Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[Jacks Seething Rage]

Cherry picking, we used the pick we got off Geelong for Lachie Henderson on Charlie Curnow, dual (so far) Coleman Medallist.

Make a 2nd effort at reading the thread

 

[Opium]

Yep, Owies had a good season. Punting him after a 2 quarter glimpse of Moir is nonsensical. Reminds a little of the desperation on here to boot Casboult. Too much focus on what they don't bring, not enough on what they do bring.

This is what happens as a result of poor list management. The zac Williams contract and more recently giving pittonet, Cottrell and Durdin multiple years has come at a cost for others.

 

[The Bighouse]

Owies has also met with GC and WC.

I can’t believe we’re happy to offload him but keep the likes of Durdin. Makes no sense.

Contracts & $$’s.
A bit of pace I suspect too.

 

[BolshyAust]

Cherry picking, we used the pick we got off Geelong for Lachie Henderson on Charlie Curnow, dual (so far) Coleman Medallist.

Fairly sure that that pick was donated by Brisbane, and its coach, in the Fevola trade, not Geelong

 

[DangerousD]

Go back and have a look at Zac Williams thread in the blues player and Carlton reserves category and you will notice two things.

1) There was not one poster that thought that his recruitment was anything but great at the time. Plenty of respected posters were delighted. Seems that there is now plenty of retrospective recruiters who now know better.

2) The salary figures that were mentioned by many in that thread at the time have now been superseded by all and sundry. I can't imagine as to how nobody seemed to know what his salary was when he signed on but everyone thinks that they know now.

Number 1, you’re bang on, the thread is full of excitement and praise for his recruitment, i was very happy we got him, it hasn’t worked out.

Number 2. This is flat out wrong, you type in Zac Williams contract in to google and the articles from the time of him signing that pop up all say the same thing, 6 years at $800,000-$900,000, the same figures that are thrown around now.

 

[Arr0w]

Williams is no where near 800-900 K a year

 

[DirtyLeeds]

Fairly sure that that pick was donated by Brisbane, and its coach, in the Fevola trade, not Geelong

Henderson came in for the Fev trade, Henderson went out for the pick that was ultimately Charlie, at least four years apart

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Williams is no where near 800-900 K a year

I’ll bet my arse he got that for at least one year.

Martin too.

That’s a lot of dough.

 

[Arr0w]

I’ll bet my arse he got that for at least one year.

Martin too.

That’s a lot of dough.

Martin certainly had his contract front ended, but took a big hit with covid restructuring

Williams, like many players, has incentive clauses, which I doubt he has triggered ever

Admittedly, neither have delivered based on likely salary

 

[The Bighouse]

Owies is our most productive small forward 100%.

But he’s not moving the needle.

I personally don’t really rate Motlop but I can’t see why he can’t give the same output as Owies has.

We need more X Factor up forward.

Look at Brisbane.

Rayner, Lohmann, Ah Chee and Cameron.

Also don’t see it with Jesse, would be trying to upgrade a pick with him involved > open up another spot for some other targets.

Moir, Kemp, ZW, EH have their own X-factor + Charlie & then H’s mobility. Inconsistency amongst however.

 

[PezzDogg95]

The Martin thing is pretty simple.

Were we ever going to offer him a contract?

The answer is no.

Anything else aside from delisting him and exploring his options, is game playing. And if you want to stuff players around, just in the odd chance we get a late pick, then I am sorry but that is ridiculous. You would end up doing more damage to our reputation than would be worth any token pick.

I think the interest in Martin is perhaps a tad misleading.

I don't think he takes a senior list spot, but will end up as a rookie draft or SSP rookie signing, which means no team would trade for him given age and health.

The interest in him is conditional to the much lower cost of a rookie list contract.

Senior list spots and draft picks are valued much higher this year

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Fairly sure that that pick was donated by Brisbane, and its coach, in the Fevola trade, not Geelong

He's saying the pick we got off Geelong for Lachie Henderson...

Was pick 8 iirc.

Hendo came to us as a Lions player along with pick 12 which we used on Kane Lucas lol...

 

[The Bighouse]

He's saying the pick we got off Geelong for Lachie Henderson...

Was pick 8 iirc.

Hendo came to us as a Lions player along with pick 12 which we used on Kane Lucas lol...

Kane Lucas was very good in his 1st season…

Interesting that he was drafted the same year as Mitch Duncan, who is still running around (though had some major f’up’s on the w/end).

 

[Garters]

Owies is our most productive small forward 100%.

But he’s not moving the needle.

I personally don’t really rate Motlop but I can’t see why he can’t give the same output as Owies has.

We need more X Factor up forward.

Look at Brisbane.

Rayner, Lohmann, Ah Chee and Cameron.

Irony of that being Brisbane are casing him out to move up there.
Relative to alternatives the issue is he actually is the only small forward that is currently moving the needle.
Interesting to know the inner workings / thinking around our small forward list strategy for next year.

On a side note he has kicked more goals this season than Rankine, Rachelle, Cody Weightman, Zac Bailey, Ginnivan, Hill (Collingwood) to name a few 'bigger' names. You can only go on exposed form and on that front he has been strong.

If he is chasing much bigger money and more years than we are prepared /can offer and he can get it elsewhere good luck to him, which is probably the case. But I don't think the small forward he has become can be completely dismissed.

