Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[Cringle]

You can't? Really?

If Motlop ever kicks 30+ goals in a season I'll eat my hat.

I don't think it's far fetched to think a current 20 year old fulltime small forward has enough natural progression to average 1.4 goals a game in his 4th (?) season.

Uninterrupted preseason - not really unheard of.

 

[bourbons]

I don't think it's far fetched to think a current 20 year old fulltime small forward has enough natural progression to average 1.4 goals a game in his 4th (?) season.

Uninterrupted preseason - not really unheard of.

I guess I'd quibble with the full time part - I don't think he's AFL standard, absolutely should have not gotten the games he did this year on form. Big chance to be delisted at the end of next year imo.

Again, hope I'm very wrong.

 

[BIuebagger]

It’s one of the main problems with our forward line for our smalls; positioning around contest in F50 especially when Charlie and Harry crash a contest and the ball spills. Motlop and Durdin really need to work on their craft moving forward. They have talent, and both can do some pretty slick stuff when it comes off, but not being able to impact a ground ball and crumb when it spills to the ground is a major worry. They don’t need to be both kicking 30+ in a season if they co exist together.

Owies is the only one who does it okay-ish and more consistently, and even then he’s more a player who I think works best when working up the ground and uses his field kicking to advantage for the deeper forwards. Not a solution to the problem mentioned above.

With Owies looking to be offloaded, I think we keep giving these two the opportunities, but ultimately I think we need to improve and upgrade at least one of them within the next 1-2 years if we are a chance for a flag. I feel Motlop can make it if he wants it enough. Same argument for our half forwards, need to upgrade and bring in someone prolific.

 

[AndyNicka]

I guess I'd quibble with the full time part - I don't think he's AFL standard, absolutely should have not gotten the games he did this year on form. Big chance to be delisted at the end of next year imo.

Again, hope I'm very wrong.

I'm not seeing it that way. I see a young player who lost continuity with his body and therefore lost confidence.

He kicked 24 goals from 21 games as a 19 year old last season so I see an AFL quality player there.

In saying that, this pre-season is massive for him. If he can get his body right he may just surprise a few..

 

[DirkDiggler]

He must have done something to Voss that has really pissed him off otherwise it doesn't make any sense at all to off load the highest crumbing goal kicker we have.

Madness ?????????

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Not a crumbing forward

 

[DangerousD]

I’m not advocating for trading contracted players against their will, just musing as to what that would look like.

I think the main reason a player might sign a longer term agreement in that scenario is to lock in their salary (protects them in the event of injury, loss of form etc). This might make them harder to trade as other clubs may not want to accommodate their salary, therefore giving them greater likelihood of staying at the same club.

I think the AFL is a different beast to leagues like the NBA and Major League Baseball. Team chemistry is such a significant factor in success that I don’t think clubs would necessarily go nuclear and disrupt things that often. It’s more about finding the 1-2 critical missing pieces to bring balance to your team, or cover positions that have been decimated by injury.

If another club genuinely wanted you, they’d find a way to make you feel comfortable on arrival. The worst scenario for a player would be to be sent to a club as a “salary dump”. A club with room in their salary cap would take you in a trade to improve their draft hand but not to play you in the 1s.

As I say, the Player’s Association would be very unlikely to allow such a change, unless they potentially had greater freedom of movement when uncontracted, and another substantial increase in the salary cap.

Why should club’s be compensated when a player leaves?
Well in these scenarios, if you had a number of players who could leave when uncontracted, it might give you move cap space to attract other players, but if you couldn’t attract other players, and you were just left with a standard set of draft picks, that would be cause for absolute despair for that club and their supporters.

If you at least received compensation in the form of draft points when uncontracted players left, you’d end up with a much stronger hand at the draft which is cause for optimism in the future, both in on field performance but also for trade capital.

The other good natural equaliser is that if you lose some uncontracted players but sign others to take their place, your draft hand would be minimally affected.


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As a compromise i have thought an easy thing to implement would be.

If a contracted player wanted to leave and they nominate a club, then their current club could field offers from all clubs in that state and that would form the basis of the cost the preferred club needs to pay.

It would be annoying for clubs to have players mid contract want to leave to back home, yet only nominate one club from the home state.

Host clubs can also play a role here, stop accomodating the players who want to leave, i can only think of a few examples of LM refusing to trade, Gibbs, Dunkley, Okeefe, Papley, Thornton, Danniher, I’m sure there’s others, i think clubs are whinging too much, if a contracted players wants out, extract max value or keep them.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Not a crumbing forward

Is Tom Papley a crumbing forward?

 

[TrueQldBlue]

Not a crumbing forward

Ok a forward then....geeze....
Not really the point I was making...

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[DangerousD]

Not that this would be any suprise the numbers reported on salaries are never accurate.

Remember saints were offering huge money for weitering. From memory $1.6m or something well when I spoke to people they said the number was no where near that.

I know the media and people love spreading the mayo to sell a story or get clicks but our offer to Williams wasn’t a rumored offer like the Weitering one, we had to submit the offer to the AFL for FA compensation, the offer was then sent to GWS to match or decline, which they declined, they then got band 1.

Lots of eyes would have seen this offer across the two clubs and the AFL, so i see it as having more accuracy than pure speculation.

Not idea what the trigger for band 1 was at the time though.

 

[katmanblue]

Largely agree with the rest of you post but just on this point - do they? I would have said both are woeful at getting to the right crumbing spot with any regularity.

