really rate Motlop but I can’t see why he can’t give the same output as Owies has.

We need more X Factor up forward.

Look at Brisbane.

Rayner, Lohmann, Ah Chee and Cameron.

Irony of that being Brisbane are casing him out to move up there.
Relative to alternatives the issue is he actually is the only small forward that is currently moving the needle.
Interesting to know the inner workings / thinking around our small forward list strategy for next year.

On a side note he has kicked more goals this season than Rankine, Rachelle, Cody Weightman, Zac Bailey, Ginnivan, Hill (Collingwood) to name a few 'bigger' names. You can only go on exposed form and on that front he has been strong.

If he is chasing much bigger money and more years than we are prepared /can offer and he can get it elsewhere good luck to him, which is probably the case. But I don't think the small forward he has become can be completely dismissed.

 

[Gointocarlton]

3 way:

GCS: Recieve Pick 11
Port: Recieves Lukosius
Carlton: Recieves Houston and Rosas Jnr

What extra pieces would even up this trade

No chance we will use our first rnd pick in any deal like that. Its clear we want to use it in the draft (unless its part of a deal for SDK or Petracca).

 

[Accidental genius]

But we love Fog … even though he can’t kick over a jam tin …

And owies stubs his toe

 

[passmark]

Lukosius chooses Port.
This bodes well in getting Houston?

Beautiful kick and seems a good player but I don’t see enough GC games to say much but is he a big occasion player. Can’t say I remember him being a difference maker in tough games.

 

[DangerousD]

I think that's a different issue. My point is about movement of uncontracted players.

The issue of movement of contracted players is also worth examining. Should players sign a contract with a club, or with the AFL, meaning they can be traded at any time without power of veto? I doubt the players association would be happy with that but it would make for a much more interesting trade period, and allow clubs to get what they need more readily.

If the AFL proposed both changes to the players (free choice of movement for uncontracted players, but trading without veto for contracted players) I wonder if they would accept that.

How do you think it would play out though?
Take our big players, Charlie, Harry and others, why would they commit long term to us knowing we can trade them somewhere they’re not interested in going?

Charlie turns and goes I want two years at 1.5M because a long term deal doesn’t actually offer any stability.

Then from another side, we want a player from WA who’s a star but doesn’t want to leave WA, has no desire to play for us but we trade top value picks and deal with WC and they send him to us.

What standard are we expecting from someone who doesn’t want to play for us?

Why is there an obsession with being able to control a players movement? What sports allow this? As far as I know, not many.

I liked your trade period idea, but again, why should a club be entitled to anything for an in contracted player? I’m not aware of other codes who do this.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Kane Lucas was very good in his 1st season…

Who cares, he was a flop.

Interesting that he was drafted the same year as Mitch Duncan, who is still running around (though had some major f’up’s on the w/end).

That is quite interesting actually...

 

[DangerousD]

Williams is no where near 800-900 K a year

Do you think the dozens of articles at the time of him signing are all made up?

What was the threshold for band 1 when he arrived?

If lots of media have been reporting the same thing for years, don’t you think that someone from the AFL or GWS could have leaked those figures?

 

[WalshYouLegend]

Okay, this is ridiculous.

I work hard and long hours and when I get home, after dinner and with my red wine, I sit down and read through BF. I expect rumours. Lift people.

I’m so sorry. I know I have let you down.

To make up I bring you a fresh rumour now….. Rumour on the street has it that Katy Perry is set to play 5 songs at the G this Saturday. 4 will be classic hits. 1 new. Out of the 4 classics, Roar will not be one of them as that would be unfair to the Swans. Fev told her to sing it anyway. We’ll see if she defies the AFL wishes.

If anyone asks, you didn’t hear it from me.

 

[Accidental genius]

When you have Butters, Rozee, JHF, Drew, Wines and Boak over the last few years it doesn't leave a lot of CBA minutes for others.

Boak kicked it directly to an oppo 3-4 times against swannies …cooked

 

[Manhattanite]

3 way:

GCS: Recieve Pick 11
Port: Recieves Lukosius
Carlton: Recieves Houston and Rosas Jnr

What extra pieces would even up this trade

Lukosius would only be worth a second rounder now and Rosas not even a third rounder so GCS are getting too much there and Port too little.

Plus sounds like Carlton intends to hold onto Pick 11 so will be using other picks to get Houston in (our second, future first, what we get for Kennedy, Owies etc)

Houston is worth a late first rounder so we have to ensure we are offering enough compared to what North could offer (doesn’t have to be better but close enough) - which would probably be an exchange of future firsts


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[carlton_99]

Boak kicked it directly to an oppo 3-4 times against swannies …cooked

Yeh this year he has fallen off a bit but he has been a pretty core part of that midfield group over the last few years.

On Houston, I am still on the fence on him as an acquisition and am waiting to see what the ultimate cost will be for him (for whoever gets him). But, when I said he could be a POD in the midfield I don't think he would be a full time midfielder - but another rotation would be really helpful. He would sit behind Cripps, Hewett, Walsh, Cerra for sure and would be next in line with E.Hollands. I think those six could be a deadly combination that is quite balanced in terms of defensive/offensive ability and contested/spread ability.