 

[Accidental genius]

But we love Fog … even though he can’t kick over a jam tin …

And owies stubs his toe

 

[passmark]

Lukosius chooses Port.
This bodes well in getting Houston?

Beautiful kick and seems a good player but I don’t see enough GC games to say much but is he a big occasion player. Can’t say I remember him being a difference maker in tough games.

 

[DangerousD]

I think that's a different issue. My point is about movement of uncontracted players.

The issue of movement of contracted players is also worth examining. Should players sign a contract with a club, or with the AFL, meaning they can be traded at any time without power of veto? I doubt the players association would be happy with that but it would make for a much more interesting trade period, and allow clubs to get what they need more readily.

If the AFL proposed both changes to the players (free choice of movement for uncontracted players, but trading without veto for contracted players) I wonder if they would accept that.

How do you think it would play out though?
Take our big players, Charlie, Harry and others, why would they commit long term to us knowing we can trade them somewhere they’re not interested in going?

Charlie turns and goes I want two years at 1.5M because a long term deal doesn’t actually offer any stability.

Then from another side, we want a player from WA who’s a star but doesn’t want to leave WA, has no desire to play for us but we trade top value picks and deal with WC and they send him to us.

What standard are we expecting from someone who doesn’t want to play for us?

Why is there an obsession with being able to control a players movement? What sports allow this? As far as I know, not many.

I liked your trade period idea, but again, why should a club be entitled to anything for an in contracted player? I’m not aware of other codes who do this.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Kane Lucas was very good in his 1st season…

Who cares, he was a flop.

Interesting that he was drafted the same year as Mitch Duncan, who is still running around (though had some major f’up’s on the w/end).

That is quite interesting actually...

 

[DangerousD]

Williams is no where near 800-900 K a year

Do you think the dozens of articles at the time of him signing are all made up?

What was the threshold for band 1 when he arrived?

If lots of media have been reporting the same thing for years, don’t you think that someone from the AFL or GWS could have leaked those figures?

 

[WalshYouLegend]

Okay, this is ridiculous.

I work hard and long hours and when I get home, after dinner and with my red wine, I sit down and read through BF. I expect rumours. Lift people.

I’m so sorry. I know I have let you down.

To make up I bring you a fresh rumour now….. Rumour on the street has it that Katy Perry is set to play 5 songs at the G this Saturday. 4 will be classic hits. 1 new. Out of the 4 classics, Roar will not be one of them as that would be unfair to the Swans. Fev told her to sing it anyway. We’ll see if she defies the AFL wishes.

If anyone asks, you didn’t hear it from me.

 

[Accidental genius]

When you have Butters, Rozee, JHF, Drew, Wines and Boak over the last few years it doesn't leave a lot of CBA minutes for others.

Boak kicked it directly to an oppo 3-4 times against swannies …cooked

 

[carlton_99]

Boak kicked it directly to an oppo 3-4 times against swannies …cooked

Yeh this year he has fallen off a bit but he has been a pretty core part of that midfield group over the last few years.

On Houston, I am still on the fence on him as an acquisition and am waiting to see what the ultimate cost will be for him (for whoever gets him). But, when I said he could be a POD in the midfield I don't think he would be a full time midfielder - but another rotation would be really helpful. He would sit behind Cripps, Hewett, Walsh, Cerra for sure and would be next in line with E.Hollands. I think those six could be a deadly combination that is quite balanced in terms of defensive/offensive ability and contested/spread ability.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Didn’t you read that Petracca and Houston are coming to the blues?!?

Butters and Houston!!

 

[Forty3]

Easy
His contract expires October 31 I believe. Weigh up the option of offering him 1 year (which he wouldn't like) on minimum coin and then tell him he can explore a trade if he wishes, just like Owies
Even a late 3rd rounder (believe me, the 60th best player currently wanting to play AFL may be a gemstone) would have been good either to trade or draft
We should not have ceded to his request to delist...we have given him a truckload of money for lying down on a physios bed

It's really pretty simple, whilst it might annoy some people on this board as it doesn't fit in with their cut throat narrative, but we did somewhat as a gesture of goodwill.

Yes he came across on a "big contract", although I would dispute that as his average annual salary was just a tick under $600k per season when he signed.
Heavily front loaded so we could get him in the preseason draft, was meant to earn 1mil in that first season, but lost out on a little over 300k due to covid. So he was on around $540k, about 100k above the average wage of an AFL player.

He had zero luck whilst at our club fitness wise, and despite what some people say, it wasn't from lack of professionalism.

We could have offered him a base contract that he would reject, then have gone to war for a 4th round draft pick, squabbled and made life difficult, maybe been offered a same round pick upgrade in the 4th or a future 4th pick which would no longer of had DIV points attached.

Then if all that failed, he could just wait until the end of final list lodgments, no longer be bound to the club, and end up at another team as an SSP. The club would also have to pay him an amount of money during the period that he is uncontracted but not delisted.

Given we were not going to offer him a contract that would have seen him stay, and given that his draft value is as close to zero as one can imagine, also taking into account that grace in which he took a pretty decent pay cut from his original contract (that was prior to the lack of games he actually played). It seems like a fair thing to do.

On top of all that, he is managed by TGI, and you don't want to piss them off.

 

[jezzajay]

View attachment 2121980

Injury prone…this is the way.