Is that IQ or fitness? I'm not sure but I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt.

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[DangerousD]

Would have to be some kind of turnaround to even get to 20+, looks a shell of that 2nd year player currently.

Seeing as though Jesse kicked 6 goals in his 7 matches, in what was a terrible season for him, why would it need to be any sort of turnaround for him to get to 20?

 

[katmanblue]

It’s one of the main problems with our forward line for our smalls; positioning around contest in F50 especially when Charlie and Harry crash a contest and the ball spills. Motlop and Durdin really need to work on their craft moving forward. They have talent, and both can do some pretty slick stuff when it comes off, but not being able to impact a ground ball and crumb when it spills to the ground is a major worry. They don’t need to be both kicking 30+ in a season if they co exist together.

Owies is the only one who does it okay-ish and more consistently, and even then he’s more a player who I think works best when working up the ground and uses his field kicking to advantage for the deeper forwards. Not a solution to the problem mentioned above.

With Owies looking to be offloaded, I think we keep giving these two the opportunities, but ultimately I think we need to improve and upgrade at least one of them within the next 1-2 years if we are a chance for a flag. I feel Motlop can make it if he wants it enough. Same argument for our half forwards, need to upgrade and bring in someone prolific.

Opposition defenders have no fear when they are around.

If you were a defender, when the ball hits the deck, who'd you rather defend Motlop or Switkowski?

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[SkyhorseTamer]

Who cares what his size or shape is - he gets the job done!

Does he? How's he go against good teams? Set the top 8 and see

 

[The Bighouse]

Who cares, he was a flop.



That is quite interesting actually...

I was at a game and with someone that knew this draft & WA players well, and their opinion was that we ruined Lucas.

 

[Blue since 72]

Doubtful that ever happens though, fair sample size now.

Whats the most number of games he's ever managed in a season with us anyone know?

17

 

[bourbons]

Seeing as though Jesse kicked 6 goals in his 7 matches, in what was a terrible season for him, why would it need to be any sort of turnaround for him to get to 20?

4 of those 6 goals vs North and West Coast.

1 goal from 4 matches vs actual footy teams (or 2 from 5 depending if you count St Kilda)

 

[The Bighouse]

I know the media and people love spreading the mayo to sell a story or get clicks but our offer to Williams wasn’t a rumored offer like the Weitering one, we had to submit the offer to the AFL for FA compensation, the offer was then sent to GWS to match or decline, which they declined, they then got band 1.

Lots of eyes would have seen this offer across the two clubs and the AFL, so i see it as having more accuracy than pure speculation.

Not idea what the trigger for band 1 was at the time though.

ZW was around the $750K mark IIRC but there would have been incentives to boost, which you’d think haven’t been met.

If he continues to play AFL, it’ll be more for the love vs big money (unless he becomes the best small forward in the game in ‘25 & ‘26 and consistently digs in at every contest).

 

[JJBagger]

4 of those 6 goals vs North and West Coast.

1 goal from 4 matches vs actual footy teams (or 2 from 5 depending if you count St Kilda)

And Owies kicked 9 goals in 9 games against teams that finished in the 8, and plenty want to keep him?

 

[VainGlorious]

If Motlop ever kicks 30+ goals in a season I'll eat my hat.

Not sure My Hat would enjoy that if I’m being honest.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

I guess I'd quibble with the full time part - I don't think he's AFL standard, absolutely should have not gotten the games he did this year on form. Big chance to be delisted at the end of next year imo.

Again, hope I'm very wrong.

Just confirming...this second year player here...you don't see AFL standard?

 

[bourbons]

And Owies kicked 9 goals in 9 games against teams that finished in the 8, and plenty want to keep him?

I mean... yes, thats clearly a much better record than Motlop's?

1.0 goals per game vs 0.33 goals per game vs top 8 teams

 

[jpfalvo]

ZW was around the $750K mark IIRC but there would have been incentives to boost, which you’d think haven’t been met.

If he continues to play AFL, it’ll be more for the love vs big money (unless he becomes the best small forward in the game in ‘25 & ‘26 and consistently digs in at every contest).

ZacW is still under contract

So he will be playing under the 750k mark, whether he loves it or not

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[Ezayyak]

Motlop's issue he isn't a natural athlete so when he cops a long term injury it is difficult for him to build his aerobic fitness.

Having said that, Motlop in 2023 performed quite well and kicked quite a few clutch goals throughout the year. Against GC when which ignited our comeback to make the finals, his goals against Melbourne just to name a few. You can't teach players that. You either have it or you don't.

Give him a full pre-season and I expect the results to show.

 

[bourbons]

Just confirming...this second year player here...you don't see AFL standard?

Few highlights vs North there

And quite a few where he just gets a gimme handball off other blokes' hard work, or it comes to him off a broken play (had forgotten that one where Charlie kicks into the man on the mark vs Sydney, oh boy ), not a whole lot there off his own boot.

Even that goal in the semi vs Melbourne, you've still gotta kick them I know and it was a great clutch goal but he was cheating so far forward of the contest it wasn't funny, hope he bought Curnow (the tackle) and Cotts (the gather and handball) a beer or 2.

End of the day, yeah I guess he was AFL standard in '23 but nowhere near it in '24. I remain unconvinced he'll make it long term.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Just confirming...this second year player here...you don't see AFL standard?

What about the half volley pick up at full tilt by Durds at the 1:35 mark, followed by the pinpoint pass to Acres.

That's what we want to see more of from our small forwards in 2025.